Ladera Ranch Discussion Thread

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[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1215215988]I'm still trying to wrap my head around why a two person household (ok, three to five, if you count live in staff) would need so much house. There are some very private and nice places in Newport, Newport Coast, etc. that are closer to civilization (nothing personal to the Coto folks).</blockquote>


Yeah, I can see your point about closer to civilization. But, we prefer to raise our children a bit further from influences and more sheltered. I think raising children in a place like Newport Beach requires more vigilance and struggle with materialism. It is a struggle in any affluent neighborhood, but Newport seems to be the epitome of an area attractive to a materialistic attitude.


EvaL - Why do you assume that owning a larger home has anything to do with need?
 
<blockquote>I?m still trying to wrap my head around why a two person household (ok, three to five, if you count live in staff) would need so much house. </blockquote>
I agree.

<blockquote>There are some very private and nice places in Newport, Newport Coast, etc. that are closer to civilization (nothing personal to the Coto folks).</blockquote>
I'm not taking it personally. OK - maybe I am. :-P Coto isn't that far from civilization. I used to live in Turtle Ridge and I have a lot of friends who live in Northpark. I can get to their house faster from Coto than I could from Turtle Ridge. And we have oodles and oodles of stores across from Coto. The closest stores from Turtle Ridge were the South Coast Plaza area in Costa Mesa. We can also get to John Wayne airport in 30 minutes door-to-door.



Of course, I would love to live in the Port street area of Newport Beach. However, I just can't justify paying those prices. Maybe if they come down to a more reasonable level.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1215217973][quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1215215988]I'm still trying to wrap my head around why a two person household (ok, three to five, if you count live in staff) would need so much house. There are some very private and nice places in Newport, Newport Coast, etc. that are closer to civilization (nothing personal to the Coto folks).</blockquote>


Yeah, I can see your point about closer to civilization. But, we prefer to raise our children a bit further from influences and more sheltered. I think raising children in a place like Newport Beach requires more vigilance and struggle with materialism. It is a struggle in any affluent neighborhood, but Newport seems to be the epitome of an area attractive to a materialistic attitude.


EvaL - Why do you assume that owning a larger home has anything to do with need?</blockquote>


Well, if the "Real Housewives" kids are a representative sample, I'm not sure Coto is much better than Newport. To my mind, Anaheim Hills might strike a good balance.



I think you may have read my comment about house size too literally, so let me rephrase: "I'm still trying to wrap my head around why a two person household (ok, three to five, if you count live in staff) would seek so much house." Which is not to say that I don't get the status thing. I do. At the same time, I look at the size and cost of the home he is thinking of and think, for one half of that, I could travel to some very interesting places, have the ability to help others in material ways (e.g. scholarships for inner city kids, etc.), and still throw some awesome parties.



I admit to having a hard time reconciling wanting a really big house with a desire to shelter one's kids from materialism, but that is probably a failure of adequate thinking on my part.
 
<blockquote>Well, if the ?Real Housewives? kids are a representative sample, I?m not sure Coto is much better than Newport. </blockquote>
LOL. And we get to see more of these kids soon since the show is currently taping in Coto.
 
[quote author="CalGal" date=1215219002]<blockquote>Well, if the ?Real Housewives? kids are a representative sample, I?m not sure Coto is much better than Newport. </blockquote>
LOL. And we get to see more of these kids soon since the show is currently taping in Coto.</blockquote>


I thought that "Real House Wifes of OC" was finished. And the new show "Real House Wifes of NY" replaced it??



You mean the show "Real House Wifes of OC" will return???...cool!!!!
 
<blockquote>I thought that ?Real House Wifes of OC? was finished. And the new show ?Real House Wifes of NY? replaced it??

You mean the show ?Real House Wifes of OC? will return???...cool!!!! </blockquote>
Yup, it's coming back. I would be curious to know how much each of the housewives made for the season.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1215218802]

Well, if the "Real Housewives" kids are a representative sample, I'm not sure Coto is much better than Newport. </blockquote>


The "Real Housewives" kids are not a representative example, but somehow I think you already knew that.



[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1215218802]I think you may have read my comment about house size too literally, so let me rephrase: "I'm still trying to wrap my head around why a two person household (ok, three to five, if you count live in staff) would seek so much house." Which is not to say that I don't get the status thing. I do. At the same time, I look at the size and cost of the home he is thinking of and think, for one half of that, I could travel to some very interesting places, have the ability to help others in material ways (e.g. scholarships for inner city kids, etc.), and still throw some awesome parties.



I admit to having a hard time reconciling wanting a really big house with a desire to shelter one's kids from materialism, but that is probably a failure of adequate thinking on my part.</blockquote>


I can see your point about reconciling the want for a really big home with a desire to shelter one's kids from materialism. I was refering to the location of Coto when speaking of the goal of shelering a child from much of the world's influence, including materialism. Oddly enough, Coto has more of a coutry feel to it and a country attitude than Newport Beach or Laguna Beach or ... . My wife and I are still not completely sure on how much house is too much. How much is so much that it could be a negative influence on our children? Maybe it is naive on our part to think there is anyplace more condusive to sheltering a child than another, but I guess we have to try.


I doubt if the folks who live in the large homes have values which are so different than yours; ie. charity, scholarships, travel, and some awesome parties. My experience, as lacking as it is, is that wealthy people give away a much larger percentage of their income than not wealthy people. There are parents here who buy their children expensive material things and there are parents who consciously deny their children many material things which they easily afford. It is an interesting learning experience for us to watch and integrate and discard behaviors we see around us. I truly do not have the perfect solutions to the dilemas that confront us as a result of living in an affluent neighborhood, but I am fairly sure that living in an affluent neighborhood beats living in a less affluent neighborhood. And so far, my experience is that there are some differences between the different areas; Coto vs Newport.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1215218802]

Well, if the "Real Housewives" kids are a representative sample, I'm not sure Coto is much better than Newport. </blockquote>


The "Real Housewives" kids are not a representative example, but somehow I think you already knew that.



[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1215218802]I think you may have read my comment about house size too literally, so let me rephrase: "I'm still trying to wrap my head around why a two person household (ok, three to five, if you count live in staff) would seek so much house." Which is not to say that I don't get the status thing. I do. At the same time, I look at the size and cost of the home he is thinking of and think, for one half of that, I could travel to some very interesting places, have the ability to help others in material ways (e.g. scholarships for inner city kids, etc.), and still throw some awesome parties.



I admit to having a hard time reconciling wanting a really big house with a desire to shelter one's kids from materialism, but that is probably a failure of adequate thinking on my part.</blockquote>


I can see your point about reconciling the want for a really big home with a desire to shelter one's kids from materialism. I was refering to the location of Coto when speaking of the goal of shelering a child from much of the world's influence, including materialism. Oddly enough, Coto has more of a country feel to it and a country attitude than Newport Beach or Laguna Beach or ... . My wife and I are still not completely sure on how much house is too much. How much is so much that it could be a negative influence on our children? Maybe it is naive on our part to think there is anyplace more condusive to sheltering a child than another, but I guess we have to try.


I doubt if the folks who live in the large homes have values which are so different than yours; ie. charity, scholarships, travel, and some awesome parties. My experience, as lacking as it is, is that wealthy people give away a much larger percentage of their income than not wealthy people. There are parents here who buy their children expensive material things and there are parents who consciously deny their children many material things which they can easily afford. It is an interesting learning experience for us to watch and integrate and discard behaviors we see around us. I truly do not have the perfect solutions to the dilemas that confront us as a result of living in an affluent neighborhood, but I am fairly sure that living in an affluent neighborhood beats living in a less affluent neighborhood. And so far, my experience is that there are some differences between the different areas; Coto vs Newport.
 
<blockquote>... Coto has more of a country feel to it and a country attitude than Newport Beach or Laguna Beach or ... </blockquote>
This is exactly why we LOVE Coto. We love the trees, mountain views, birds, open space. It feels more like New England to me than any other area of Orange County that I have experienced. I truly don't think we'll ever live in a more beautiful area, and I'm thankful for this experience every day.



It still amazes me when my husband and I walk around Coto and see the 16 year olds driving the $250k Bentleys with their friends. Although, my husband said he saw nicer cars when we lived near Newport Beach.
 
Okay... I am going to offer my ?2, even if I am not a parent, nor am I sure whether I want to have kids, but as someone who grew up in an affluent area of OC. And, it is not personally directed at anyone here, but it is just my own personal experience of growing up in an affluent area of OC.



I think you will find the materialistic side of OC no matter where in OC you raise your kids. Will the ratio of that influence be higher in Newport than OC? Maybe, but as a parent it is up to you help influence this, and if the outside factors change that influence, then there is nothing you can do. Where I grew up, some of my friends and myself thought the LV bag came standard with the Mercedes that some of the moms drove. Why? Because my mom and my friends' moms didn't drive Mercedes or have a LV bag. Hell, you can see this in Anaheim just as you can see it in Coto. This influence is everywhere in OC.



I was lucky I learned from my dad at a young age that it wasn't the material things that brought you wealth, it was the timing of buying assets. He made his mistakes, and was not ashamed of hiding them from me to teach me a lesson. He knew this housing bubble was starting in 2002, when we were looking for cash flow positive investment properties, and we couldn't find any. I was still very green in the RE business, and I bought into the bubble without knowing it. My dad let me buy into it, and made a great decision too, and now I am seeing the lesson he was trying to teach me. Sometimes you need to learn a lesson the hard way, and I am doing that. But, if he were here today, he would know that I have learned a valuable lesson and I am taking what I have learned to use for my own advantage. I am also proving him wrong that if you take care of a bimmer, then the bimmer will take care of you too. He would be proud to see both of those lessons learned, his and mine.



Anyway, my point is the influence of materialism will be anywhere in OC from Anaheim to Coto to Newport to VP, they all have the spoiled brats with mommy or daddy taking care of everything. Some will turn out great, and take over the family business, and some will be living at home with their illegitimate child, working at Office Depot, and stuck having to ask for rides outside of work because they have four DUIs. Some will see their parents go from riches to rags, and still do the same dumb thing their parents did, not once but multiple times. All you can do as a parent is try to teach them that is not the life to expect, and if they end up being influenced by that, then you have to remember they are people too, with their own minds that can make their own decisions. All you can do is try your best to be the stronger influence than the outside influences. Which is easier said than done.



One last thing, I just hung out with a family who had three kids that are now all adults. They raised them in pretty much the same way, and now two are very successful, but one is still stuck in the entitlement stage. So, consider that as one in three will be influenced no matter what you do, and despite the results of the others. That is the risk you take by having kids, and a risk that I highly consider, because I know I can and will do my best to be the best parent as possible, but there are some things I just cannot control.



All in all, live in the place that you love. I like Coto, but I would much rather be closer to the beach than that. Will my opinion change if when I decide if I ever want kids? Sure, but I still will want to live where I love, and that could be north Tustin or even Orchard Hills. We will see what happens as this bubble creates opportunity for those who learn from others.



/rant over
 
LOL graph. I just about spit up my coffee. I am one of 3 and we grew up in what would today be a 7 figure 'hood. 2 of us are successful, one is stuck permanently in the entitlement phase (even living in the old paid off house that I'm sure the'rents would love to cash in). Spot on.
 
<blockquote>I?m guessing that ?entitled? individual is the youngest sibling? </blockquote>
I was thinking about Graph's post and relating it to my family and my husband's family. In my husband's family of 5 kids, the oldest is the "entitled" individual. We are always amazed that all 5 grew up in the same exact household, same neighborhood, same upbringing, however, the old oldest one seems to have grown up in a completely different way. He feels entitled where the other 4 do not.
 
Totally gorgeous house 25w.



I know people who are definitely not-rich who managed to spoil

their kids rotten, by sheltering them from any storms. They HELOCed their

house to do it. Now, I'm sure they are underwater. It was done out of

love, but. . .



My son was married to her (very briefly).
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1215235086]The "Real Housewives" kids are not a representative example, but somehow I think you already knew that.</blockquote>


Actually, I didn't, which is why I used the phrase "If . . ." I don't live there or hang out there, so my depth of knowledge of Coto is very thin. I have spent some time hanging out in the South County area generally and I noted the negatives that Shadowdrop noted. If those don't extend behind the gates, then kudos to Coto.



[quote author="awgee" date=1215235086]I can see your point about reconciling the want for a really big home with a desire to shelter one's kids from materialism. I was refering to the location of Coto when speaking of the goal of shelering a child from much of the world's influence, including materialism. Oddly enough, Coto has more of a country feel to it and a country attitude than Newport Beach or Laguna Beach or ... . My wife and I are still not completely sure on how much house is too much. How much is so much that it could be a negative influence on our children? Maybe it is naive on our part to think there is anyplace more condusive to sheltering a child than another, but I guess we have to try.


I doubt if the folks who live in the large homes have values which are so different than yours; ie. charity, scholarships, travel, and some awesome parties. My experience, as lacking as it is, is that wealthy people give away a much larger percentage of their income than not wealthy people. There are parents here who buy their children expensive material things and there are parents who consciously deny their children many material things which they can easily afford. It is an interesting learning experience for us to watch and integrate and discard behaviors we see around us. I truly do not have the perfect solutions to the dilemas that confront us as a result of living in an affluent neighborhood, but I am fairly sure that living in an affluent neighborhood beats living in a less affluent neighborhood. And so far, my experience is that there are some differences between the different areas; Coto vs Newport.</blockquote>


Coto was developed, at least partially, as an equestrian community (like OPA), so the country feel was a conscious choice on the part of the developers. That wealthy people give away a larger percentage of their income isn't surprising. Someone who makes $2M a year can give away 50% of their income and have it affect their food/shelter situation significantly less than someone who makes $20,000 a year. With respect to the affluence of a neighborhood, there's a lot of gray area between the custom estates at Newport Coast and the Logan Barrio. I would never advocate living in an area physically dangerous or developmentally deficient to a child merely to provide the child with a "life experience." And let's face it, contacts, be they in childhood, college, or later in life can be very helpful (aren't those some of the biggest selling points to Harvard, Stanford, and even USC?), so wanting to provide one's child that leg up is totally understandable, too. I don't buy into the idea, however, that one is a bad parent if one chooses to live in Cypress, or La Palma, or Irvine, or Portola Hills, even though the family could well afford to live in Newport, Laguna, or Coto.
 
[quote author="CalGal" date=1215218186]<blockquote>I?m still trying to wrap my head around why a two person household (ok, three to five, if you count live in staff) would need so much house. </blockquote>
I agree.

<blockquote>There are some very private and nice places in Newport, Newport Coast, etc. that are closer to civilization (nothing personal to the Coto folks).</blockquote>
I'm not taking it personally. OK - maybe I am. :-P Coto isn't that far from civilization. I used to live in Turtle Ridge and I have a lot of friends who live in Northpark. I can get to their house faster from Coto than I could from Turtle Ridge. And we have oodles and oodles of stores across from Coto. The closest stores from Turtle Ridge were the South Coast Plaza area in Costa Mesa. We can also get to John Wayne airport in 30 minutes door-to-door.



Of course, I would love to live in the Port street area of Newport Beach. However, I just can't justify paying those prices. Maybe if they come down to a more reasonable level.</blockquote>


Sorry I missed this yesterday. Wait a bit if you want the Port streets. I saw that one went back to the bank and four are in some stage of preforeclosure.
 
<blockquote>Sorry I missed this yesterday. Wait a bit if you want the Port streets. I saw that one went back to the bank and four are in some stage of preforeclosure. </blockquote>
Nice!



A friend of mine sold <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Newport-Beach/2344-Port-Aberdeen-92660/home/4723214">this property</a> to her company for 1.6 million last October. As a friend I was thrilled for her. But as a buyer, 1.6 for 1700 sq ft with no view - come on! It's now been reduced to 1.395m and it's still sitting there. It's a great neighborhood and we are good friends with four families on this street. I would love to be a part of this neighborhood; however, I would rather put my money into a more comfortable house.



Maybe in a few years. Aw, to have dream. Maybe my dream will come true if I change my name to CalGal Dreaming of Newport Beach and start posting in the third person. :-)
 
That house looks a lot like the house I bought in South Dade in '81 for $108,000

and sold in late 1995 (completely redone after Andrew, and by completely I mean

everything except the slab, walls, most of the trusses and some little bit of the

inside wall supports) for 130,000, and which peaked at $350,000.



My house had 1750 square feet, lot 10,000, a pool in back, etc, etc.



Yeah, I know here isn't there, but com'on.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1215302058] That wealthy people give away a larger percentage of their income isn't surprising. Someone who makes $2M a year can give away 50% of their income and have it affect their food/shelter situation significantly less than someone who makes $20,000 a year. </blockquote>


That is what I used to think, but now I have a different view. It seems that it is the attitude of someone who able to accululate wealth is the same attitude that enables them to give it away. Just my observation.



This is a later edit. Actually, it is not my observation. I read a book, "Who Really Cares" by Arthur Brooks. He conducted research with an agenda: to show how stingy Republicans are. And his basic conclusion after conducting much research was that giving is based mostly on values and little on income. Shocked the heck out of me.
 
[quote author="IrvineRealtor" date=1215297228]I'm guessing that "entitled" individual is the youngest sibling?</blockquote>


I don't mind saying that graph was talking about my family, and yes, the youngest of the 3 of us is the "entitled" one. When people ask me about my siblings, my answer about the youngest is "um...she's still...um...finding herself." We grew up in an affluent area in the middle of nowhere, so being far from civilization won't necessarily help you raise successful, hard-working children.
 
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