Is there any way prices can appreciate from here?
- Thread starter IrvineRenter_IHB
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
IrvineRenter_IHB
New member
red,
I suppose it does depend on how you calculate the cost of ownership. 20% downpayments, which used to be the norm and now are an oddity, will certainly reduce the cost of ownership because you will be financing less. I remember when this bubble first started taking off, I assumed move up buyers were taking their equity and making large downpayments to keep the cost of financing low. Some undoubtedly did this, but statistics show home equity at an all-time low, so mostly people just took on a lot more debt. IMO, if 20% downpayments ever became required again, the housing market would really crash hard because nobody has it. This is the big risk with the implosion of sub-prime.
Also, if you rent from the bank with equity participation using IO ARM instead of using a 30 year conventional mortgage, you can reduce your cost even further. If you are able (with downpayments) or willing (with exotic financing) you can get the cost of ownership closer to the cost of rental (you still can't quite get there unless you go option ARM), but then you are magnifying the risk on the transaction. If you look at the equalization point where exotic financing reduces your ownership cost to match rents, you can actually make owning cheaper if you use an Option ARM with a teaser rate. That is one of the reasons those have been so popular. The danger of this kind of financing is obvious.
When you finance with a conventional fixed-rate mortgage, you are continually building a cushion against a downturn in prices, and hopefully, locked-in to a payment you can afford. With an IO ARM, you are doing neither. You are betting on appreciation, and you are betting on being able to refinance with equal or better terms in the future. If either one of these does not occur, you risk foreclosure (which many people are about to learn the hard way). Personally, I am not willing to take that risk because the consequences of losing the bet (foreclosure and bankruptcy) are greater than I am willing to tolerate. Other people have different tolerances for risk and may be willing to accept that. If past is prologue, buyers who used 7-year IO ARMs from 1989 to 1991 were financially ruined.
If being unwilling to use exotic financing means I will rent forever, so be it. If and when I finally buy again (I have owned before), I will use a conventional 30-year fixed-rate mortgage where the payment approximates the rental of a similar unit. I will count on my interest deduction to cover the cost of taxes, insurance, maintenance, and HOA. I don't mind waiting and saving. It beats a life of debt stress and financial servitude, IMO, which is how I would feel if I purchased now.
I suppose it does depend on how you calculate the cost of ownership. 20% downpayments, which used to be the norm and now are an oddity, will certainly reduce the cost of ownership because you will be financing less. I remember when this bubble first started taking off, I assumed move up buyers were taking their equity and making large downpayments to keep the cost of financing low. Some undoubtedly did this, but statistics show home equity at an all-time low, so mostly people just took on a lot more debt. IMO, if 20% downpayments ever became required again, the housing market would really crash hard because nobody has it. This is the big risk with the implosion of sub-prime.
Also, if you rent from the bank with equity participation using IO ARM instead of using a 30 year conventional mortgage, you can reduce your cost even further. If you are able (with downpayments) or willing (with exotic financing) you can get the cost of ownership closer to the cost of rental (you still can't quite get there unless you go option ARM), but then you are magnifying the risk on the transaction. If you look at the equalization point where exotic financing reduces your ownership cost to match rents, you can actually make owning cheaper if you use an Option ARM with a teaser rate. That is one of the reasons those have been so popular. The danger of this kind of financing is obvious.
When you finance with a conventional fixed-rate mortgage, you are continually building a cushion against a downturn in prices, and hopefully, locked-in to a payment you can afford. With an IO ARM, you are doing neither. You are betting on appreciation, and you are betting on being able to refinance with equal or better terms in the future. If either one of these does not occur, you risk foreclosure (which many people are about to learn the hard way). Personally, I am not willing to take that risk because the consequences of losing the bet (foreclosure and bankruptcy) are greater than I am willing to tolerate. Other people have different tolerances for risk and may be willing to accept that. If past is prologue, buyers who used 7-year IO ARMs from 1989 to 1991 were financially ruined.
If being unwilling to use exotic financing means I will rent forever, so be it. If and when I finally buy again (I have owned before), I will use a conventional 30-year fixed-rate mortgage where the payment approximates the rental of a similar unit. I will count on my interest deduction to cover the cost of taxes, insurance, maintenance, and HOA. I don't mind waiting and saving. It beats a life of debt stress and financial servitude, IMO, which is how I would feel if I purchased now.
IrvineRenter_IHB
New member
fk 123,
A 30-year fixed-rate mortgage on $700,000 at 6% would have a $4,200 a month payment. The interest would be $3,500.
20% less for a downpayment would be $3,360 and $2,800 respectively.
A 30-year fixed-rate mortgage on $700,000 at 6% would have a $4,200 a month payment. The interest would be $3,500.
20% less for a downpayment would be $3,360 and $2,800 respectively.
bigmoneysalsa_IHB
New member
<p>Red, you forgot to include the opportunity cost of down-payment (around $600/month in a 5% savings account). Also, how do you get a $1200 tax savings on $2800 in interest? That's 43%; seems a bit high. Your $3000 owner-equivalent rent seems about right though.</p>
<p>In any case, I think you are right on about one thing. Right now buying from the builders seems like a better deal than buying resale. At 230 times rent, the La Casella plan 1 may still not be a good deal, but it is one heck of a better deal than 90% of the resales you see. I bet this partly explains the interest that a lot of buyers still have in these new developments.</p>
<p>In any case, I think you are right on about one thing. Right now buying from the builders seems like a better deal than buying resale. At 230 times rent, the La Casella plan 1 may still not be a good deal, but it is one heck of a better deal than 90% of the resales you see. I bet this partly explains the interest that a lot of buyers still have in these new developments.</p>
crucialtaunt_IHB
New member
<p>red: <em>"Let's take the La Casella Plan1 at $700k. If a buyer has 20% down, and doing the 7-year ARM IO only at 6%.
Interest is at $2800
Tax is $1000
HOA $400
TOTAL $4200
Assuming he can tax deduction of $1200 per month, he'd be paying net of $3000."</em></p>
<p>There are several ways to skin the proverbial cat. If you are narrowly arguing the "affordability" question, then red, my friend, you have won.</p>
<p>There are several other points to ponder though:</p>
<p>Who in their right minds today will go for a 7-yr. ARM I/O in the current market clouded under uncertainty? The implicit assumption in going the I/O route is (was?) that property values will keep increasing at a high enough rate that it will outpace any gains on equity you might have if you had a loan with both principal & interest.</p>
<p>Per a simulation I ran on eloan.com with your scenario, here is what the 10 year forecast looks on the 7-year I/O and a comparable 30-year fixed traditional loan. Basically you just pay a "rent" in the form of interest payments for 7 years. The maket being what it is, will not return you anything in the form of equity (in fact, it may eat into some of it). If you go for a 30 year fixed, you pay $3400 or so for just P&I, which after taxes, it amounts to a deduction of $1,000/month. So your total monthly "net of taxes" expense for the same plan 1 will be around $3,800. This is not factoring in any loss you will have on your equity (down payment of $140,000) from day 1. Good luck!</p>
<p> </p>
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/crucialtaunt2006/Loans"><img style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 16px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none" height="160" alt="" width="160" src="http://lh3.google.com/image/crucialtaunt2006/RczHZGf7rmE/AAAAAAAAAA8/CuIim-PW1Gw/s160-c/Loans.jpg" /></a>
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/crucialtaunt2006/Loans">
Loans
</a>
Interest is at $2800
Tax is $1000
HOA $400
TOTAL $4200
Assuming he can tax deduction of $1200 per month, he'd be paying net of $3000."</em></p>
<p>There are several ways to skin the proverbial cat. If you are narrowly arguing the "affordability" question, then red, my friend, you have won.</p>
<p>There are several other points to ponder though:</p>
<p>Who in their right minds today will go for a 7-yr. ARM I/O in the current market clouded under uncertainty? The implicit assumption in going the I/O route is (was?) that property values will keep increasing at a high enough rate that it will outpace any gains on equity you might have if you had a loan with both principal & interest.</p>
<p>Per a simulation I ran on eloan.com with your scenario, here is what the 10 year forecast looks on the 7-year I/O and a comparable 30-year fixed traditional loan. Basically you just pay a "rent" in the form of interest payments for 7 years. The maket being what it is, will not return you anything in the form of equity (in fact, it may eat into some of it). If you go for a 30 year fixed, you pay $3400 or so for just P&I, which after taxes, it amounts to a deduction of $1,000/month. So your total monthly "net of taxes" expense for the same plan 1 will be around $3,800. This is not factoring in any loss you will have on your equity (down payment of $140,000) from day 1. Good luck!</p>
<p> </p>
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/crucialtaunt2006/Loans"><img style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 16px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none" height="160" alt="" width="160" src="http://lh3.google.com/image/crucialtaunt2006/RczHZGf7rmE/AAAAAAAAAA8/CuIim-PW1Gw/s160-c/Loans.jpg" /></a>
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/crucialtaunt2006/Loans">
Loans
</a>
this is great. love the calculations. i do like to know both sides, and i don't think there really is a right or wrong on anybody's decision to rent or buy.
i've heard that rent USED to be more expensive than buying, now obviously it's in reverse by alot, but it's good to see the monthly comparisons
i used to have a 3 year ARM, so i know about the risks of it. i sold after 2 years, so i never did see the "dear sir, your payment has quintupled.... " letter.
i've heard that rent USED to be more expensive than buying, now obviously it's in reverse by alot, but it's good to see the monthly comparisons
i used to have a 3 year ARM, so i know about the risks of it. i sold after 2 years, so i never did see the "dear sir, your payment has quintupled.... " letter.
IrvineRenter_IHB
New member
fk 123,
In most markets in the United States most of the time, owning is less expensive than renting. Back in the days when downpayments were required, there were not many people who had the downpayment, so the pool of buyers was smaller. The only people who could play at the real estate game where those who had money. There were no <a href="http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/">Casey Serin's</a> out there borrowing $2.2 million with no money down and no verifiable income. House prices stabilize near their cashflow value because this is the price levels where people with cash will invest for rental income or rental savings. The net effect is fewer buyers in the market. Fewer buyers makes for lower prices.
Lenders used to require down payments for two reasons: 1. it showed you could be responsible, live within your means, and save money. This was a good sign to a lender hoping to get repaid. 2. It gave them a cushion if they needed to foreclose because above all else, lenders do not like losing money.
Sub-prime lending was the grand experiment with qualifying buyers who used to be excluded from the real estate market. The resulting influx of borrowers and lowering of lending standards (elimination of downpayments, etc.) spurred a dramatic increase in demand which in turn drove prices much higher. Now that this grand experiment with sub-prime is proving a failure, this demand stimulus is going to be removed from the market resulting in lower house prices for the foreseeable future; perhaps much lower.
In most markets in the United States most of the time, owning is less expensive than renting. Back in the days when downpayments were required, there were not many people who had the downpayment, so the pool of buyers was smaller. The only people who could play at the real estate game where those who had money. There were no <a href="http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/">Casey Serin's</a> out there borrowing $2.2 million with no money down and no verifiable income. House prices stabilize near their cashflow value because this is the price levels where people with cash will invest for rental income or rental savings. The net effect is fewer buyers in the market. Fewer buyers makes for lower prices.
Lenders used to require down payments for two reasons: 1. it showed you could be responsible, live within your means, and save money. This was a good sign to a lender hoping to get repaid. 2. It gave them a cushion if they needed to foreclose because above all else, lenders do not like losing money.
Sub-prime lending was the grand experiment with qualifying buyers who used to be excluded from the real estate market. The resulting influx of borrowers and lowering of lending standards (elimination of downpayments, etc.) spurred a dramatic increase in demand which in turn drove prices much higher. Now that this grand experiment with sub-prime is proving a failure, this demand stimulus is going to be removed from the market resulting in lower house prices for the foreseeable future; perhaps much lower.
Thanks for all the responses.
bigmoney - I was assuming write-off from property tax as well. But I heard about AMT which doesn't allow property taz write-off, and I honestly dont know if AMT will effect my tax situation. Also yes I didn't consider the income you would get from downpayment, but your $600 saving income will get tax.
crucialtaunt - I am not trying to narrowly arguing just to 'win' argument. I thought using a 7-year IO ARM was a reasonable comparison to current renting cost but maybe using 7-year IO was a bad example.
With 20% down and the payment of 30-year fixed at 6.5% is $3500. To make it simpler can we count on interest deduction to cover the cost of taxes, insurance, maintenance, and HOA? So it is a bit higher than current rent but it is certaintly not double?
Also I am mainly interested in local housing in Irvine. I dont know if assuming potential Irvine buyers putting down 20% is unreasonable, and I dont have statistic on Irvine home equity level.
So I agree that the housing price in Irvine right now seems a bit inflated and most likely I wouldn't buy if it was for investment. But for ownership I am willing to tolerate 10-15% drop down the road, knowing the price will eventually rise. But if the drop is going to be 50% then I might start loosing some sleep.
So hopefully we can quickly tell whether the drop will be significant in 6 months. With my personal situation, it would be very difficult to rent forever. I might rather move someplace else.
bigmoney - I was assuming write-off from property tax as well. But I heard about AMT which doesn't allow property taz write-off, and I honestly dont know if AMT will effect my tax situation. Also yes I didn't consider the income you would get from downpayment, but your $600 saving income will get tax.
crucialtaunt - I am not trying to narrowly arguing just to 'win' argument. I thought using a 7-year IO ARM was a reasonable comparison to current renting cost but maybe using 7-year IO was a bad example.
With 20% down and the payment of 30-year fixed at 6.5% is $3500. To make it simpler can we count on interest deduction to cover the cost of taxes, insurance, maintenance, and HOA? So it is a bit higher than current rent but it is certaintly not double?
Also I am mainly interested in local housing in Irvine. I dont know if assuming potential Irvine buyers putting down 20% is unreasonable, and I dont have statistic on Irvine home equity level.
So I agree that the housing price in Irvine right now seems a bit inflated and most likely I wouldn't buy if it was for investment. But for ownership I am willing to tolerate 10-15% drop down the road, knowing the price will eventually rise. But if the drop is going to be 50% then I might start loosing some sleep.
So hopefully we can quickly tell whether the drop will be significant in 6 months. With my personal situation, it would be very difficult to rent forever. I might rather move someplace else.
crucialtaunt_IHB
New member
<p>red: <em>So it is a bit higher than current rent but it is certaintly not double?</em></p>
<p>Again, I reiterate, there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat (but you cant' skin the same one twice !).</p>
<p>You asked the right questions yourself, and partially answered them...</p>
<p><em>"We can argue who can afford 20% downpayment to buy a house in Irvine?..."</em></p>
<p>I am sure there are plenty of people who could afford a 20% down payment on a 700k house, and still have enough liquid assets to tide them through any recessionary/job loss/income loss scenarios for a decent length of time (let's say your monthly expenses were $10k including housing, you should have at least 12 months reserve in case of emergencies, i.e., $120k liquid (as good as cash) assets. So someone who is buying in this market, should, in my personal view, have liquid assets of at least $140k down payment + $120k or roughly $250k to help cover the down payment and future emergencies.</p>
<p>OK- Now a <a href="http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?p=WEB2265RLB6QWQ">quick show of hands</a>, how many people can claim to have $250k in cash (or almost cash)? Please answer the anonymous survey - I will post the results back tomorrow.</p>
<p>Again, I reiterate, there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat (but you cant' skin the same one twice !).</p>
<p>You asked the right questions yourself, and partially answered them...</p>
<p><em>"We can argue who can afford 20% downpayment to buy a house in Irvine?..."</em></p>
<p>I am sure there are plenty of people who could afford a 20% down payment on a 700k house, and still have enough liquid assets to tide them through any recessionary/job loss/income loss scenarios for a decent length of time (let's say your monthly expenses were $10k including housing, you should have at least 12 months reserve in case of emergencies, i.e., $120k liquid (as good as cash) assets. So someone who is buying in this market, should, in my personal view, have liquid assets of at least $140k down payment + $120k or roughly $250k to help cover the down payment and future emergencies.</p>
<p>OK- Now a <a href="http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?p=WEB2265RLB6QWQ">quick show of hands</a>, how many people can claim to have $250k in cash (or almost cash)? Please answer the anonymous survey - I will post the results back tomorrow.</p>
bigmoneysalsa_IHB
New member
There <strong>are </strong>people in Irvine who can comfortably afford a 700K house. The problem is that almost all such people are likely in the top 15-20% of income earners, whereas a 700K house is about a median quality house. Call me greedy, but if I was in the top tier of income for Irvine I think I should be able to afford a top tier house.
crucialtaunt_IHB
New member
<p>Please take this "expectations" survey... Results will be posted to the forum soon!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?p=WEB2265RPA6SQQ">http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?p=WEB2265RPA6SQQ</a> </p>
<p>Just three basic questions to gauge what people are expecting to do if ready to purchase a house now....</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>crucialtaunt</p>
<p><a href="http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?p=WEB2265RPA6SQQ">http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?p=WEB2265RPA6SQQ</a> </p>
<p>Just three basic questions to gauge what people are expecting to do if ready to purchase a house now....</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>crucialtaunt</p>
crucialtaunt - not sure if your survey can give meaningful indication either way.
I was just pointing out that with downpayment of 20% or more, the cost of ownnership isn't that out of whack. I am not trying to get an quick answer soon.
I think we'll just have to wait and see. Spring/summer 2007 should tell us something right?
I was just pointing out that with downpayment of 20% or more, the cost of ownnership isn't that out of whack. I am not trying to get an quick answer soon.
I think we'll just have to wait and see. Spring/summer 2007 should tell us something right?
IrvineRenter_IHB
New member
" I think we'll just have to wait and see. Spring/summer 2007 should tell us something right?"
That is where I think we all agree. If we get a big increase in inventory and a spike of foreclosures signaling more inventory on the way. We will know real price declines are coming.
That is where I think we all agree. If we get a big increase in inventory and a spike of foreclosures signaling more inventory on the way. We will know real price declines are coming.
crucialtaunt_IHB
New member
<p><strong>Updated! - 2/20/2007, 12:56 pm</strong></p>
<p><strong>There were 53 visits and 37 completes.</strong></p>
<p>The <strong>final</strong> survey results are in! There were a big whoppin' <strong><u>37</u> responses</strong> (THANKS!!) so this not a big enough data set to base anything! But here is goes anyway... There were three questions on the survey:</p>
<p><em>1. Please state the approximate range of your <strong>liquid net worth</strong> in taxable accounts or trusts (i.e. outside of retirement accounts such as IRAs/401(k)/Roth-IRAs, outside of children's education funds such as 529's etc., and any qualified medical reimbursement accounts such as HSA etc.).</em></p>
<p><strong>28% - less than $100,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>36% - $100,000 to $250,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>33% - over $250,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>3% - Other: $3.2 M 1031 trust, savings</strong></p>
<p><em>2. If you were to purchase a house in the near future, what would be the <strong>approximate value of your down payment</strong>?</em></p>
<p><strong>22% - less than $50,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>11% - More than $50,000, but less than $100,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>25% - More than $100,000, but less than $150,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>6% - More than $140,000, but less than $250,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>31% - More than $250,000</strong></p>
<p>6% - Other i.e. (1) "The diff betw price and a $500,000 mortgage" and (2) "dependent upon house, looking for payment"</p>
<p> <em>3. With your down payment in mind, what is the <strong>range of house values that you would consider purchasing</strong>?</em></p>
<p><strong>19% - None, I am a bubble sitter</strong></p>
<p><strong>8% - $450,001 - $550,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>16% - $550,001 - $650,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>11% - $650,001 - $750,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>24% - $750,001 and above</strong></p>
<p><strong>3% - Other: "1mil -> 2mil"
</strong></p>
<p>Discuss...</p>
<p><strong>There were 53 visits and 37 completes.</strong></p>
<p>The <strong>final</strong> survey results are in! There were a big whoppin' <strong><u>37</u> responses</strong> (THANKS!!) so this not a big enough data set to base anything! But here is goes anyway... There were three questions on the survey:</p>
<p><em>1. Please state the approximate range of your <strong>liquid net worth</strong> in taxable accounts or trusts (i.e. outside of retirement accounts such as IRAs/401(k)/Roth-IRAs, outside of children's education funds such as 529's etc., and any qualified medical reimbursement accounts such as HSA etc.).</em></p>
<p><strong>28% - less than $100,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>36% - $100,000 to $250,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>33% - over $250,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>3% - Other: $3.2 M 1031 trust, savings</strong></p>
<p><em>2. If you were to purchase a house in the near future, what would be the <strong>approximate value of your down payment</strong>?</em></p>
<p><strong>22% - less than $50,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>11% - More than $50,000, but less than $100,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>25% - More than $100,000, but less than $150,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>6% - More than $140,000, but less than $250,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>31% - More than $250,000</strong></p>
<p>6% - Other i.e. (1) "The diff betw price and a $500,000 mortgage" and (2) "dependent upon house, looking for payment"</p>
<p> <em>3. With your down payment in mind, what is the <strong>range of house values that you would consider purchasing</strong>?</em></p>
<p><strong>19% - None, I am a bubble sitter</strong></p>
<p><strong>8% - $450,001 - $550,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>16% - $550,001 - $650,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>11% - $650,001 - $750,000</strong></p>
<p><strong>24% - $750,001 and above</strong></p>
<p><strong>3% - Other: "1mil -> 2mil"
</strong></p>
<p>Discuss...</p>
IrvineRenter_IHB
New member
Interesting. Doesn't look like the profile of a group of poor, bitter renters.
EvaLSeraphim_IHB
New member
...
crucialtaunt_IHB
New member
Look for an updated version of the survey above (same thread entry edited) as more people take the survey...
IrvineRenter -
I certainly wouldn't label you a bitter renter. But I can certainly understand why so many people have become bitter seeing recent home price appreciation, and your housing crash speculation does provide hope to many bitter renters and bubble sitters. I know you mean well and want to educate as many people about the risk of housing crash and I think you have done a great job.
The truth is many experts still disagree and only a few predict a housing crash as bad as yours. Some predict that our economy would suffer greatly if housing does crash which isn't good for many people.
I am not as articulate and dont have good writing skills so I am not even gonna try to explain soft-landing. But for what it's worth I'd like to share an article from recent Harvard study so hopefully people can make a better decision.
"Harvard study says there may be bumps along the way, but that the long-term health of the housing market is intact."
http://<a href="http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/13/real_estate/Harvard_study_housing_slow_growth/index.htm">money.cnn.com/2006/06/13/real_estate/Harvard_study_housing_slow_growth/index.htm</a>
I certainly wouldn't label you a bitter renter. But I can certainly understand why so many people have become bitter seeing recent home price appreciation, and your housing crash speculation does provide hope to many bitter renters and bubble sitters. I know you mean well and want to educate as many people about the risk of housing crash and I think you have done a great job.
The truth is many experts still disagree and only a few predict a housing crash as bad as yours. Some predict that our economy would suffer greatly if housing does crash which isn't good for many people.
I am not as articulate and dont have good writing skills so I am not even gonna try to explain soft-landing. But for what it's worth I'd like to share an article from recent Harvard study so hopefully people can make a better decision.
"Harvard study says there may be bumps along the way, but that the long-term health of the housing market is intact."
http://<a href="http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/13/real_estate/Harvard_study_housing_slow_growth/index.htm">money.cnn.com/2006/06/13/real_estate/Harvard_study_housing_slow_growth/index.htm</a>
WantToLiveInIrvine_IHB
New member
<p>Red:v This article is from June, don't you think its a little outdated?</p>