I owe the IHB an apology, and accurate current milk pricing - IMPORTANT
- Thread starter no_vaseline_IHB
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EvaLSeraphim_IHB
New member
Happy cows come from . . . <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_cows_odd">Norway???</a>
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
<a href="http://www.latimes.com/features/food/la-fo-citrus23-2009sep23,0,395561.story">http://www.latimes.com/features/food/la-fo-citrus23-2009sep23,0,395561.story</a>
<blockquote>A month after the discovery of Asian citrus psyllids in Santa Ana and Echo Park, state and county plant health authorities are scrambling to implement new regulations for citrus growers who sell at farmers markets in affected areas.
The measures are designed to contain the psyllid, a tiny insect that could transmit huanglongbing, a bacterial disease deadly to citrus trees; the disease has not yet appeared in California but has devastated groves in Florida and around the world.
To protect against the psyllid, there is a quarantine in effect that restricts the movement of citrus trees and fruit in Los Angeles and Orange counties, southern San Diego County, western Imperial County and a small portion of Riverside County near the Salton Sea that restricts the movement of citrus trees and fruit from those areas.
Most citrus for sale at Southern California farmers markets comes from areas outside the current quarantine, including the San Joaquin Valley, Ventura County, northern San Diego County and most of Riverside County.
Because psyllids feed on citrus leaves and stems, those parts are the primary focus of concern. Vicki Bernard, who grows citrus in Riverside and Valley Center, says she was told by the California Department of Food and Agriculture that to continue selling citrus at Los Angeles County farmers markets she would need to strip off all such green matter, as well as make sure the fruit was free from dirt and debris. "That's a little bit of extra work, but no big deal," she says.
</blockquote>
The fact an obscure pest like this is in the mainstream news makes it a huge deal.
<blockquote>A month after the discovery of Asian citrus psyllids in Santa Ana and Echo Park, state and county plant health authorities are scrambling to implement new regulations for citrus growers who sell at farmers markets in affected areas.
The measures are designed to contain the psyllid, a tiny insect that could transmit huanglongbing, a bacterial disease deadly to citrus trees; the disease has not yet appeared in California but has devastated groves in Florida and around the world.
To protect against the psyllid, there is a quarantine in effect that restricts the movement of citrus trees and fruit in Los Angeles and Orange counties, southern San Diego County, western Imperial County and a small portion of Riverside County near the Salton Sea that restricts the movement of citrus trees and fruit from those areas.
Most citrus for sale at Southern California farmers markets comes from areas outside the current quarantine, including the San Joaquin Valley, Ventura County, northern San Diego County and most of Riverside County.
Because psyllids feed on citrus leaves and stems, those parts are the primary focus of concern. Vicki Bernard, who grows citrus in Riverside and Valley Center, says she was told by the California Department of Food and Agriculture that to continue selling citrus at Los Angeles County farmers markets she would need to strip off all such green matter, as well as make sure the fruit was free from dirt and debris. "That's a little bit of extra work, but no big deal," she says.
</blockquote>
The fact an obscure pest like this is in the mainstream news makes it a huge deal.
graphrix_IHB
New member
^^^ You really should come over and tell me why my lime trees suck but the lemon tree is a beast.
I couldn't help but think of no_vas when I cursed him on the fact that I would probably never <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125349565131026737.html">read this article</a>, if it weren't for him and his obsession with the price of milk.
Damn you no_vas! Now I read articles about you damn farmers and post them here.
I couldn't help but think of no_vas when I cursed him on the fact that I would probably never <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125349565131026737.html">read this article</a>, if it weren't for him and his obsession with the price of milk.
Damn you no_vas! Now I read articles about you damn farmers and post them here.
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
When I farmed grapes, there was an increase in concentration on the grocery stores side. The net effect is the average price per box received by the grower went down 25% and the average price to the consumer at the grocery store went up 25%. Too bad we had the regulatory wind to our faces in 2000.
Mish's old posts aren't archived (that I know of) and he wrote about the exact topic Graph cited. His conclusion was (I'm paraphrasing since I can't find the cite) "Why do I owe the grower a right to be in business and be profitable? The problem is obviously overproduction."
Within a day or two he was lamenting the problems we've had with food contamination issues from...China. "Do you really want to eat this stuff?"
What the hell does he think is gonna happen if you cut off subsidies and run off the domestic production (to China)? Maybe they overproduce, maybe not ? they had too much milk in 1983 and the whole industry didn?t get this sick.
Mish?s duplicity was underwhelming to say the least, but he's not alone, and that's worse.
Mish's old posts aren't archived (that I know of) and he wrote about the exact topic Graph cited. His conclusion was (I'm paraphrasing since I can't find the cite) "Why do I owe the grower a right to be in business and be profitable? The problem is obviously overproduction."
Within a day or two he was lamenting the problems we've had with food contamination issues from...China. "Do you really want to eat this stuff?"
What the hell does he think is gonna happen if you cut off subsidies and run off the domestic production (to China)? Maybe they overproduce, maybe not ? they had too much milk in 1983 and the whole industry didn?t get this sick.
Mish?s duplicity was underwhelming to say the least, but he's not alone, and that's worse.
EvaLSeraphim_IHB
New member
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1253825041]Mish?s duplicity was underwhelming to say the least, but he's not alone, and that's worse.</blockquote>
I have long wondered whether his popularity was due to his analysis or his opinion. I have stopped driving up his page views.
And really, simply "overproduction?" With that kind of deep analytical thinking why do we need PhDs at USDA or food policy folks at all? It's so obvious!
{Sorry. I got my cranky pants on this morning because farking BK came by with the lawn mower, edger, and leaf blower all before 7 a.m.}
I have long wondered whether his popularity was due to his analysis or his opinion. I have stopped driving up his page views.
And really, simply "overproduction?" With that kind of deep analytical thinking why do we need PhDs at USDA or food policy folks at all? It's so obvious!
{Sorry. I got my cranky pants on this morning because farking BK came by with the lawn mower, edger, and leaf blower all before 7 a.m.}
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
F&E was my fav. store to shop at. I still like it, but....it has problems.
<a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fresh7-2009oct07,0,793190.story">http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fresh7-2009oct07,0,793190.story</a>
<blockquote>Fresh & Easy Neighborhood Market's trademark apple logo may be green, but the chain of small grocery stores is bleeding red ink.
Tesco, the British parent of the 130-store company, said Tuesday that its American division would lose about $259 million this year, or about $2 million for each of its stores</blockquote>
Ouch. That's a brush under $6,000 a day per store. Grocery stores (in the US) work on razor thin margins and work on volume.
<blockquote>Other retail experts were more critical.
"Everything has gone awry from store operations to pricing to variety and selection to their locations. You could not do much worse unless you did it on purpose," said David J. Livingston, a Waukesha, Wis., grocery industry consultant. "They were arrogant and totally misjudged the American consumer."</blockquote>
Double ouch.
The big boys were complaining about missing thier numbers because of "deflation". Here's a sample:
<a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090915-708463.html">http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090915-708463.html</a>
<blockquote>NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Kroger Co. (KR) saw deflation in "most grocery categories" for the first time in several quarters, according to Chief Operating Officer Rodney McMullen.
Prices continued to fall sharply in <strong>dairy and produce </strong>and extended to a number of other categories in Kroger's fiscal second-quarter.
The price declines help Kroger sell more products, but revenue was pressured.</blockquote>
Ahem. There. Is. No. Inflation. Not for dairymen - Mish be damned.
Last year my dad got a handshake deal for cannery tomatos at $80 a ton for this season. This year.......we are in October and there are no contracts being offered at any price.
<a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fresh7-2009oct07,0,793190.story">http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fresh7-2009oct07,0,793190.story</a>
<blockquote>Fresh & Easy Neighborhood Market's trademark apple logo may be green, but the chain of small grocery stores is bleeding red ink.
Tesco, the British parent of the 130-store company, said Tuesday that its American division would lose about $259 million this year, or about $2 million for each of its stores</blockquote>
Ouch. That's a brush under $6,000 a day per store. Grocery stores (in the US) work on razor thin margins and work on volume.
<blockquote>Other retail experts were more critical.
"Everything has gone awry from store operations to pricing to variety and selection to their locations. You could not do much worse unless you did it on purpose," said David J. Livingston, a Waukesha, Wis., grocery industry consultant. "They were arrogant and totally misjudged the American consumer."</blockquote>
Double ouch.
The big boys were complaining about missing thier numbers because of "deflation". Here's a sample:
<a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090915-708463.html">http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090915-708463.html</a>
<blockquote>NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Kroger Co. (KR) saw deflation in "most grocery categories" for the first time in several quarters, according to Chief Operating Officer Rodney McMullen.
Prices continued to fall sharply in <strong>dairy and produce </strong>and extended to a number of other categories in Kroger's fiscal second-quarter.
The price declines help Kroger sell more products, but revenue was pressured.</blockquote>
Ahem. There. Is. No. Inflation. Not for dairymen - Mish be damned.
Last year my dad got a handshake deal for cannery tomatos at $80 a ton for this season. This year.......we are in October and there are no contracts being offered at any price.
SoCal78_IHB
New member
No_Vas, I was thinking of you today when I was eating Smokehouse Almonds. Yum. I wondered who Blue Diamond's growers are and I <a href="http://www.bluediamond.com/index.cfm?navid=65">found this</a> list on their site. I wonder if you know any of them. It looks like they come from all over central and northern California.
SoCal78_IHB
New member
OMG. When I saw this, I knew I had to put it in the milk thread. 
<a href="http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/07/farmer-causes-udder-chaos-in-brussels/">From TMZ:</a>
Farmer Causes Udder Chaos in Brussels
"A farmer used his cow as a weapon and sprayed cops with milk during a protest in Brussels the other day.
<img src="http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tmz.com/media/2009/10/1006_cow_91451019.jpg" alt="" />
The protest was over the falling leche prices in Europe.
Milk doesn't always do the body good."
<a href="http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/07/farmer-causes-udder-chaos-in-brussels/">From TMZ:</a>
Farmer Causes Udder Chaos in Brussels
"A farmer used his cow as a weapon and sprayed cops with milk during a protest in Brussels the other day.
<img src="http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tmz.com/media/2009/10/1006_cow_91451019.jpg" alt="" />
The protest was over the falling leche prices in Europe.
Milk doesn't always do the body good."
EvaLSeraphim_IHB
New member
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1254912571]F&E was my fav. store to shop at. I still like it, but....it has problems.
<a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fresh7-2009oct07,0,793190.story">http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fresh7-2009oct07,0,793190.story</a>
<blockquote>Fresh & Easy Neighborhood Market's trademark apple logo may be green, but the chain of small grocery stores is bleeding red ink.
Tesco, the British parent of the 130-store company, said Tuesday that its American division would lose about $259 million this year, or about $2 million for each of its stores</blockquote>
Ouch. That's a brush under $6,000 a day per store. Grocery stores (in the US) work on razor thin margins and work on volume.
<blockquote>Other retail experts were more critical.
"Everything has gone awry from store operations to pricing to variety and selection to their locations. You could not do much worse unless you did it on purpose," said David J. Livingston, a Waukesha, Wis., grocery industry consultant. "They were arrogant and totally misjudged the American consumer."</blockquote>
Double ouch.</blockquote>
The next time we see you, my +1 can give you more details. At least two of their issues are lack of focus and not knowing which customer segment they want to chase.
<a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fresh7-2009oct07,0,793190.story">http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fresh7-2009oct07,0,793190.story</a>
<blockquote>Fresh & Easy Neighborhood Market's trademark apple logo may be green, but the chain of small grocery stores is bleeding red ink.
Tesco, the British parent of the 130-store company, said Tuesday that its American division would lose about $259 million this year, or about $2 million for each of its stores</blockquote>
Ouch. That's a brush under $6,000 a day per store. Grocery stores (in the US) work on razor thin margins and work on volume.
<blockquote>Other retail experts were more critical.
"Everything has gone awry from store operations to pricing to variety and selection to their locations. You could not do much worse unless you did it on purpose," said David J. Livingston, a Waukesha, Wis., grocery industry consultant. "They were arrogant and totally misjudged the American consumer."</blockquote>
Double ouch.</blockquote>
The next time we see you, my +1 can give you more details. At least two of their issues are lack of focus and not knowing which customer segment they want to chase.
graphrix_IHB
New member
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1254915500]OMG. When I saw this, I knew I had to put it in the milk thread.
<a href="http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/07/farmer-causes-udder-chaos-in-brussels/">From TMZ:</a>
Farmer Causes Udder Chaos in Brussels
"A farmer used his cow as a weapon and sprayed cops with milk during a protest in Brussels the other day.
<img src="http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tmz.com/media/2009/10/1006_cow_91451019.jpg" alt="" />
The protest was over the falling leche prices in Europe.
Milk doesn't always do the body good."</blockquote>
You think that is bad, that was the cover picture on the WSJ today, er yesterday. No seriously, I will scan it if you all don't believe me.
<a href="http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/07/farmer-causes-udder-chaos-in-brussels/">From TMZ:</a>
Farmer Causes Udder Chaos in Brussels
"A farmer used his cow as a weapon and sprayed cops with milk during a protest in Brussels the other day.
<img src="http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tmz.com/media/2009/10/1006_cow_91451019.jpg" alt="" />
The protest was over the falling leche prices in Europe.
Milk doesn't always do the body good."</blockquote>
You think that is bad, that was the cover picture on the WSJ today, er yesterday. No seriously, I will scan it if you all don't believe me.
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1254914574]No_Vas, I was thinking of you today when I was eating Smokehouse Almonds. Yum. I wondered who Blue Diamond's growers are and I <a href="http://www.bluediamond.com/index.cfm?navid=65">found this</a> list on their site. I wonder if you know any of them. It looks like they come from all over central and northern California.</blockquote>
Blue Diamond is the big boy on the block. Ours go to Harris-Woolf.
<a href="http://www.harriswoolfalmonds.com/">http://www.harriswoolfalmonds.com/</a>
Eva,
I believe it. There whole wine selection is now under $15. I think they are quickly figuring out why nobody has gone after (ignored) the bottom tier market segement they seem to be aiming for before them - you simply can't make a profit on them. No kidding there are no grocery stores in South Central.
Blue Diamond is the big boy on the block. Ours go to Harris-Woolf.
<a href="http://www.harriswoolfalmonds.com/">http://www.harriswoolfalmonds.com/</a>
Eva,
I believe it. There whole wine selection is now under $15. I think they are quickly figuring out why nobody has gone after (ignored) the bottom tier market segement they seem to be aiming for before them - you simply can't make a profit on them. No kidding there are no grocery stores in South Central.
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
<a href="http://www.cnbc.com/id/33290274">Per CNBC - CA Wine growers - in the red.</a>
Somehow it feels like 2001 all over again in the grape business...
<blockquote>"I think we're going to see a lot more Two Buck Chucks hitting the market," says John Krska of Krska Vineyard and Winery Management. "We have some winemakers who've skipped a whole vintage, and that's to get their warehouses caught up to sell wine." For example, Krska says high-quality Chardonnay grapes <em>usually sell for $2,700 to $3,500 a ton</em>. But this year, low-to-mid quality Chardonnay grapes in other parts of the state <em>can be had for only $200 a ton</em>. "If the wineries up north can't sell that, they're paying for tank space and the refrigeration, it's gone for a buck a gallon," to Trader Joe's. </blockquote>
Looks like there are no contracts in wine grapes next year either.
Somehow it feels like 2001 all over again in the grape business...
<blockquote>"I think we're going to see a lot more Two Buck Chucks hitting the market," says John Krska of Krska Vineyard and Winery Management. "We have some winemakers who've skipped a whole vintage, and that's to get their warehouses caught up to sell wine." For example, Krska says high-quality Chardonnay grapes <em>usually sell for $2,700 to $3,500 a ton</em>. But this year, low-to-mid quality Chardonnay grapes in other parts of the state <em>can be had for only $200 a ton</em>. "If the wineries up north can't sell that, they're paying for tank space and the refrigeration, it's gone for a buck a gallon," to Trader Joe's. </blockquote>
Looks like there are no contracts in wine grapes next year either.
Nude_IHB
New member
Our drive from Seattle to Barstow was educational. Farms and farmland for sale along every mile of the 5 north of Sacramento, plenty of "congress created this dust bowl" signs amid fallow fields and dead trees, and an amazing amount of new (since my last trip through in 2002) sprawl around Bakersfield. My wife was stunned to learn a) how much food California actually produces, b) that there is a water shortage with an aqueduct "right there", and c) that no one has told Southern California to figure it out and blown the damn thing to smithereens.
I did have one question: How many almond trees do you people need? Sheesh.
I did have one question: How many almond trees do you people need? Sheesh.
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
[quote author="Nude" date=1255494167]I did have one question: How many almond trees do you people need? Sheesh.</blockquote>
California is about 80% of the world's supply of almonds. You saw most of them...
Two years ago there was a shortage and the price for almonds was so good you could pay for the land, the development costs, cultivation, you name it in a single year off a single crop and still have a tidy profit. That is not the situation today.
California is about 80% of the world's supply of almonds. You saw most of them...
Two years ago there was a shortage and the price for almonds was so good you could pay for the land, the development costs, cultivation, you name it in a single year off a single crop and still have a tidy profit. That is not the situation today.
Nude_IHB
New member
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1255505020][quote author="Nude" date=1255494167]I did have one question: How many almond trees do you people need? Sheesh.</blockquote>
California is about 80% of the world's supply of almonds. You saw most of them...
Two years ago there was a shortage and the price for almonds was so good you could pay for the land, the development costs, cultivation, you name it in a single year off a single crop and still have a tidy profit. That is not the situation today.</blockquote>
Clearly, some people have learned that lesson: entire groves were being bulldozed.
California is about 80% of the world's supply of almonds. You saw most of them...
Two years ago there was a shortage and the price for almonds was so good you could pay for the land, the development costs, cultivation, you name it in a single year off a single crop and still have a tidy profit. That is not the situation today.</blockquote>
Clearly, some people have learned that lesson: entire groves were being bulldozed.
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
[quote author="Nude" date=1255512112][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1255505020][quote author="Nude" date=1255494167]I did have one question: How many almond trees do you people need? Sheesh.</blockquote>
California is about 80% of the world's supply of almonds. You saw most of them...
Two years ago there was a shortage and the price for almonds was so good you could pay for the land, the development costs, cultivation, you name it in a single year off a single crop and still have a tidy profit. That is not the situation today.</blockquote>
Clearly, some people have learned that lesson: entire groves were being bulldozed.</blockquote>
I don't know exactly what you saw, some of those removals are economic, some are because the trees are 20-25 years old and at the end of thier lifespan, and other are because of the water situation. Some of the trees you saw were likely not almonds. I haven't driven north of Coalinga on the I-5 in four or five years so I can't really say.
The guys at Harris Woolf told me Harris Farms had 10% the employees in 2009 they did in 2008.
California is about 80% of the world's supply of almonds. You saw most of them...
Two years ago there was a shortage and the price for almonds was so good you could pay for the land, the development costs, cultivation, you name it in a single year off a single crop and still have a tidy profit. That is not the situation today.</blockquote>
Clearly, some people have learned that lesson: entire groves were being bulldozed.</blockquote>
I don't know exactly what you saw, some of those removals are economic, some are because the trees are 20-25 years old and at the end of thier lifespan, and other are because of the water situation. Some of the trees you saw were likely not almonds. I haven't driven north of Coalinga on the I-5 in four or five years so I can't really say.
The guys at Harris Woolf told me Harris Farms had 10% the employees in 2009 they did in 2008.
EvaLSeraphim_IHB
New member
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1255515336]The guys at Harris Woolf told me Harris Farms had 10% the employees in 2009 they did in 2008.</blockquote>
Wow...
I can't find it now, but there was a story in the LA Times a few months back about one of the small CV towns and how it had been hit by the housing bust along with farming problems and that unemployment was around 40%. It was so very, very sad.
Wow...
I can't find it now, but there was a story in the LA Times a few months back about one of the small CV towns and how it had been hit by the housing bust along with farming problems and that unemployment was around 40%. It was so very, very sad.
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
That unemployment rate is common in those towns, even in the best of times. Such is seasonal work.
Nude_IHB
New member
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1255515336][quote author="Nude" date=1255512112]Clearly, some people have learned that lesson: entire groves were being bulldozed.</blockquote>
I don't know exactly what you saw, some of those removals are economic, some are because the trees are 20-25 years old and at the end of thier lifespan, and other are because of the water situation. Some of the trees you saw were likely not almonds. I haven't driven north of Coalinga on the I-5 in four or five years so I can't really say.
The guys at Harris Woolf told me Harris Farms had 10% the employees in 2009 they did in 2008.</blockquote>
I'm no botanist, I freely admit that, but even I know the difference between almond, walnut, pomegranate, olive, apple, pear, and orange trees.
I don't know exactly what you saw, some of those removals are economic, some are because the trees are 20-25 years old and at the end of thier lifespan, and other are because of the water situation. Some of the trees you saw were likely not almonds. I haven't driven north of Coalinga on the I-5 in four or five years so I can't really say.
The guys at Harris Woolf told me Harris Farms had 10% the employees in 2009 they did in 2008.</blockquote>
I'm no botanist, I freely admit that, but even I know the difference between almond, walnut, pomegranate, olive, apple, pear, and orange trees.