Minimum Wage Increase Impact/Effect

[irvinehomeowner]

@Bullsback:

That falls under "Protect", which I have no issue with the government doing.

I just don't see how setting a minimum wage without also limiting other costs of living is going to help.

 

[notTHEoc]

When a min wage worker makes a few more bucks, she immediately spends it. Great for biz and the economy. Henry Ford got it.

Ceo pay has grown a 100x faster than worker pay. I rather pay higher prices at the store and have peeps able to make a living wage.

Btw private sector employment under Obama (with Obamacare and all) has grown faster than during the Bush years and Corp profit margins are at record highs. Biz cries too much about stuff like this

 

[socal78]

 

[morekaos]

Puerto Rico is one of the best examples of imposing first world standards (like a minimum wage) on a third world economy...disaster ensues.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/puerto-ricos-wages-are-no-benefit-to-its-economy-1435787367

Puerto Rico?s Pain Is Tied to U.S. Wages

Economists say island?s use of the mainland?s minimum pay helps crimp its economy

Puerto Rico?s long-simmering debt crisis owes much to an economy that has been shedding jobs for years. And blame for that, economists say, stems in part from how the island operates under the same wage rules as the more prosperous 50 states.

The commonwealth is subject to the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour, even though local income and productivity are significantly lower than in Mississippi, the poorest American state. The minimum wage in Puerto Rico is equal to 77% of per capita income, compared with 28% in the U.S. overall.

Roughly one-third of workers earned the minimum wage on the island in 2010, compared with just 16% for the U.S. mainland, according to a 2012 report by the New York Federal Reserve Bank. That report concluded the minimum wage contributed to a lack of jobs for lower-skilled workers, in part because businesses can relocate to lower-wage nearby countries.

These problems are laid bare in a report Puerto Rico?s government released Monday by Anne Krueger, a former top official at the International Monetary Fund. Puerto Rico?s economy, which has been in recession for nine years, has struggled to create jobs and has compensated by offering generous tax breaks to companies and income support to residents.

 

[Bullsback]

@Bullsback:

That falls under "Protect", which I have no issue with the government doing.

I just don't see how setting a minimum wage without also limiting other costs of living is going to help.

I don't disagree with anything you posted, was more focused on the whole faith in businesses regulating themselves part. 

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@Bullsback:

That falls under "Protect", which I have no issue with the government doing.

I just don't see how setting a minimum wage without also limiting other costs of living is going to help.

I don't disagree with anything you posted, was more focused on the whole faith in businesses regulating themselves part. 

I wouldn't want businesses regulating themselves either.

However, I could see other non-governmental organizations being created to do this regulation if for anything to minimize waste and politics. They could use tax money to help fund themselves but every year this would go out to bid/vote so that the best organization would be used. This could still be susceptible to politics/corruption but at least the entire organization could change out each year.

And yes... I realize that's pie/sky action but not any more than irvinecommuter's perfect government scenario.

 

[tim]

All those examples that you say the market created, governments had a hand in supporting too. And, in many cases, it was the "market" that ended slavery, granted women's rights, pushed equality among races and sexes. Again, the market should decide what to do, the government just has to enforce it.

It was not the "market" that ended slavery.  We literally had a Civil War to end slavery and three Constitutional amendments.  Then it took the Supreme Court, Congress, and federal troops to end segregation.

Women's rights were also the result of civil protest and the 20th amendment.

Market didn't create equality in the market...it perpetuates status quo.

Uh... I think you just proved my point.

How did the Civil War start? Was it the government who decided it? How did those Amendments get created?

You answered it yourself... civil protest. The people... or rather... the "market" is what determined these things.

I think your definition of "market" and mine is different. I'm talking about what society wants, what the people want... the demand (as in supply and demand).

The concept is simple, if the market is going to determine that the cost of living in California (or Irvine) is higher, then let the market determine what the fair minimum wage is going to be. People will move to where they can afford to live based on wages and the market will correct itself accordingly. Why does the government have to get involved? If it's unfair, the "market" (IE "people") will effectuate change (as history has shown us).

You are saying that the market determined that it wanted the government to wage the Civil War and create amendments. Then the market has also decided that it wanted the government to raise the minimum wage. So you have gotten what you wanted.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@tim:

Consider that part of the "market" that should determine minimum wage are the businesses, who don't really support it, I don't think what you are trying to say actually applies.

 

[momopi]

Here's a mental experiment:
What if we had no minimum wage? What would that do?

Depends on the supply/demand in the labor market.

If many people are seeking the same job, the employer has option to demand applicants to work for free during probationary/learning period before they are paid.

In case of young adults seeking apprenticeship, the applicant (or parents) can be made to pay a fee to the master craftsman (or business owner) to work as an apprentice without pay, until they gained sufficient skills to become a paid journeyman.

 

[lowlyirvinerenter]

The issue is motivation.  Corporations are designed and created to make profit.  They have a legal obligation to minimize costs and increase profits.  You can say that the market has some moral corrective nature but overall, it doesn't.  Most governments are looking out for the welfare of the country as a whole and of its citizens.  Complete different motivations.

Government is run by elected officials that also have their own motivation -> re-election. Re-election may be done by people but is funded by special interests, be it unions, large corporations etc. Also, re-election happens every 4 years so between the time someone gets elected to the time they seek re-election they can satisfy whatever special interest group has funded their campaigns.

Ideal and utopian governments unfortunately do not exist. Similarly, ideal businesses do not exist, but given the right amount of oversight most people would act conscientiously and ultimately a minimum wage would be determined.

As far as I understand people have a problem when a seemingly arbitrary number is pulled as a minimum wage mark. This is similar to people proposing a flat tax rate without understanding that the progressive tax code we have in place is due to a specific reason.

 

[peppy]

The issue is motivation.  Corporations are designed and created to make profit.  They have a legal obligation to minimize costs and increase profits.  You can say that the market has some moral corrective nature but overall, it doesn't.  Most governments are looking out for the welfare of the country as a whole and of its citizens.  Complete different motivations.

Government is run by elected officials that also have their own motivation -> re-election. Re-election may be done by people but is funded by special interests, be it unions, large corporations etc. Also, re-election happens every 4 years so between the time someone gets elected to the time they seek re-election they can satisfy whatever special interest group has funded their campaigns.

Ideal and utopian governments unfortunately do not exist. Similarly, ideal businesses do not exist, but given the right amount of oversight most people would act conscientiously and ultimately a minimum wage would be determined.

As far as I understand people have a problem when a seemingly arbitrary number is pulled as a minimum wage mark. This is similar to people proposing a flat tax rate without understanding that the progressive tax code we have in place is due to a specific reason.

In developed countries where there is no minimum wage, there is a strong labor union with collective bargaining power that has negotiated a living wage. It is not people "acting conscientiously", it is the threat of not having a work force if you don't pay them a reasonable wage.

 

[lowlyirvinerenter]

In developed countries where there is no minimum wage, there is a strong labor union with collective bargaining power that has negotiated a living wage. It is not people "acting conscientiously", it is the threat of not having a work force if you don't pay them a reasonable wage.

Labor unions are some of the most corrupt in this country. The labor union that lobbied for the minimum wage hike exempted themselves from the same.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-union-minimum-wage-20150529-story.html

 

[peppy]

In developed countries where there is no minimum wage, there is a strong labor union with collective bargaining power that has negotiated a living wage. It is not people "acting conscientiously", it is the threat of not having a work force if you don't pay them a reasonable wage.

Labor unions are some of the most corrupt in this country. The labor union that lobbied for the minimum wage hike exempted themselves from the same.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-union-minimum-wage-20150529-story.html

That has been historically (in the last many decades) a problem in this country - unions that do not advocate for the best interest of the workers. I don't buy this whole argument that by being exempt of minimum wage laws that it will lead to greater union representation and eventually to a bargained wage at or above the minimum.

 

[eyephone]

In developed countries where there is no minimum wage, there is a strong labor union with collective bargaining power that has negotiated a living wage. It is not people "acting conscientiously", it is the threat of not having a work force if you don't pay them a reasonable wage.

Labor unions are some of the most corrupt in this country. The labor union that lobbied for the minimum wage hike exempted themselves from the same.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-union-minimum-wage-20150529-story.html

That has been historically (in the last many decades) a problem in this country - unions that do not advocate for the best interest of the workers. I don't buy this whole argument that by being exempt of minimum wage laws that it will lead to greater union representation and eventually to a bargained wage at or above the minimum.

Did you know the minimum wage was going to be on the California ballot? But it was removed when the legislative and the unions made a deal. (To my understanding)

 

[Kangen.Irvine]

Two competing ballot measures and the politicians feared for confusion and that both would fail. Shocking to think voters would be confused.

Why not just increase the EITC by county to directly help the lower income families instead of the teenage workforce.

 

[eyephone]

Two competing ballot measures and the politicians feared for confusion and that both would fail. Shocking to think voters would be confused.

Why not just increase the EITC by county to directly help the lower income families instead of the teenage workforce.

or the legislators feared the it would not get enough votes, if it went to the California ballot in November.

Let me tell you this, people are cheap and they do not want to pay more for groceries and other stuff.
So I guess the only options are to layoff or have people do multiple things or automate.

 

[tim]

@tim:

Consider that part of the "market" that should determine minimum wage are the businesses, who don't really support it, I don't think what you are trying to say actually applies.

Wait, what? What constitutes the businesses? Who constitutes the market that wanted the Civil War and the amendments? Aren't they all constituted by people? People spend money at businesses to keep them going. People vote (and spend money) for representatives.

 

[morekaos]

Two competing ballot measures and the politicians feared for confusion and that both would fail. Shocking to think voters would be confused.

Why not just increase the EITC by county to directly help the lower income families instead of the teenage workforce.

or the legislators feared the it would not get enough votes, if it went to the California ballot in November.

Let me tell you this, people are cheap and they do not want to pay more for groceries and other stuff.
So I guess the only options are to layoff or have people do multiple things or automate.

This is the very near future for us now that minimum wage has forced big employers into a corner...less jobs. The road to ruin is paved with good intentions.

McDonald's Rolling Out Self-Ordering Kiosks in Europe; Will U.S. Be Next?

But should the majority of McDonald's in the U.S. get self-order kiosks, it could help franchisees reduce labor costs -- and boost profits -- just as state minimum wages are on an uptrend. Ordering burgers and fries on tablet-like devices would also assist in adding some cool factor back into the McDonald's brand just as it prepares to launch its first-ever loyalty program and likely, mobile ordering.

"We are testing them [kiosks] in the United States, and haven't announced any additional specifics," says Hary.

McDonald's began testing ordering kiosks in four Southern California restaurants in 2014, and then expanded that to 30 locations in five more states in early 2015. The five additional states were Illinois, Wisconsin, Georgia, Missouri and Pennsylvania. 

The kiosks installed so far in McDonald's U.S. locations may be having a positive effect on business. "I do not have the kiosks yet, but I have friends who have them -- they are seeing very positive results, with a higher average check and a high percentage of customers using them," a McDonald's franchisee with several locations in New York City told TheStreet.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/13511123/1/mcdonald-s-rolling-out-self-ordering-kiosks-in-europe-will-u-s-be-next.html

 

[qwerty]

I always order Taco Bell using the app. The Taco Bell on barranca by the district has self order kiosks. I've been wondering when McDonald's would switch to this

 

[morekaos]

Humans need not apply
https://youtu.be/7Pq-S557XQU