Couple found dead in Irvine apartment parking structure

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if u take away all the craziness, racism, police brutality, and what nots in dorners manifesto, it still boils down to the age old question of "who watches the watchmen?"... and i can already see this playing out well in favor of the LAPD, so in essense dorners reforms mentioned in his manifesto are all for naught... in this particular case, if the public was to choose between a crazed cop killer vs an overpowerful/bearing LAPD, seems like they are choosing the latter...

in fact, this convo ur having with the other members of this forum is a good example too, seems like the other folks are all supporting the latter as well...

if u take away his guns, put him into a suit and have him preach 24-7 about his experiences with racism and corruption in the LAPD he'd probably garner a larger following and actually move policy...  but if he just wanted to kill his foes, id write a book first and then go about shooting ppl, least the book will be a best seller for the time being... or if he wants to be burned into immortality, might as well fly to the white house lawn and set himself on fire there Tibetan style... but whatever... black guy shown "going down" on national tv probably just set the black community back 5 years... and to think he majored in political science too... =_=;;



nosuchreality said:
First, let's make it clear, I have NO disdain for the officers conducting the manhunt. 

I have questions on the apparent differences in the police handling of this case directed at them compared to the one directed at the general public.  I don't remember that last major manhunt.  I also don't remember that last time we fired up agencies across not only multiple counties, the Feds and multiple states.  If this is standard procedure, then great.  But I'm kind thinking back to just couple weeks ago with the hostage situation in the bunker in Alabama.

I also have questions on the media presentation of the information.

Liar Loan said:
irvinehomeowner said:
nosuchreality said:
3. Why did Dorner warrant a few hundred or thousand plus manhunt?  Every other violent crime victim should be outraged, IMHO, at the double standard.
4. Why a million dollar reward in the first days?  That seems completely abnormal too.
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From what I remember, if there is a solid lead on a suspect and he/she in turn commits more violence, the manhunt becomes massive... regardless of who the victims are. Although, I would tend to agree that because there was an LAPD connection it got more press.

Have there been violent crimes in the past where the suspect was identified, he/she committed more violence and there was no manhunt?
Click to expand...

I'm with IHO on this.  How SHOULD the police have responded in this situation?  They had a solid lead with a burning truck and a suspect that fled into difficult terrain.  The public would have been outraged if the police had not thrown every available resource at this situation. 

The police conducting the manhunt had nothing to do with the Torrance shootings, so you need to separate your disdain for the trigger-happy cops in Torrance from the cops risking their lives trying to capture this lunatic.
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During the coverage yesterday, there were those who suggested he could be inside, prepared with a gas mask, laughing off their attempts to introduce tear gas and that he could use the basement to his advantage to rise up out of the ashes as Homer joked (which is why I thought you were totally serious.) Maybe he could have if the fire hadn't grown.
 
world chaos said:
haha black ppl all look alike jokes so fast?
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Well. This.

dorner2.jpg
 
excuse me, that IS chris dorner wearing a 'i am not chris dorner' shirt... gosh... do not be fooled by his camouflage attempt!
 
Sadly what can we expect when the day after the State of the Union, the primary discussion isn't any issue raised, but rather a grab for a bottle of water, a VP's bloodshot eyes and purple tie, a chronically bored Boner (sic) and an over assertive fist bump.

Frankly, I don't want much, just an decent media research and reporting on the prevalence of mass firepower used the LAPD.  i.e. The two ladies truck had how many shots fired at it?

Then start winding the clock back and look at the escalation of police use of deadly force.  The kid saying he had a gun in the yellow car a while back, same type of scene, multiple cops unloading their magazines into the vehicle.

What's the vegas over under on the LAPD closing the reopened file concluding everything was handled appropriately.  A month?
 
but the citizenry is bored and there is no russell crowe yellin "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED~??"


nosuchreality said:
Sadly what can we expect when the day after the State of the Union, the primary discussion isn't any issue raised, but rather a grab for a bottle of water, a VP's bloodshot eyes and purple tie, a chronically bored Boner (sic) and an over assertive fist bump.

Frankly, I don't want much, just an decent media research and reporting on the prevalence of mass firepower used the LAPD.  i.e. The two ladies truck had how many shots fired at it?

Then start winding the clock back and look at the escalation of police use of deadly force.  The kid saying he had a gun in the yellow car a while back, same type of scene, multiple cops unloading their magazines into the vehicle.

What's the vegas over under on the LAPD closing the reopened file concluding everything was handled appropriately.  A month?
Click to expand...
 
so i was working from home and while flipping the channels i came across the live funeral coverage of one of the cops that got killed. seemed like an expensive event.  just curious what you guys think about taxpayers for such an event?  im guessing that had to have cost at 100K, probably several.  not trying to be insensitive, but people die every day and no one other than cops seem to get this treatment. i understand they protect and serve and thats great, but they get paid for it. the wages and benefits are what they are because they do put their life on the line but does that mean every time a cop is killed in the line of duty, several 100K should be spent on their funeral?  How about when the cops open fire on someone with no reason whatsoever and they die? does the city/county spend several 100K to memorialize them? 
 
world chaos said:
if u take away all the craziness, racism, police brutality, and what nots in dorners manifesto, it still boils down to the age old question of "who watches the watchmen?"... and i can already see this playing out well in favor of the LAPD, so in essense dorners reforms mentioned in his manifesto are all for naught... in this particular case, if the public was to choose between a crazed cop killer vs an overpowerful/bearing LAPD, seems like they are choosing the latter...

in fact, this convo ur having with the other members of this forum is a good example too, seems like the other folks are all supporting the latter as well...

if u take away his guns, put him into a suit and have him preach 24-7 about his experiences with racism and corruption in the LAPD he'd probably garner a larger following and actually move policy...  but if he just wanted to kill his foes, id write a book first and then go about shooting ppl, least the book will be a best seller for the time being... or if he wants to be burned into immortality, might as well fly to the white house lawn and set himself on fire there Tibetan style... but whatever... black guy shown "going down" on national tv probably just set the black community back 5 years... and to think he majored in political science too... =_=;;



nosuchreality said:
First, let's make it clear, I have NO disdain for the officers conducting the manhunt. 

I have questions on the apparent differences in the police handling of this case directed at them compared to the one directed at the general public.  I don't remember that last major manhunt.  I also don't remember that last time we fired up agencies across not only multiple counties, the Feds and multiple states.  If this is standard procedure, then great.  But I'm kind thinking back to just couple weeks ago with the hostage situation in the bunker in Alabama.

I also have questions on the media presentation of the information.

Liar Loan said:
irvinehomeowner said:
nosuchreality said:
3. Why did Dorner warrant a few hundred or thousand plus manhunt?  Every other violent crime victim should be outraged, IMHO, at the double standard.
4. Why a million dollar reward in the first days?  That seems completely abnormal too.
Click to expand...
From what I remember, if there is a solid lead on a suspect and he/she in turn commits more violence, the manhunt becomes massive... regardless of who the victims are. Although, I would tend to agree that because there was an LAPD connection it got more press.

Have there been violent crimes in the past where the suspect was identified, he/she committed more violence and there was no manhunt?
Click to expand...

I'm with IHO on this.  How SHOULD the police have responded in this situation?  They had a solid lead with a burning truck and a suspect that fled into difficult terrain.  The public would have been outraged if the police had not thrown every available resource at this situation. 

The police conducting the manhunt had nothing to do with the Torrance shootings, so you need to separate your disdain for the trigger-happy cops in Torrance from the cops risking their lives trying to capture this lunatic.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

You guys seem very focused on the political aspects of this case.  There has never been a case quite like this so you aren't going to find anything to compare it to.  Not only was he a crazed cop killer, but he was a terrorist with a published hit list, with two successful kills in Irvine, and another near kill in Riverside.  That's the reason for the unprecedented manhunt.  It has nothing to do with him being black, or an ex-LAPD officer, or that he was targeting officers' families.  If an islamic terrorist published a list of 40 Americans that would imminently die over the next week you would have the same kind of urgency from law enforcement.

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not a defender of overbearing police tactics.  I've been the recipient of some over-the-top actions by police in my hometown of Huntington Beach, and it's hard not to be resentful when it happens.  However, I don't see why it's even a choice between the crazed cop killer terrorist and the police department as a whole. 

Dorner was not a hero and he did nothing to shed light on injustice in the police department.  He was an incompetent police officer that shot HIMSELF in training academy, was given EVERY CHANCE to succeed as an officer, and yet failed to meet basic LAPD standards.  The outcome of his termination hearing was appealled to superior court where he lost, and then to appellate court where he lost again.  Yeah, I'm putting my money on the reopened investigation showing that Dorner was still in the wrong.
 
the reason i look at these series of events at a political angle is because dorners manifesto is filled with rage on social issues, policy, and reform...

so my automatic question is, did he get what he wanted? or will he get what he wanted?

my answer is no for both, and so i ultimately think he is dumb... smart ppl get what they want, dumb ppl dont...
 
irvinehomeowner said:
IrvineRepublic said:
LAPD or whatever PD/SD - Judge, Jury and Executioner.
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That's what I said... Judge Dredd.
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Now that Dorner is officially dead, the question becomes will LAPD/media sweep the shootings of innocent bystanders under the rug. It is understandable the stress officers were under in the Torrance shooting but it is not acceptable to shoot two innocent unarmed women delivering papers.
 
iacrenter said:
irvinehomeowner said:
IrvineRepublic said:
LAPD or whatever PD/SD - Judge, Jury and Executioner.
Click to expand...
That's what I said... Judge Dredd.
Click to expand...

Now that Dorner is officially dead, the question becomes will LAPD/media sweep the shootings of innocent bystanders under the rug. It is understandable the stress officers were under in the Torrance shooting but it is not acceptable to shoot two innocent unarmed women delivering papers.
Click to expand...

What shootings?  Yep, gone,we're to busy profiling the heroic cop couple on the list to pay attention to nearly killing three innocent people in our death squad.  They're heroes cuz they were on the list!
 
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