How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...

[homer_simpson]

blacklist for what?

 

[ps99472]

From my broker:

For Chase, once you hit day 180 from their purchase date, you name disappears and you become a brand new ps9.  I let some people do it because I know they will never do another refi in years.  But you are your own special case.

 

[Irvine Dream]

Looks like I'm refi'ing too much, my broker just said we have to wait a few days to stay off Chase's blacklist, even though we're greenlight to close today.

Also hasn't the mortgage rates gone up by about 0.25% in the last two weeks?

 

[The Motor Court Company]

ps9,
so your new lender is NOT Chase, but plan to sell your loan to Chase, and you had a loan with Chase in the last 180 days, you cannot proceed with your refi?

How does waiting an extra couple days make any difference?

 

[ps99472]

ps9,
so your new lender is NOT Chase, but plan to sell your loan to Chase, and you had a loan with Chase in the last 180 days, you cannot proceed with your refi?

How does waiting an extra couple days make any difference?

The bank is Chase, current loan and also future loan.  Residential Wholesale immediately moves it to CHASE after COE.  I believe what my broker is trying to say is Chase will blacklist people who refi too frequently.  I'm on the books with Chase because my last refi was less than a year, so in a few days I will come off the 180 days list and when I close escrow Chase will not flag me as a repeat refiler. 

 

[The Motor Court Company]

so the key is too many refis with Chase? it only takes two loans (current + future) with Chase to be flagged? Or you have other old loan(s) with Chase?

I am asking this because I just found out my new mortgage is now with Chase, and if I refi again and the new lender plans to move the loan to Chase, I will be on the blacklist? so that means I am blocked from doing any refis with lenders that would move the loan to Chase?

ps9,
so your new lender is NOT Chase, but plan to sell your loan to Chase, and you had a loan with Chase in the last 180 days, you cannot proceed with your refi?

How does waiting an extra couple days make any difference?

The bank is Chase, current loan and also future loan.  Residential Wholesale immediately moves it to CHASE after COE.  I believe what my broker is trying to say is Chase will blacklist people who refi too frequently.  I'm on the books with Chase because my last refi was less than a year, so in a few days I will come off the 180 days list and when I close escrow Chase will not flag me as a repeat refiler.

 

[ps99472]

Reviewing closing docs... looks like this time they want me to pay off my 2nd half property taxes due on 2/1/15 but deliquent in April... there goes the grace period. 

Also notice the ALTA loan policy is $1150 which is almost twice as much as my previous refi.  Comparing escrow/title fees this time around, looks like about $700 more with Granite (my choosing) versus going with Fidelity (lender's pick) from my previous refi.  I though escrow/title charges are regulated??  But to have such a big gap....

 

[The Motor Court Company]

ps9,
I am not sure there is really a blacklist from Chase. Did you get your current loan from Residential Wholesale as well? Paying off current loan that is not 180 day old, Residential Wholesale will get hit with an EPO (early pay off) charge from Chase, the clawback that SGIP mentioned. Since you are just days short of clearing 180 days, it is in their best interest to wait. I think that's what the broker meant she will let some people do it (she gets hit with an EPO) because these people don't refi often. But you, being a serial refier, if you do a refi with her every 180 days or less, at best she is doing it for free but at worst it would cost her dearly.

I think some broker treats EPO charges as cost of business, as rates can fall or changes in the borrower's circumstances so they accept it. However, if the borrower must do it, the broker will want the borrower to do it with them, not with a new company for obvious reasons; they will get hit with an EPO, but at least they make it up by doing the new loan.
Obviously that doesn't apply to PS9

 

[ps99472]

Probably, who knows, she's been upfront with me so far, if she's truly worried about the clawback, she would've told me, I'm ok with waiting, 45 day lock and we're 15 days early.

 

[sgip]

ps9 - Taxes are payable when you're within 30 days of your 1st payment. Given when you're thinking of closing, your first payment will likely 4/1/15.

As for Title and Escrow, those fees are X in the Good Faith Estimate. If they are X+ at closing, the lender or escrow (whomoever misquoted at the initial GFE)  has to eat that cost. Review your initial GFE as either those final costs were correctly disclosed up front, or someone's got some 'splanin to do at the lender or escrow.

My .02c

 

[The Motor Court Company]

SGIP,
correct me if I am wrong, but if the borrower chooses his/her own title and escrow company (what PS9 did here, using USC's rec?), the lender is no longer bounded by the original GFE for title service and lender insurance fees. if the borrower uses the one the lender identified, then it cannot go higher than X+10%.

ps9 - Taxes are payable when you're within 30 days of your 1st payment. Given when you're thinking of closing, your first payment will likely 4/1/15.

As for Title and Escrow, those fees are X in the Good Faith Estimate. If they are X+ at closing, the lender or escrow (whomoever misquoted at the initial GFE)  has to eat that cost. Review your initial GFE as either those final costs were correctly disclosed up front, or someone's got some 'splanin to do at the lender or escrow.

My .02c

 

[sgip]

Yes. That is true. Once GFE fees are disclosed, the service providers are bound to them, and in only specific situations can they be increased. If you choose an outside service, the fees can change. If outside services do change their fees, it's possible to force them to go back to a market price, or simply switch back to the lenders preferred closing service which at that time would be lower.

It's pretty rare for a service provider to move their fees around by much. It's possible that one disclosure (in house) is generated for X cost, then when switching to an outside service the disclosures then say X+Y, then at closing the outside services are X+Y2 which would be very surprising, since most clients choose outside companies on a cost basis.

 

[The Motor Court Company]

Thank you SGIP. I must have read it wrong on my GFE:

 

[sgip]

I was channelling my inner Brian Williams at the time of my original post, misremembering that this was a discussion on refinances, not purchases. My career focus has been on purchases, not refi's, which adds to the fog of this discussion.

If you purchase a house, and use closing services that the seller didn't recommend, and if their costs to close are higher at closing than what's on the GFE, the lender/escrow has to eat the difference. It doesn't matter if it's a recommended provider by the Seller or not.

If you refinance and don't use the lenders preferred services, but decide to use an outsider service, the terms from the outside service can change outside of the 10% tolerance, but likely not to given that most outside services were chosen on a price basis.

Did you know I was at the Brandenburg Gate, staring down the barrel of an RPG, while saving a Kitten during a Hurricane as Bin Laden was killed? I also saw Morgan Fairchild....who's my wife... naked.... Yeah, that's the ticket!

 

[ps99472]

Escrow emailed back, looks like they made a mistake?  Stated my lender is on the preferred list, so now the ALTA policy is $660 instead of $1100

 

[Irvine Dream]

Escrow emailed back, looks like they made a mistake?  Stated my lender is on the preferred list, so now the ALTA policy is $660 instead of $1100

Awesome.  Time to splurge that money on your better half for Valentine's Day (or on food ;D)

 

[ps99472]

So Morgan Stanley emailed back, it is for jumbo loans only, margin is 1.875% (1.75 for <60%LTV, FICO>740), a no cost refi with enough credits to cover closing costs will increase rates to 2.25%.  No impounds.

Alyson also has an IO product, details to come.

Can you forward me the MS contact info name? 

I was rereading the Morgan Stanley email sent to me, looks like I got it confused:

Margin is 1.875%, 1-Month LIBOR is currently around 0.168 (lucky!), so the rate would be 2.00% (rounded up or down to the nearest 1/8th).  To cover closing costs, I was quoted 2.25% with me getting 1pt offset at closing.  Don't need that much to cover costs, so then he suggested a half point at closing, which brings the rate to 2.00%.  If you have FICO > 740 and LTV < 60% the rate then becomes 1.90%

Does that make sense?  I'm assuming the margin of 1.875% is for no cost refi's.  1.625% is for loans with closing costs.  I'll have to check with Morgan Stanley on this.  Still no impounds, no prepayment penalties, PHH will service the loan but Morgan Stanley holds it in its portfolio.

If this all holds up, I don't see why I woudn't do it.  If LIBOR rates stay low, I'll probably never have to refi again (gasp!) and be able to pay off a significant amount of principal in 10 years. 

I PM'd you the contact.  I gotta do some more research on this, plus can't really do much since I'm already in a refi.  Hopefully this product is still around in 3 months

Alyson emailed back, her IO product is nowhere as good as this, believe the rate is 3.5% no cost for 5/1 IO LIBOR (margin 2.5%).

Here's the confirmation from Morgan Stanley:

Mr. ps9,



Please see my answers below.  I also wanted to make sure that I mentioned a qualification requirement for our interest only products.  We would need to verify in the processing of the loan that you have $500,000 in marketable securities and cash.  These funds can be in a checking account, a savings account, an investment account, or retirement accounts.  Please let me know if you have any questions.  When is your other loan expected to close?  Thank you.



1)      Confirmed.  The rate with a $3,300 credit offset would be 1.90%(1.875%+1 month LIBOR(rounded up or down to the nearest 1/8th ) and then .10% is deducted for LTV<60% and FICO of 740+)

2)      If you pay the closing costs, the rate would come down to 1.65%(1.625%+1 month LIBOR(rounded up or down to the nearest 1/8th ) and then .10% is deducted for LTV<60% and FICO of 740+)

3)      We could immediately start the process once your other refinance closes

This looks pretty good,  the half million in accounts is weird, must be a MS thing, no other lender has mentioned this before, maybe 6 months PITI but not half million.  It's like we'll give you this kick ass rate only if you have an escape route.

@USC/bones

Did you guys jump in on this IO product?  I'm about done with my current refi.  1 mo. LIBOR has been trending up, currently .174, but not enough to change the rate, still have to go up by .014 before we go from 2% to 2.125%. 

 

[rkp]

I would be tossing and turning at night if I ever go back to a 30 yr.  Refi from a 30 to a 30 is even worse. 

Why worse?  We are refi'ing 2 years into a new 30 year and will continue paying the same amount we were paying and instead of paying it off in 28 years from now, we will pay it off in 26 years...2 years saved for a few hours of work.  Why is that a bad thing?

Because you restart the clock on a 30 yr, most painful in the first 5 years as 2/3 of your monthly goes to interest.  What is your interest rate before and after the refi?  And if you refi 2 years into your 30 year, why didn't you consider a 5/1????

I encourage my customers to refi their new 30 fixed as a 29 or 23 year  (AKA "same payoff") term loans. Refinancing a 28 year loan into a new 30 may be the right decision for some, but it will always cost more in the long run unless you decide to prepay agressively. Example of a "same payoff" refi:

If you continue making the same payments as before the refi, wouldnt you pretty much end at the same time?  My real world example:

$625,500 - 3.75% fixed 30 year loan  - June 2012-June 2042 <--- $2894.47 per month
$595,918 - 3.625% fixed 30 year loan  - Feb 2015-Feb 2045 <--- $2736.31 per month

If I make the same payment as I did before the refi, ie overpaying by $176.78 per month, I would pay off by Dec 2041.  So instead of June 2042, I payoff 6 months earlier.  As it was a no-cost refi, I basically saved over $17000 for a few hours of paperwork.  Why is this a bad thing?

 

[The Motor Court Company]

EU and Greece reached agreement for 4 month extension. it looks like the rates have officially bottomed at end of January, with very few external forces that can bring it down on the horizon.

 

[Rice Vino]

Dick Bove says banks don't make money writing mortgage paper as the feds back away from it:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/money/dick-bove-theres-a-new-mortgage-crisis-brewing/ar-BBhT6YY

Rates surged this week about 1/8th.