Election Day

[Irvinecommuter]

These are the reasons:
President approval rating, Healthcare (Obama care), National Security, Secure Borders for US, Ebola, Secret Service debacle, VA Hospital debacle, etc..

I agree those are the factors...we all have difference of opinion on whether those thing are good or bad and who is to blame.

Personally, I see more of the same going forward.  The extreme right of GOP will not let the party negotiate with Obama on anything and Obama is not likely to give up what he did in the next year and a half. 

Sets it up for 2016...like I said in the other thread, here is the GOP's chance to show the country what plans they have for the country.  I would love to see their alternative proposals.

 

[Arman]

ISIS broke out, 'cause Obama had pulled out the troops without close monitoring in the region. It's his foreign policy mistake. One of the mistakes... Also, if you add up all the populist promises he made, but has never accomplished, it's quite clear why the citizens got a little bit upset with him. 
Just the campaign ads alone can't influence the votes much. Dems fail was predicted and expected a few months ago.

Do you want me to bring up George Bush ignoring warnings about 9/11?

 

[adventurous]

Republicans paid their price for Bush ignorance in 2008.

 

[adventurous]

Yes, Iraq refused.  Read the link. 

You don't get it, do you? Iraq couldn't refuse, if White House didn't ok that. Saddam was the last Iraqi official who tried to refuse.

As for Obamacare, every other industrialized nation has some sort of universal healthcare.  You may not appreciate it but it's much better for society as a whole.

Do you mind checking the tax brackets in those countries? Nothing comes for free, so if you are ok to shell out extra 10%-15% from your income for the government managed healthcare, you are welcome to do so.

 

[jmoney74]

Obama caused Isis?  Constipation too?  My gosh.

 

[adventurous]

If you mind reading a few posts above....
ISIS existed for long time, however they got the region under control after Obama pulled out the troops, but failed to monitor the situation. He actually admitted it, if you followed the news.

 

[jmoney74]

If you mind reading a few posts above....
ISIS existed for long time, however they got the region under control after Obama pulled out the troops, but failed to monitor the situation. He actually admitted it, if you followed the news.

Please... Tell me more.

 

[adventurous]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/28/politics/obama-isis-congress/

 

[irvinehomeowner]

As for Obamacare, every other industrialized nation has some sort of universal healthcare.  You may not appreciate it but it's much better for society as a whole.

I disagree.

And all those people who come from those universal healthcare countries to the US to get better care probably disagree too.

*Federal* government should stay out of as many programs as possible, leave that up to state and local, at the Fed level they are too far removed and too inefficient.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

As for Obamacare, every other industrialized nation has some sort of universal healthcare.  You may not appreciate it but it's much better for society as a whole.

I disagree.

And all those people who come from those universal healthcare countries to the US to get better care probably disagree too.

*Federal* government should stay out of as many programs as possible, leave that up to state and local, at the Fed level they are too far removed and too inefficient.

Such a red herring...no one is arguing about quality of health care, it's about access to healthcare.  Who cares how great health care is in this country if you can't afford it?  The US spend more money per person on health care as compared to other industrialized nations but have significant worse healthcare received.  The system is completely broken and getting worse by the day.  Medical expenses was the no. 1 reason why people declared bankruptcy by a wide margin.

Also, Obamacare is a state level program....each state has its own exchange unless it defers to the federal exchange.  Also, Medicare is a federal program...just about every participant of that program loves it.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

If you mind reading a few posts above....
ISIS existed for long time, however they got the region under control after Obama pulled out the troops, but failed to monitor the situation. He actually admitted it, if you followed the news.

Apparently the link I provide doesn't count as news.  Seriously...things are a lot more complicated, especially in the ME.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Yes, Iraq refused.  Read the link. 

You don't get it, do you? Iraq couldn't refuse, if White House didn't ok that. Saddam was the last Iraqi official who tried to refuse.

As for Obamacare, every other industrialized nation has some sort of universal healthcare.  You may not appreciate it but it's much better for society as a whole.

Do you mind checking the tax brackets in those countries? Nothing comes for free, so if you are ok to shell out extra 10%-15% from your income for the government managed healthcare, you are welcome to do so.

Of course they can refuse!  They're a sovereign nation...like all other sovereign nations, they can tell the US to get out (see Phillipines).  Are you advocating for a permanent occupation of Iraq by the US with or without their permission?  Seriously, we think we own the world but we really don't.

Of course it's not free, but we live in a society...rich people benefit from society a lot more than poor people.  One may not have school age children but one greatly benefits from having a well-educate population. 

 

[yaliu07]

If Iraq refused to get invaded by US in 2003, do you think US would not invade Iraq in 2003.  If UN disagreed to invade Iraq in 2003, do you think US would not invade Iraq.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

As for Obamacare, every other industrialized nation has some sort of universal healthcare.  You may not appreciate it but it's much better for society as a whole.

I disagree.

And all those people who come from those universal healthcare countries to the US to get better care probably disagree too.

*Federal* government should stay out of as many programs as possible, leave that up to state and local, at the Fed level they are too far removed and too inefficient.

Such a red herring...no one is arguing about quality of health care, it's about access to healthcare.  Who cares how great health care is in this country if you can't afford it?  The US spend more money per person on health care as compared to other industrialized nations but have significant worse healthcare received.  The system is completely broken and getting worse by the day.  Medical expenses was the no. 1 reason why people declared bankruptcy by a wide margin.

So you actually think our highly efficient Fed gov't is going to be able to fix it? They can't even get Social Security right.

And at whose expense? The taxpayers. I'm throwing my boba tea into the Woodbridge lake!

Also, Obamacare is a state level program....each state has its own exchange unless it defers to the federal exchange.

It's still Fed at the top level. And who is pulling your taxes for it?

Also, Medicare is a federal program...just about every participant of that program loves it.

Of course they do, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do for society. The purpose of government isn't to be a charity. Show me in the constitution where it says that.

As I stated before in this post:
http://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,2072.msg29270.html#msg29270

Do you prefer a welfare state system?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

If Iraq refused to get invaded by US in 2003, do you think US would not invade Iraq in 2003.  If UN disagreed to invade Iraq in 2003, do you think US would not invade Iraq.

The US just set up the government in Iraq...you want them to basically ignore that and keep troops there?  Seems pretty insane to me.

 

[yaliu07]

If Iraq refused to get invaded by US in 2003, do you think US would not invade Iraq in 2003.  If UN disagreed to invade Iraq in 2003, do you think US would not invade Iraq.

The US just set up the government in Iraq...you want them to basically ignore that and keep troops there?  Seems pretty insane to me.

the question is who gave the right to US in 2003 to set up an Iraq Govt?? 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

If Iraq refused to get invaded by US in 2003, do you think US would not invade Iraq in 2003.  If UN disagreed to invade Iraq in 2003, do you think US would not invade Iraq.

The US just set up the government in Iraq...you want them to basically ignore that and keep troops there?  Seems pretty insane to me.

the question is who gave the right to US in 2003 to set up an Iraq Govt??

US went in to take out Saddam..I would argue without much justification but based upon the old UN resolution regarding chemical/biological weapon ban.  Remember Colin Powell?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

As for Obamacare, every other industrialized nation has some sort of universal healthcare.  You may not appreciate it but it's much better for society as a whole.

I disagree.

And all those people who come from those universal healthcare countries to the US to get better care probably disagree too.

*Federal* government should stay out of as many programs as possible, leave that up to state and local, at the Fed level they are too far removed and too inefficient.

Such a red herring...no one is arguing about quality of health care, it's about access to healthcare.  Who cares how great health care is in this country if you can't afford it?  The US spend more money per person on health care as compared to other industrialized nations but have significant worse healthcare received.  The system is completely broken and getting worse by the day.  Medical expenses was the no. 1 reason why people declared bankruptcy by a wide margin.

So you actually think our highly efficient Fed gov't is going to be able to fix it? They can't even get Social Security right.

And at whose expense? The taxpayers. I'm throwing my boba tea into the Woodbridge lake!

Also, Obamacare is a state level program....each state has its own exchange unless it defers to the federal exchange.

It's still Fed at the top level. And who is pulling your taxes for it?

Also, Medicare is a federal program...just about every participant of that program loves it.

Of course they do, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do for society. The purpose of government isn't to be a charity. Show me in the constitution where it says that.

As I stated before in this post:
http://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,2072.msg29270.html#msg29270

Do you prefer a welfare state system?

More red herrings..the fact that the US catches up to other industrialized nations in providing universal healthcare does not make it a welfare state.  Have universal health helps increase the general health of the country while lowering costs.  All the dire predictions that anti-ACA people laid out have pretty much not happened.

Again..ACA is not a federally system...it basically creates insurance exchanges in which private insurance companies compete for business.  ACA does add certain things and requirements to insurance but overall it's basically a privately-ran system.  It's nowhere near what UK, Japan, or Germany has (one can only dream).  As for the subsidies,

As for taxes...again, we live in a society.  We all benefit when people have access to health care rather than wait until the last minute to go to the ER.

They can't get SS right?  SS has been around for over 70 years and still financially viable for another 30 years.  SS was never intended to be the retirement payment system for everyone...it was created in an era in which companies offered pensions and people saved.  Now, companies all but eliminated pensions and people no longer saves.  How is that the system's fault?  Also, it was created during a time in which fewer % of people reached the retirement age of 65.

As for the Constitution argument...the Constitution specifically states in the Preamble that the government should promote "general welfare" of the people...also tax and spending clause:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.

Also...there are plenty of things that are not in the Constitution that we seen as fundamental right...the right to access to education for example.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

"general welfare" is subjective.

I don't think it means hand outs.

Access to education is an example of "general welfare", food stamps and healthcare shouldn't be a Federal responsibility.

All the dire predictions that anti-ACA people laid out have pretty much not happened.

We're barely a year in... show me your citations.

From the doctors I've talked to, they don't like ACA as it limits access to people who didn't have this issue prior to ACA.

Have your premiums gone up? Our has, as has everyone else's I know. So I get to pay more for more limited service. Thanks Obamacare.

Whether or not the Fed should be involved in "general welfare" can be argued, but their inefficiency cannot. Fractions of my tax dollar is not the best use... regardless of the exchanges being run privately, the funding is not and unless the Fed can guarantee 100% of my taxes is going to be used, I would prefer a privatized system.

But hey, now I get the best of both works, I'm paying for my privatized system AND ACA... so awesome.

 

[yaliu07]

If Iraq refused to get invaded by US in 2003, do you think US would not invade Iraq in 2003.  If UN disagreed to invade Iraq in 2003, do you think US would not invade Iraq.

The US just set up the government in Iraq...you want them to basically ignore that and keep troops there?  Seems pretty insane to me.

the question is who gave the right to US in 2003 to set up an Iraq Govt??

US went in to take out Saddam..I would argue without much justification but based upon the old UN resolution regarding chemical/biological weapon ban.  Remember Colin Powell?

Two questions:
1. Did UN authorize an attack on Iraq in 2003?
2. Did US find chemical/biological weapon?