North Tustin/Santa Ana

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Kids know what is negative and exclude them from the drawing. I googled "kids drawing house" and I could not find a single one with a garage. Then I added garage to my search and no kids drawings came up.



From my research Asians and Pacific Islanders love garages at the front. I wonder kids from this ethnicity draw houses with garages. My daughter when she was 5 she drew houses with rotated chimneys.



I wondered why many children include the chimneys in their drawings but consistently exclude the garage?
 
another one. but who wants to live on euclid ave in ontario despite the beautiful trees?



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Ontario/1122-N-Euclid-Ave-91762/home/4017511">1122 N Euclid Ave Ontario</a>



<img src="http://media.cdn-redfin.com/photo/45/bigphoto/303/C09041303_0.jpg" alt="" />
 
[quote author="ABC123" date=1241073244]a beautiful house in an area that doesn't have a great reputation



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Pomona/844-Hillcrest-Dr-91768/home/7907706">844 Hillcrest Dr Pomona, CA</a>



<img src="http://media.cdn-redfin.com/photo/45/bigphoto/260/C08160260_4.jpg" alt="" /></blockquote>


This is a very nice house and too bad that the fairground proximity ruined this precious neighborhood. Nice furnishing inside too. The biggest gamble was when government decided to put a freeway and a fairground next to a nice neighborhood.



You just redeemed your IHB standing by finally posting a picture of merit.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1241073370]So your point is that bkshopr knows just as much as a 5 year old?



<runs from the fury of a Triad></blockquote>


Children are intuitive and can recognize aesthetics from a very early age. Did you know an infant will stare at a beautiful face longer than one that is not beautiful by most standards? Even a five year old who has only grown up around front-loaded garages, considers this drawing of a traditional house to be cosmetically superior. Sometimes as adults, we lose our common sense. Bk has not lost his and that is why he's successful at what he does.
 
[quote author="ABC123" date=1241073566]another one. but who wants to live on euclid ave in ontario despite the beautiful trees?



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Ontario/1122-N-Euclid-Ave-91762/home/4017511">1122 N Euclid Ave Ontario</a>



<img src="http://media.cdn-redfin.com/photo/45/bigphoto/303/C09041303_0.jpg" alt="" /></blockquote>


Upland was once a nice neighborhood and Euclid was its blvd. Houses were nice until the city turned Euclid into a busy street. I was telling Graph last Sat that nice homes on busy street eventually get neglected and loses its pride of ownership.



That is another subject of environmental psychology and defensible space.
 
Hehe... I think bkshopr is missing ABC's point.



A frontal garage has little to do with "highly sought after" houses or neighborhoods. As you can see... even the bad areas have "aesthetically pleasing" designs.



I think you have more evidence based on 5-year old kid drawings.
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1241074274][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1241073370]So your point is that bkshopr knows just as much as a 5 year old?



<runs from the fury of a Triad></blockquote>


Children are intuitive and can recognize aesthetics from a very early age. Did you know an infant will stare at a beautiful face longer than one that is not beautiful by most standards? Even a five year old who has only grown up around front-loaded garages, considers this drawing of a traditional house to be cosmetically superior. Sometimes as adults, we lose our common sense. Bk has not lost his and that is why he's successful at what he does.</blockquote>
Or could it be that most books kids look at have pictures of just traditional houses? Or that a traditional house is easier to draw because it's basically a square and a triangle?



Times change... standards change... for example... if you ask a kid to draw a family, they will usually draw a mother and a father. But we know that other types of families exist... single moms, single dads... 2 moms, 2 dads... etc etc.
 
Yes bad area has aesthetically pleasing design due to many factors. I have mentioned several already. It is usually associated with the environmental alteration to the surroundings. Busy street, industrialization, close proximity to public transportation and racial demographic intolerance were some of the many factors that drove pride of ownership away. Both of the examples ABC posted are in the black neighborhoods of Pomona. History has indicated that a large black population often cause a decline of property value.



In many well sought after neighborhoods there were numerous remodels, alteration, and Mcmansions capitalizing on the community good name. Middle Easterners are notorious tearing down gems and built their Persian style monstrocity in Beverly Hills. Yes you will find many bad one in well sought after neighborhoods. At the same time you will find some good one in deterioted neighborhoods.



We saw the Imelda house and other Asians distasteful butchering of homes in North Tustin. Searching in the RE listing is a lousy way of finding a well designed home. Many good homes are not for sale and certainly not in this market. The bottom feeders and bad hybrids are flooding this market. You will find one or two good ones but they are needles in a haystack.



In Floral Park where I live the nicer homes are seldom for sale. The bad remodels have been consistently Asian owners.



If IHO is so good in his judgement then why is he barely able to provide for his family?



He wrote "you fail to realize that some people have to work very hard in their ?limited trade? just to improve their own lives. People struggle every day to survive and not everyone has the time or money to do what we would all ?like? to do. First and foremost, I need to make sure my kids get fed and get their education? if that means I need to stay working in my ?limited trade? then so be it."



If I am wrong then why he and others are interested in the Irvine communities and homes that I designed?
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1241076028]If IHO is so good in his judgement then why is he barely able to provide for his family?



He wrote "you fail to realize that some people have to work very hard in their ?limited trade? just to improve their own lives. People struggle every day to survive and not everyone has the time or money to do what we would all ?like? to do. First and foremost, I need to make sure my kids get fed and get their education? if that means I need to stay working in my ?limited trade? then so be it."



If I am wrong then why he and others are interested in the Irvine communities and homes that I designed?</blockquote>
Whoah... do you really want to bring that in here?



I already warned you about watching your assumptions... and maybe you should brush up on your reading comprehension while you're at it. Go back and re-read that post... the point wasn't just specifically about me... it was about people who don't have the luxury to enjoy trips to art museums or the spare time or money to help at homeless shelters. You were singling out people who focus on their education or line of work and don't "help other people lives"... what I was trying to say was like many other people, I need to make sure I take care of my family's needs first before I can start doing bkshopr's work and trying to uplift downtrodden neighborhoods. I'm not "barely able to provide"... but I'm not at a point where I can just look down my nose at people and criticize them for not wanting to go back to their roots or not wanting to explore their artistic side.



I don't think I'm the one who is claiming how almighty his judgement is... I'm just presenting the other side, the one where the us lowly non-cultural non-community designing peons live in day-to-day.



And to think I just got done telling you to relax that snobby, elitist online attitude a bit... you go and amp it up a notch.
 
More ugly homes with garages in exclusive neighborhoods



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Newport-Beach/2324-Port-Carlisle-Pl-92660/home/4723153">2324 Port Carlisle Pl Newport Beach, CA</a>



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Newport-Beach/7-Cherry-Hills-Ln-92660/home/4651498">7 Cherry Hills Ln Newport Beach</a>



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/21-Galileo-92603/home/4745654">21 Galileo Irvine, CA</a> (I actually like this home and if I had a couple of million to spare I would buy it).



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Huntington-Beach/19051-Stonehurst-Ln-92648/home/3138759">19051 Stonehurst Ln Huntington Beach, CA</a>



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Anaheim/315-S-Via-Montanera-92807/home/4302627">315 S Via Montanera Anaheim Hills, CA</a>



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Rolling-Hills-Estates/18-Covered-Wagon-Ln-90274/home/7747771">18 Covered Wagon Ln Rolling Hills Estates, CA</a>



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Rancho-Palos-Verdes/30503-Rue-Langlois-90275/home/7744864">30503 Rue Langlois Rancho Palos Verdes, CA</a>
 
To help out your community it only requires a good spirit. Go back to were you grew up be a big brother to kids that need a role model. It does not cost anything but just some of your time. I apologize for mis-interpreting your thought. I am not saying that I am above you. You giving up on where you grew up and turning your back on the neighborhood is the reason why neighborhood like Pomona as posted deterioted. Where you grew up in Harbor City/ Carson/ Lomita have lots of weekend programs to steer the youth in the right direction. If you make it your priority then you will find the time.
 
[quote author="ABC123" date=1241078943]More ugly homes with garages in exclusive neighborhoods



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Newport-Beach/2324-Port-Carlisle-Pl-92660/home/4723153">2324 Port Carlisle Pl Newport Beach, CA</a>



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Newport-Beach/7-Cherry-Hills-Ln-92660/home/4651498">7 Cherry Hills Ln Newport Beach</a>



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/21-Galileo-92603/home/4745654">21 Galileo Irvine, CA</a> (I actually like this home and if I had a couple of million to spare I would buy it).



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Huntington-Beach/19051-Stonehurst-Ln-92648/home/3138759">19051 Stonehurst Ln Huntington Beach, CA</a>



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Anaheim/315-S-Via-Montanera-92807/home/4302627">315 S Via Montanera Anaheim Hills, CA</a>



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Rolling-Hills-Estates/18-Covered-Wagon-Ln-90274/home/7747771">18 Covered Wagon Ln Rolling Hills Estates, CA</a>



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Rancho-Palos-Verdes/30503-Rue-Langlois-90275/home/7744864">30503 Rue Langlois Rancho Palos Verdes, CA</a></blockquote>


Stop stop stop. You are blinding me. They are really ugly and it is unfortunate that they exist in nice neighborhoods. Like I said before, they are borrowing from the good name. Chinese developers are notorious in Arcadia for tearing down a nice home and building a 4-6 plex.



You will find beach locations where the lots are narrow and houses have frontal garages there too. People bought there because of the beach. Be fair and choose inland or foothill locations away from Ocean. Pick San Marino for example.
 
With regard to no sidewalks in 92705/Unincorporated Santa Ana/North Tustin/Cowan Heights/Tustin Foothills (just trying to be all-inclusive...), what is the problem with walking in the street? The neighborhood I grew up in had no sidewalks. The streets were wide enough that you could park a car on both sides of the street, and still have room for 2 cars to pass (one in either direction) with room to spare. There also weren't a lot of cars parked on the street, and almost never any parked across from each other, so you always had plenty of room.



To be honest, I hate sidewalks... Too many cracks for strollers/wagons to be comfortable.
 
Here's where I grew up - basically at the corner of Embury Dr. and Eton Pl.



http://www.redfin.com/search#lat=33.76936409116428&long;=-117.80967950820923&market=socal&status=1&v=4&zoomLevel=16



We used to walk "the block" of Embury -> Sussex -> Hillhaven -> Eton -> Embury. If you zoom in on those streets, you'll count 9-10 cars (on both sides of the street) over about 3/4 mile.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1241079306]To help out your community it only requires a good spirit. Go back to were you grew up be a big brother to kids that need a role model. It does not cost anything but just some of your time. I apologize for mis-interpreting your thought. I am not saying that I am above you. You giving up on where you grew up and turning your back on the neighborhood is the reason why neighborhood like Pomona as posted deterioted. Where you grew up in Harbor City/ Carson/ Lomita have lots of weekend programs to steer the youth in the right direction. If you make it your priority then you will find the time.</blockquote>
See... that's good in theory... but the time I have right now goes to my own family. I can't spend time being Big Brother to some ex-gang banger because I need to spend time being Good Father to my own children.



Working and raising my own family takes up enough of my life... and there are probably many out there who can do that and be philanthropic... but not me... at least not now. I don't see how that is "turning my back". Again... many of us don't have the convenience that you may have... both me and my sig have to work fulltime in order to afford to live in a place many times better than where I grew up.



How many IHBers actually do what bkshopr does? Seriously. I'll bet the number is small because in the end... the lives of those closer to you are usually more important than the people you don't know. You have a good excuse in that your mother still lives where you grew up... I have no more family where I lived.



I think IHB can do without so much judgement... after all... at least I know how to swim.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1241056281][quote author="bkshopr" date=1241054258]The things that you mentioned are the things that make beautiful communities.

</blockquote>
Are you talking about no sidewalks? How can I appreciate a community if I can't even walk around to look at it?

<blockquote>

If you want to talk about function then I will give you one. No parking along the curb side is the primary tactic in discouraging burglary. The lots are large enough to provide guest parking so why need to park outside the premise.

</blockquote>
Those lots are either larger than they look or they have reallly small parties. Even just a small get together of my closest relatives would be about 4-8 cars... and if it's a party... well... let's just say that one of the parties at Crawford Canyon, they had to hire valets.



Funny though, some of those redone homes in North Tustin look like parking structures instead of homes... I guess I should like that.</blockquote>


Whoa... just whoa... not only do you need to get out more and explore LA, but you need to get out more in your own backyard to explore N. Tustin. There are plenty of tracts in N. Tustin with sidewalks. <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Santa-Ana/1002-Saint-John-Pl-92705/home/4762787">Like this home</a>...



http://media.cdn-redfin.com/photo/46/bigphoto/456/R810456_0.jpg



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Santa-Ana/Undisclosed-address-92705/home/4769103">And this home</a>...



http://media.cdn-redfin.com/photo/46/bigphoto/446/P684446_2.jpg



There really is something for everyone there, including you.



More importantly, aside from your experience of the poor planning of the homes around Crawford Canyon, homes without sidewalks can make for a great walkable and kid friendly neighborhood. Come to VP with our no sidewalks and no street lights at the prime walking/running time, just so you can see how many people are out doing these activities. You are asking for some to open their minds, and you should do the same.



I grew up on a cul-de-sac of homes with no sidewalks, and all of us kids had no problem riding our bikes, driving the go-kart, and skateboarding on the street. There was always plenty of street parking, until recently, with the Asian neighbors who can't park their car in the garage and have 8 cars park on the street. But, guess what? If you are having a party, the neighbors let each other know and make more parking available... hell... some of them even offer up driveway space. We don't need no stinking dickhead HOAs, we have what is called common courtesy. And trust me, when that courtesy hasn't been in kind, it is really easy to get the city involved to support the CC&Rs;. Most of the people who complain about their neighbors are the ones who take no action. Sorry, but because you can't take the time to send an email... or gasp, make a phone call... then you get no sympathy from me. Ask me about my neighbor who has a new lawnmower because of me making an effort. Also ask me about the burglaries, because while we didn't have sidewalks, we had "curbside" parking. Call me a BK follower all you want, but what he has said about easy access to homes for crime has been absolutely spot on in my experience.



I'm sure I have more to rant about N. Tustin, but I am tired. Can I offer you a tour? Maybe show you where the sidewalks are, or the garages? Really, there is way more to the hood than your limited experience.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1241107534]I'm sure I have more to rant about N. Tustin, but I am tired. Can I offer you a tour? Maybe show you where the sidewalks are, or the garages? Really, there is way more to the hood than your limited experience.</blockquote>
No need... I know the flatter areas below the foothills are actually more foot/bike friendly.



I was talking about a specific area, the actual homes up in the hills... not only are the streets not wide enough to allow pedestrians to co-exist with cars... but at the speed those cars are moving... it's not the safest place to walk. The whole gutter system also reminds me of some 3rd world country.



To be more specific, I'm talking about the area where you go up Newport and turn on Old Foothill or something like that (I don't remember the exact streets... I just drive up there... maybe Fairhaven?).
 
I have the respect for Graph for recognizing the beauty of neighborhood elements that are timeless and nostalgic. 25 years ago I remembered being attracted to Irvine for the aforementioned elements that what defined Irvine. As I grew older I learned that eternal appeal to me are neighborhood features that are less structure, picturesque and less manufactured based on formula and charts. Wealthy people with old money have a taste for this type of environment while the new money folks like the McMansion in your face type of neighborhood and home with structured procession rows of trees, walls, guards and fake waterfall.



The natural beauty of the National Parks perhaps is one that inspired my thinking. Shady Canyon although is structured but I was able to eliminate sidewalk, curb and gutter, and street lights. It made a world of difference for homeowners to go home to a rural environment just 3 minutes from the hustle of the city. I learned this trick many years ago when I visited Hancock Park where the neighborhood is just 2 minutes from the high rises of Wilshire Blvd and executives love the proximity and the prestige of owning a bucolic property in the heart of the city. The concept brought success to Shady immediately. I called Shady the Rancho Sante Fe but 2 minutes from Irvine.



I know both types of buyers. The old money who seek peace in their understated property as well the new money folks who want their friends to be envious how grand their house is. I design for both.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1241107534]You are asking for some to open their minds, and you should do the same.

</blockquote>
I missed this dig.



Chill out homeslice... I wasn't the one who started this "you have no appreciation for the arts so you can't possibly know what a nice house looks like" rhetoric.



I am just presenting my opinions, and when asked why, I back them up. Just because it doesn't agree with what someone is calling the "IHB standard" doesn't mean it's any less relevant.



Are you and bk done stroking each other now? Sheesh... I think cayci should start wondering about the bromance you guys got going on.



(Don't take this personally... it's just the Internet)
 
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