HOLY SMOKES : Did i read this right? Dow below 10,000 S&P;1,100 Nasdaq 1500. Is this possible by October?

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[quote author="PANDA" date=1222757993][quote author="ventouxbob" date=1222755332]yes I know of something good. The CUBS!!! holy Cow. second year in a row in play offs.



-The CUBS</blockquote>


I have to say that I know another thing that is good. If you love bargain shopping like me, everything is on SALE in your local shopping mall. My wife and I buy new clothes practically twice a year, and last weekend Ms. Panda and I went all out... I mean 70% OFF at Ann Taylor, 50% OFF at Express, 30% OFF Everything at Banana Republic...



If you love quality brands at discount prices, this is the time to go shopping!!!!



Does True Religion Jeans ever go on SALE????</blockquote>


The very last thing I will do is go on a spending binge. I am selling useless crap on craigs list.



Riding the bike to work and or too the store, market coffee shop. home cooking not resturant. we are on full spending shut down. save save save.



right now we are saving 50% of our net income.
 
[quote author="ventouxbob" date=1222821069][quote author="PANDA" date=1222757993][quote author="ventouxbob" date=1222755332]yes I know of something good. The CUBS!!! holy Cow. second year in a row in play offs.



-The CUBS</blockquote>


I have to say that I know another thing that is good. If you love bargain shopping like me, everything is on SALE in your local shopping mall. My wife and I buy new clothes practically twice a year, and last weekend Ms. Panda and I went all out... I mean 70% OFF at Ann Taylor, 50% OFF at Express, 30% OFF Everything at Banana Republic...



If you love quality brands at discount prices, this is the time to go shopping!!!!



Does True Religion Jeans ever go on SALE????</blockquote>


The very last thing I will do is go on a spending binge. I am selling useless crap on craigs list.



Riding the bike to work and or too the store, market coffee shop. home cooking not resturant. we are on full spending shut down. save save save.



right now we are saving 50% of our net income.</blockquote>


I'm with you. My wife and I pretty much cut off many little luxuries that cost money. We figure by paying off debt we increase our income as well as increase from our employers. Its like a double edged sword working your way. After two years of paying down all our debt, we have more income that we know what to do with. Once a kid comes on board I'm sure that will change, but we feel good where we are at.



We take the train to work, grind our own coffee and cook almost everyday as well. Its actually fun to cook and freshly ground coffee tastes better too.
 
[quote author="blackvault" date=1222824091][quote author="ventouxbob" date=1222821069][quote author="PANDA" date=1222757993][quote author="ventouxbob" date=1222755332]yes I know of something good. The CUBS!!! holy Cow. second year in a row in play offs.



-The CUBS</blockquote>


I have to say that I know another thing that is good. If you love bargain shopping like me, everything is on SALE in your local shopping mall. My wife and I buy new clothes practically twice a year, and last weekend Ms. Panda and I went all out... I mean 70% OFF at Ann Taylor, 50% OFF at Express, 30% OFF Everything at Banana Republic...



If you love quality brands at discount prices, this is the time to go shopping!!!!



Does True Religion Jeans ever go on SALE????</blockquote>


The very last thing I will do is go on a spending binge. I am selling useless crap on craigs list.



Riding the bike to work and or too the store, market coffee shop. home cooking not resturant. we are on full spending shut down. save save save.



right now we are saving 50% of our net income.</blockquote>


I'm with you. My wife and I pretty much cut off many little luxuries that cost money. We figure by paying off debt we increase our income as well as increase from our employers. Its like a double edged sword working your way. After two years of paying down all our debt, we have more income that we know what to do with. Once a kid comes on board I'm sure that will change, but we feel good where we are at.



We take the train to work, grind our own coffee and cook almost everyday as well. Its actually fun to cook and freshly ground coffee tastes better too.</blockquote>








Funny you mention that about 2-3 weeks ago I said screw the coffe shop we drug down the old machine now we brew it at home. 5 days a week. then free starbucks frech roast at work. saves about 20-30 bucks a week. of course we do go get some thing on week-ends. also we buy wine beer at store and have it at home instead of wine shops/ bars etc..etc.



Last january I conviced my wife to fire the maid she was against it but I promised to help with cleaning. it's working fine.



My friend wants me to play World of Warcraft on the web. 15 dollars a month times infinity. I tryed it no thanks.



I have come to the conclution that banks are Evil. I will limit any dealings with them henceforth.



neither a borrower nor a lender be.



PS. thank you irvine renter your posts have helped me a lot since Aug 2006.



also John Cummatas (debt into Wealth) tapes.
 
I've also taken steps to cut down on spending:



No more eating out. I bring my lunch every day (saves about $100 a week)

Brew my own coffee in the morning ($2-$3 a day)

Carpool to work (about $300 a month in gas)

Stopped going to bars/movies

Check out the Woodbridge Dollar theater (now $2) once a month

Shut off all lights when not in use

Shower with my girlfriend (WIN WIN HERE!!) :)



When the going get tough, gotta do what you gotta do.
 
-I don't give a crap. I was in college once. payed my own way, mostly ate ramen soups eggs and tuna (cheap protein), did stuff on the cheaps. those were happy days.



- got rid of my Gas guzzling jeep wrangler in 2005 when gas was 2.80. I saw the writing on the wall.



Bought a focus wagon with the cash from the jeep. 20-28mpg.



in a few more years when the gas gets bad again. off to the vespa store 70mpg.. and fun.



-Americans are wastefull as a society.



here is my newest hobbie. we save all the cans and bottles and pick some out of the garbage (at my apt complex) free CRV returns.



good for 7-10 dollars a week. much more if we choose to do it more.



Thank god my wife is a good cook.



she did a semester in Florence, cooking classes. pasta yum yum.
 
DUDES!!, You are guys are INTENSE.



I am wondering if all the other people on the IHB are also drastically changing their spending habits too? For me, since my wife started work three months ago we started to use a cleaning maid service for the first time last Saturday. I have to say, they did an incredible job and it really lifted up a lot of stress of spending the weekend cleaning up the house and allowing us doing something more enjoyable with that time. I agree with all your comments about being more frugal, cutting the Starbucks latte factor, and not eating out that much, but i must say there is a lot of benefit of hiring a cleaning maid. I think it is worth every penny?



Any thoughts? Curious to what others think.
 
[quote author="PANDA" date=1222814503][quote author="muzie" date=1222812119][quote author="PANDA" date=1222771853]Awgee and Muzie,



Question for both of you. Is it safer to hold GTU-Gold Trust and CEF-Silver/Gold Trust as they are Canadian Trusts compared to SLV and GLD even though they are selling at a 10% premium? I am now convinced that our government has the power to do anything and everything and may force all Americans to convert their SLV and GLD into U.S. dollars when the Crap starts to really hit the fan here. However, I do not think that our government will be able to enforce this on the CEF and GTU? They would have to goto war with Canada to cross this line. Any thoughts?



Call me paranoid, but I am guessing that our government will soon enforce some crazy taxes and laws to Americans holding Foreign Assets, Euros and Gold. I'd say get the heck out of the U.S. dollar while it is still legal. When the Chinese and the Saudis realize that our dollar is becoming worthless, they will dump it like a fly. You really think the foreign countries are going to be onboard to loan U.S. more money to bail them out? Not a chance.</blockquote>


Apparently, CEF was actually audited and they can reliably show that they actually have the gold in the vaults to back up the paper. GLD wasn't audited. Dunno about GTU. For me, I don't know if it matters in the grand scheme of things. I have some gold for safety haven purposes, but I don't subscribe to the "the world is crashing down and you will actually need to buy your groceries with gold" viewpoint of some goldbugs. For less-than-armageddon scenarios I think just paper gold is fine.



For now I'm out of DGP and into GLD instead. Thought about CEF, but I'm keeping it simple so GLD is what I got.</blockquote>


Muzie,



SLV seems be a better value than GLD right now. What is your opinion about picking up more shares of SLV right now?</blockquote>






I really don't know. I do have some SLV. The silver market is tiny so silver is way more volatile. Witness today's 8% drop fo rno good reason.



I'm about 10-15% gold, 5% silver... some other stuff and 66% cash.



Please keep in mind although I've been doing a lot of research on these things, I don't have any impressive track record to back this up :-), so don't take my advice as anything else than another person trying to figure things out just as you are. I'm still 14% down YTD. Used to be flat on the year a few weeks ago, but the short ban flattened me like a pancake as I covered my shorts at that peak. Oh well. What can I say, the whole world was banning shorts so I got scared - massive government intervention is scary when you're on the other side :-P. I *guess* I'm still beating the S&P, but that's not much of a consolation.
 
[quote author="ventouxbob" date=1222828179]-I don't give a crap. I was in college once. payed my own way, mostly ate ramen soups eggs and tuna (cheap protein), did stuff on the cheaps. those were happy days.



- got rid of my Gas guzzling jeep wrangler in 2005 when gas was 2.80. I saw the writing on the wall.



Bought a focus wagon with the cash from the jeep. 20-28mpg.



in a few more years when the gas gets bad again. off to the vespa store 70mpg.. and fun.



-Americans are wastefull as a society.



here is my newest hobbie. we save all the cans and bottles and pick some out of the garbage (at my apt complex) free CRV returns.



good for 7-10 dollars a week. much more if we choose to do it more.



Thank god my wife is a good cook.



she did a semester in Florence, cooking classes. pasta yum yum.</blockquote>


You know, this seems funny to me as I'm almost thinking the opposite right now.



I've been saving up a lot for years and years, saving up, at least 50% of my income most of the time. Put it away in investments, did my research. Heck, at some point I thought I could retire at some crazy age like 35 with luck.



Well, my portfolio lost the equivalent of maybe haf a year's salary income this year. Now I'm looking at this and thinking being the ubersaver maybe wasn't so smart. If I had bought something, anything, I would have something to show for it. Now all I got for it is a lot of stress and while other work colleages are prowling around with brand new sports cars I've thrown the same amount into the garbage can.



If we go in hyperinflation, I will be doubly fucked as those who are debt slaves wil be immensely helped by any kind of wage inflation and house prices can stay up. Those with savings will be penalized.



If we go in deflation, then I guess cash is king, but ONLY if investing in deflation-proof assets. Your guess is as good as mine if we are headed for deflation.



I've come to realize that those with something certainly have a whole lot more to lose than those who have nothing. What did somebody who bought a house with no money down during the bubble lose? Not much really. A credit score hit and the inability to borrow for a few years. Frankly you could do worse. Those who bought houses with significant downpayments, on the other hand, have lost years and years of sacrificed consumption.



Nobody I know personally actually puts away most of their income in investments - and right now, at this moment, it certainly looks like just spending it all away might have been just as viable an alternative. Certainly seems to make life a whole lot simpler, and at least you got something to show for it.



Anyway - I'm curious what people think about this. Not exactly planning on going on a spending splurge right now, but I am putting things in perspective. You can only keep doing something for so long with no substantial rewards to show for it.
 
Muzie, unless you plan on day trading or having specific stretegic goals you need to invest in something solid and forget about it. You are down this year, but next year you could triple your money. Stock market has returned 11% over its lifetime 8% with inflation. So you can't take one year and hold it against the market.



People sold yesterday when DOW was down 777. DOW rebounded almost 500 pts today as well and could easily go up another 300 tomorrow puting you in the + category. People sold off their positions when markets reopened after Sept 11 attacks and clearly lost out. I know a friend that took out a second mortgage for 120K and invested it all after the sept 11 crash. Some people see it as a downfall some see it as an opportunity.



The only way I wouldnt invest in the US stock market is if you think America is no longer the superpower it used to be. If you think from here on out we are pretty much going to contract as an economy and as a global power. As long as you think we are going to continue to grow and strengthen as we have last 100 years, then you will be fine in the long run.



But I'd rather invest in stocks than things like homes anyday in my life. Over past 100 years stocks returned 8% inflation adjusted. You know how much homes have? ZERO...thats right...a big fat ZERO! (inflation adjusted)
 
[quote author="PANDA" date=1222829099]DUDES!!, You are guys are INTENSE.



I am wondering if all the other people on the IHB are also drastically changing their spending habits too? For me, since my wife started work three months ago we started to use a cleaning maid service for the first time last Saturday. I have to say, they did an incredible job and it really lifted up a lot of stress of spending the weekend cleaning up the house and allowing us doing something more enjoyable with that time. I agree with all your comments about being more frugal, cutting the Starbucks latte factor, and not eating out that much, but i must say there is a lot of benefit of hiring a cleaning maid. I think it is worth every penny?



Any thoughts? Curious to what others think.</blockquote>


As long as she is hot...they are worth every penny.
 
[quote author="Shooby" date=1222827758]Shower with my girlfriend (WIN WIN HERE!!) :)</blockquote>


You are taking a shower with your G-Friend and you and not even married?? WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU???? Graph, needs to come over there and give you a "B" Slap.
 
[quote author="blackvault" date=1222833103]Muzie, unless you plan on day trading or having specific stretegic goals you need to invest in something solid and forget about it. You are down this year, but next year you could triple your money. Stock market has returned 11% over its lifetime 8% with inflation. So you can't take one year and hold it against the market.



People sold yesterday when DOW was down 777. DOW rebounded almost 500 pts today as well and could easily go up another 300 tomorrow puting you in the + category. People sold off their positions when markets reopened after Sept 11 attacks and clearly lost out. I know a friend that took out a second mortgage for 120K and invested it all after the sept 11 crash. Some people see it as a downfall some see it as an opportunity.



The only way I wouldnt invest in the US stock market is if you think America is no longer the superpower it used to be. If you think from here on out we are pretty much going to contract as an economy and as a global power. As long as you think we are going to continue to grow and strengthen as we have last 100 years, then you will be fine in the long run.



Great Advice...



I also agree that being in 100% Cash right now is not a good place to be at the present. It is a false sense of Safety.



Muzie, you are in invested in the right things. Patience will reward you. I don't give a flying HOOT that SLV went down 8% and GLD down 5% today... Dude, Gold will be at $2000 an ounce and Silver at $50 much faster than you think.
 
"My friend wants me to play World of Warcraft on the web. 15 dollars a month times infinity. I tryed it no thanks."



Dude it sounds expensive, but the time you spend playing it is cheaper entertainment than most alternatives.



You may use electricity, but its alot cheaper than gas to go somwhere. If me and the gf play for a night instead of go out, its a $5 night at most (depends on how you play during the month). Impossible to beat. It even beats out driving to go rent a movie and coming back.
 
[quote author="blackvault" date=1222833103]Muzie, unless you plan on day trading or having specific stretegic goals you need to invest in something solid and forget about it. You are down this year, but next year you could triple your money. Stock market has returned 11% over its lifetime 8% with inflation. So you can't take one year and hold it against the market.



People sold yesterday when DOW was down 777. DOW rebounded almost 500 pts today as well and could easily go up another 300 tomorrow puting you in the + category. People sold off their positions when markets reopened after Sept 11 attacks and clearly lost out. I know a friend that took out a second mortgage for 120K and invested it all after the sept 11 crash. Some people see it as a downfall some see it as an opportunity.



The only way I wouldnt invest in the US stock market is if you think America is no longer the superpower it used to be. If you think from here on out we are pretty much going to contract as an economy and as a global power. As long as you think we are going to continue to grow and strengthen as we have last 100 years, then you will be fine in the long run.



But I'd rather invest in stocks than things like homes anyday in my life. Over past 100 years stocks returned 8% inflation adjusted. You know how much homes have? ZERO...thats right...a big fat ZERO! (inflation adjusted)</blockquote>


Yes I know stocks have the highest returns over time. And I know I could triple my money next year or next week. You need solid risk tolerance for that.



Does it happen in every bear market that people compare it to the Great Depression? Haven't lived through enough bear markets to see if this is the case, but what I'm seeing everywhere is people saying this is more than just the regular business cycle. It seems we truly fucked up this time, and the USA's standing in the economic world will be permanently damaged. Yes the sun will shine tomorrow and all, just as people in Japan still lived good lives during their lost decade. But anybody who was a regular investor during those times in Japan just wasted their time, unless they timed the entries & exits well, and all those people got was lots of stress.



This is why I ask myself - is this not different this time? I'm sure we'll have a real rally at some point soon, and a good 10-20% can be made off that. But if foreclosures and bank failures drag on for three, four or five years (which is precisely the government's plan), then I can't see any real recovery. The market will just go nowhere.



Anyway, the market in the last housing bubble actually did recover just fine in time, so I am perhaps over-analyzing it.
 
[quote author="upperlowerclass" date=1222834042]"My friend wants me to play World of Warcraft on the web. 15 dollars a month times infinity. I tryed it no thanks."



Dude it sounds expensive, but the time you spend playing it is cheaper entertainment than most alternatives.



You may use electricity, but its alot cheaper than gas to go somwhere. If me and the gf play for a night instead of go out, its a $5 night at most (depends on how you play during the month). Impossible to beat. It even beats out driving to go rent a movie and coming back.</blockquote>


I agree. A movie or meal will cost you the same for about 2 hours of entertainment. So 15$/month seems very inexpensive, if this is your cup of tea.
 
[quote author="upperlowerclass" date=1222834042]"My friend wants me to play World of Warcraft on the web. 15 dollars a month times infinity. I tryed it no thanks."



Dude it sounds expensive, but the time you spend playing it is cheaper entertainment than most alternatives.



You may use electricity, but its alot cheaper than gas to go somwhere. If me and the gf play for a night instead of go out, its a $5 night at most (depends on how you play during the month). Impossible to beat. It even beats out driving to go rent a movie and coming back.</blockquote>


-mabye that is a bad example. I dont like the idea of paying to play a video game. call me crazy. I like to buy the game. preferably at game stop for 75% off of retail. then i play for free all i want.-no additional monthly fee.



-I dont like net flix either (auto billing) some months i rent 5 movies some months I get my lazy ass to the public library and get all my movies for free. some months I watch no movies. I just dont like auto billing.



My point is Im cutting back all my overhead right now. Looking for places to save where we are willing to save.



the friend I used as an example has no TV he cancelled Cable. but he plays WOW. for 15 bucks a month.



its only 15 a month but those things start to add up.



-cable tv with Hd,hbo, showtime, with tivo- new blue ray dvd- blockbuster 24 bucks a month- SUV with a tv dvd screen for every spoiled bratty kid.



where does it end. big fat credit card bills. how much is enough?



Most people on this planet are happy to have clean water. and we fly it over from FiJI? WTF...waste waste waste.



-end of rant.
 
[quote author="PANDA" date=1222833235][quote author="Shooby" date=1222827758]Shower with my girlfriend (WIN WIN HERE!!) :)</blockquote>


You are taking a shower with your G-Friend and you and not even married?? WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU???? Graph, needs to come over there and give you a "B" Slap.</blockquote>


Are you kidding? More like high five. Shower with the girlfriend is FTW! In fact I was going to make a comment that it definitely is a WIN WIN!



I b-slap you about the dollar though, as I told you so.
 
[quote author="upperlowerclass" date=1222834042]"My friend wants me to play World of Warcraft on the web. 15 dollars a month times infinity. I tryed it no thanks."



Dude it sounds expensive, but the time you spend playing it is cheaper entertainment than most alternatives.



You may use electricity, but its alot cheaper than gas to go somwhere. If me and the gf play for a night instead of go out, its a $5 night at most (depends on how you play during the month). Impossible to beat. It even beats out driving to go rent a movie and coming back.</blockquote>


Thats funny you guys mention World of Warcraft. That is my rationale. Instead of spending $$$ on other entertainment I spend only $15 a month to play it and almost never get sick of it. I don't play it as much since I'm studying for my CFA, but hell I'm looking forward to next X-pac.



I would even cut out my cable to be honest because I don't watch as much TV since I started playing that forsaken game. But my wife still wants to watch her soaps.
 
It's the most popular massively mutiplayer online role playing game, which happens to be produced by a local business (Blizzard Entertainment). It tends to be very popular as whole families will often play together all the time as the game connects millions of players together worldwide.



Could go in more detail, but you would find more information on the official website or trying the game yourself.
 
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