Countdown for in-person schooling

[Irvinecommuter]

No offense taken. 

But any practical idea is better than remote learning. This is all a temporary measure. And there are many better temporary measures.

I think you can have remote/distant learning for upper elementary kids pretty easily.  It really depends on the district and the teachers.  JH and HS kids should also have almost no problems with distant learning.

TK/Kinder kids (and maybe 1st/2nd) are different in that most of their learning is through social interactions as opposed to any academics but the concern is that those kids will get the disease and spread it to others.  Any one with small children knows that it is next to impossible for them not to get sick from others and/or pass it along to their family members.

But again...as you stated...these are temporary measures.  IMO, we are better off making sure the risk is at a minimum before we start sending kids back into the classroom.  Kids can recover from one year of remote learning.

 

[Bullsback]

There are many colleges closings and outbreaks throughout the US. (with the safety precautions) Also, students are getting covid in elementary schools.

I think it is a shame for people (elected officials, school boards, admins) giving the false narrative that it is safe. Sometimes you have to let them learn from their mistakes to learn.

For the elementary school students - it is likely extremely safe. For the teachers, obviously a bit more risk. But you also can't ignore the impact LT at home school with more limited peer interactions, etc, has on children.  But everyone obviously has different degrees of risk tolerance, etc. 

I still don't get why California hasn't went to my idea which kind of aligns with Qwerty's, except for I'd be doing the teaching outdoors (outdoor with spacing and masks - very minimal risk for teachers & students). Call it a win win and for the 1st time ever, California students will get equivalent of snowdays when it is either way too hot or raining (which we all know is pretty rare anyway) and on those days they'll just pivot to the existing virtual platform.

It doesn't work that way...teachers have to plan and do things.  You can't just pivot from one thing to another. 

No offense but these are ideas that people who have never tried to teach small children come up with.

No - This is exactly what teachers have to be prepared for.  If in two weeks people have to go on-site, than they will be on-site. We are already in a spot where depending on the model you chose and the district, you are going to have in-person and virtual people with the exact same teacher so if for 2 days everyone is virtual becasue there is a heat wave and than you get back to 3 straight weeks where the in-person is in-person for those who opted in, than you really aren't in any different of a situation. 

Teachers are being asked (Depending on the district) to teach both virtual and in-person.  The reality is - no one knows what will happen so they need to be prepared to pivot. This is no longer last year - where everything came as a total shock. You had a summer to get ready.  No excuses.   

 

[Irvinecommuter]

There are many colleges closings and outbreaks throughout the US. (with the safety precautions) Also, students are getting covid in elementary schools.

I think it is a shame for people (elected officials, school boards, admins) giving the false narrative that it is safe. Sometimes you have to let them learn from their mistakes to learn.

For the elementary school students - it is likely extremely safe. For the teachers, obviously a bit more risk. But you also can't ignore the impact LT at home school with more limited peer interactions, etc, has on children.  But everyone obviously has different degrees of risk tolerance, etc. 

I still don't get why California hasn't went to my idea which kind of aligns with Qwerty's, except for I'd be doing the teaching outdoors (outdoor with spacing and masks - very minimal risk for teachers & students). Call it a win win and for the 1st time ever, California students will get equivalent of snowdays when it is either way too hot or raining (which we all know is pretty rare anyway) and on those days they'll just pivot to the existing virtual platform.

It doesn't work that way...teachers have to plan and do things.  You can't just pivot from one thing to another. 

No offense but these are ideas that people who have never tried to teach small children come up with.

No - This is exactly what teachers have to be prepared for.  If in two weeks people have to go on-site, than they will be on-site. We are already in a spot where depending on the model you chose and the district, you are going to have in-person and virtual people with the exact same teacher so if for 2 days everyone is virtual becasue there is a heat wave and than you get back to 3 straight weeks where the in-person is in-person for those who opted in, than you really aren't in any different of a situation. 

Teachers are being asked (Depending on the district) to teach both virtual and in-person.  The reality is - no one knows what will happen so they need to be prepared to pivot. This is no longer last year - where everything came as a total shock. You had a summer to get ready.  No excuses. 

No...that's not true at all.  Hybrid was one option offered...as was traditional and online.  All three are fundamentally different and thus teachers were assigned to different classes with different needs. 

Most business are still struggling with figuring out how to deal with Covid...not sure why teachers are viewed to know how to do it. 

Go teach 35 children in a classroom setting and then come back to tell me no excuses. 

 

[Bullsback]

There are many colleges closings and outbreaks throughout the US. (with the safety precautions) Also, students are getting covid in elementary schools.

I think it is a shame for people (elected officials, school boards, admins) giving the false narrative that it is safe. Sometimes you have to let them learn from their mistakes to learn.

For the elementary school students - it is likely extremely safe. For the teachers, obviously a bit more risk. But you also can't ignore the impact LT at home school with more limited peer interactions, etc, has on children.  But everyone obviously has different degrees of risk tolerance, etc. 

I still don't get why California hasn't went to my idea which kind of aligns with Qwerty's, except for I'd be doing the teaching outdoors (outdoor with spacing and masks - very minimal risk for teachers & students). Call it a win win and for the 1st time ever, California students will get equivalent of snowdays when it is either way too hot or raining (which we all know is pretty rare anyway) and on those days they'll just pivot to the existing virtual platform.

It doesn't work that way...teachers have to plan and do things.  You can't just pivot from one thing to another. 

No offense but these are ideas that people who have never tried to teach small children come up with.

No - This is exactly what teachers have to be prepared for.  If in two weeks people have to go on-site, than they will be on-site. We are already in a spot where depending on the model you chose and the district, you are going to have in-person and virtual people with the exact same teacher so if for 2 days everyone is virtual becasue there is a heat wave and than you get back to 3 straight weeks where the in-person is in-person for those who opted in, than you really aren't in any different of a situation. 

Teachers are being asked (Depending on the district) to teach both virtual and in-person.  The reality is - no one knows what will happen so they need to be prepared to pivot. This is no longer last year - where everything came as a total shock. You had a summer to get ready.  No excuses. 

No...that's not true at all.  Hybrid was one option offered...as was traditional and online.  All three are fundamentally different and thus teachers were assigned to different classes with different needs. 

Most business are still struggling with figuring out how to deal with Covid...not sure why teachers are viewed to know how to do it. 

Go teach 35 children in a classroom setting and then come back to tell me no excuses.

That is just Irvine - I'm speaking more broadly - other districts in the state had different views. Some of which combined online and in-person. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

That is just Irvine - I'm speaking more broadly - other districts in the state had different views. Some of which combined online and in-person.

Irvine is a district with a ton of resources and a largely affluent population with good internet and technology.  It is already set up for virtual/hybrid learning.  Most districts are not so lucky and teachers/resources already stretched thin. 

They prepared for online learning and had to distribute technology to students to use...you want them to jump back and forth? 

What about the parents?  How do they plan their day...how do they work?  Again, Irvine has an affluent population with parents that have flexible schedule (or stay at home caretakers)...what happens to those district where parents are mostly working class and do not have the flexibility or support Irvine parents have.

Even Irvine made the parents pick one or another...the online portion was mandated by the state but once things get back to "normal"...the students have to pick one or the other. 

Again..no offense but you don't know how good you and your kids have it.

 

[Bullsback]

That is just Irvine - I'm speaking more broadly - other districts in the state had different views. Some of which combined online and in-person.

Irvine is a district with a ton of resources and a largely affluent population with good internet and technology.  It is already set up for virtual/hybrid learning.  Most districts are not so lucky and teachers/resources already stretched thin. 

They prepared for online learning and had to distribute technology to students to use...you want them to jump back and forth? 

What about the parents?  How do they plan their day...how do they work?  Again, Irvine has an affluent population with parents that have flexible schedule (or stay at home caretakers)...what happens to those district where parents are mostly working class and do not have the flexibility or support Irvine parents have.

Even Irvine made the parents pick one or another...the online portion was mandated by the state but once things get back to "normal"...the students have to pick one or the other. 

Again..no offense but you don't know how good you and your kids have it.

I'm not arguing with you on all of that - I'm just saying this is a question broader than just Irvine.  You are right, Irvine has more resources and offered more scenarios than others. Many other schools has two - one which was full time online (meaning you stay there) and the other which was a hybrid (but similar whether you were virtual and/or in-person - meaning the teacher is teaching people both in class and virtually).  There are also other scenarios that fit somewhere in the spectrum. 

To me those who are doing in-person aren't even getting in-person today - so all you are doing is coming up with an alternative that at least gives a parent, who wants it, to get real in-person learning in a manner that would likely have far less risk to COVID shutdowns (which would be one wrench) and replaces them with some slight weather challenges/concerns.

By the way - this topic I first discussed it a couple months ago was less focused, but there are actually private schools across the country who are using a ton of outdoor teaching as one of the main ways they are combating COVID (at least now - not sure how that will hold up when those areas get hit with harsh winters). 

 

[bones]

A few days in and the first bullshit assignment for 2nd grade: ancestry interview.
No way this gets assigned week 1 for in person so why assign it for DL.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

That is just Irvine - I'm speaking more broadly - other districts in the state had different views. Some of which combined online and in-person.

Irvine is a district with a ton of resources and a largely affluent population with good internet and technology.  It is already set up for virtual/hybrid learning.  Most districts are not so lucky and teachers/resources already stretched thin. 

They prepared for online learning and had to distribute technology to students to use...you want them to jump back and forth? 

What about the parents?  How do they plan their day...how do they work?  Again, Irvine has an affluent population with parents that have flexible schedule (or stay at home caretakers)...what happens to those district where parents are mostly working class and do not have the flexibility or support Irvine parents have.

Even Irvine made the parents pick one or another...the online portion was mandated by the state but once things get back to "normal"...the students have to pick one or the other. 

Again..no offense but you don't know how good you and your kids have it.

I'm not arguing with you on all of that - I'm just saying this is a question broader than just Irvine.  You are right, Irvine has more resources and offered more scenarios than others. Many other schools has two - one which was full time online (meaning you stay there) and the other which was a hybrid (but similar whether you were virtual and/or in-person - meaning the teacher is teaching people both in class and virtually).  There are also other scenarios that fit somewhere in the spectrum. 

To me those who are doing in-person aren't even getting in-person today - so all you are doing is coming up with an alternative that at least gives a parent, who wants it, to get real in-person learning in a manner that would likely have far less risk to COVID shutdowns (which would be one wrench) and replaces them with some slight weather challenges/concerns.

By the way - this topic I first discussed it a couple months ago was less focused, but there are actually private schools across the country who are using a ton of outdoor teaching as one of the main ways they are combating COVID (at least now - not sure how that will hold up when those areas get hit with harsh winters).

I realize that you are talking about bigger picture but the model needs to fit for the median district...not top ones like Irvine.  Private schools have much better resources and campus to have outdoor learning. 

Most parents I know who signed up for traditional was because they could not stay home or accommodate a hybrid system.  It is a matter of need as oppose to want. 

Even in the traditional system...there will be minimal interactions between students...my guess is that there will be waivers that need to be signed. 

This is not even thinking about risk to the teachers and staff....who may opt'd out or retire early.  Good luck getting them replaced.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

A few days in and the first bullshit assignment for 2nd grade: ancestry interview.
No way this gets assigned week 1 for in person so why assign it for DL.

Because online learning will put an emphasis on projects and online collaborative work.  Recent shifts in education has been to do more work at school instead of homework...so they are doing more project-based assignments and making sure that kids has things to do through out the day. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I assure you that there are hard working people who are trying find solutions to this problem but there are real world issues...which require lots and lots of money.

Staffing those outdoor learning spaces could be another challenge. Smaller classes would likely mean that districts would need more teaching staff?a tall order given that school systems are already strapped for cash and are girding for the possibility of budget cuts and layoffs.

https://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/District_Dossier/2020/06/outdoor_classrooms_coronavirus.html

Like always, we ask teachers and schools to do more but do not give them any more money to do it.

 

[Bullsback]

I assure you that there are hard working people who are trying find solutions to this problem but there are real world issues...which require lots and lots of money.

Staffing those outdoor learning spaces could be another challenge. Smaller classes would likely mean that districts would need more teaching staff?a tall order given that school systems are already strapped for cash and are girding for the possibility of budget cuts and layoffs.

https://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/District_Dossier/2020/06/outdoor_classrooms_coronavirus.html

Like always, we ask teachers and schools to do more but do not give them any more money to do it.

I agree that there are valid reasons and systematically it is hard for districts and states to shift. Money is a definite hinderance as is the fact that all the current funds are earmarked into a giant institution, some districts which run more efficient and effective than others and with different districts that have completely different challenges. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I assure you that there are hard working people who are trying find solutions to this problem but there are real world issues...which require lots and lots of money.

Staffing those outdoor learning spaces could be another challenge. Smaller classes would likely mean that districts would need more teaching staff?a tall order given that school systems are already strapped for cash and are girding for the possibility of budget cuts and layoffs.

https://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/District_Dossier/2020/06/outdoor_classrooms_coronavirus.html

Like always, we ask teachers and schools to do more but do not give them any more money to do it.

I agree that there are valid reasons and systematically it is hard for districts and states to shift. Money is a definite hinderance as is the fact that all the current funds are earmarked into a giant institution, some districts which run more efficient and effective than others and with different districts that have completely different challenges.

I just got this email from IUSD

As part of this plan, IUSD has procured the following personal protective equipment and supplies for students and staff for the start of in-person instruction:

Nearly a half million face coverings, includes cloth face masks, disposable face masks and face shields to ensure TK-12 grade students and staff, who need them, will have access to face coverings any time they are on IUSD campuses.

1,400 air purifying units for classrooms.

More than 25,000 bottles of hand sanitizer, 21,500 boxes of hand wipes, 200 cases of liquid foam hand sanitizer.  Hand sanitizing stations are provided throughout school and District sites, particularly in areas without sinks. Nearly 5,000 boxes of gloves.

12,000 three-panel desk safety shields.  To the greatest extent possible, classroom furniture will be arranged to provide maximum spacing. When six-feet distancing cannot be maintained, appropriate safety measures will be implemented, including desk safety shields.

Directional and educational signage related to physical distancing, hand washing, recognizing the symptoms of COVID-19, and more will be placed throughout school and District facilities.

 

[Bullsback]

I assure you that there are hard working people who are trying find solutions to this problem but there are real world issues...which require lots and lots of money.

Staffing those outdoor learning spaces could be another challenge. Smaller classes would likely mean that districts would need more teaching staff?a tall order given that school systems are already strapped for cash and are girding for the possibility of budget cuts and layoffs.

https://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/District_Dossier/2020/06/outdoor_classrooms_coronavirus.html

Like always, we ask teachers and schools to do more but do not give them any more money to do it.

I agree that there are valid reasons and systematically it is hard for districts and states to shift. Money is a definite hinderance as is the fact that all the current funds are earmarked into a giant institution, some districts which run more efficient and effective than others and with different districts that have completely different challenges.

I just got this email from IUSD

As part of this plan, IUSD has procured the following personal protective equipment and supplies for students and staff for the start of in-person instruction:

Nearly a half million face coverings, includes cloth face masks, disposable face masks and face shields to ensure TK-12 grade students and staff, who need them, will have access to face coverings any time they are on IUSD campuses.

1,400 air purifying units for classrooms.

More than 25,000 bottles of hand sanitizer, 21,500 boxes of hand wipes, 200 cases of liquid foam hand sanitizer.  Hand sanitizing stations are provided throughout school and District sites, particularly in areas without sinks. Nearly 5,000 boxes of gloves.

12,000 three-panel desk safety shields.  To the greatest extent possible, classroom furniture will be arranged to provide maximum spacing. When six-feet distancing cannot be maintained, appropriate safety measures will be implemented, including desk safety shields.

Directional and educational signage related to physical distancing, hand washing, recognizing the symptoms of COVID-19, and more will be placed throughout school and District facilities.

Now this is exactly why you said we are spoiled - luxury of being in the IUSD cause we all know not every district can pivot this way. 

 

[eyephone]

Sounds good and sounds expensive.
But having a classroom in the outdoors might be safer.
Logistically and operationally I do not know. But there are classrooms in Europe like that.

 

[bones]

A few days in and the first bullshit assignment for 2nd grade: ancestry interview.
No way this gets assigned week 1 for in person so why assign it for DL.

Because online learning will put an emphasis on projects and online collaborative work.  Recent shifts in education has been to do more work at school instead of homework...so they are doing more project-based assignments and making sure that kids has things to do through out the day. 

I get why they're doing it - it's easy teaching.  Assign it, have the kids work on it with parents' help, have them each present on zoom - eats up all the zoom time.  Popcorn optional.

 

[qwerty]

We should go the way of Kenya and Bolivia and just cancel the school year

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@bullsback:

My post just concentrated on what you said about no long term effects on children who get Covid. Not the other stuff.

Unsure if you want to risk that with your kids... there were tons of posts here of how people don't want to live near the freeway, near the pesticide orchards or even on former base land so that is a concern.

 

[eyephone]

I think we have to factor all circumstances with kids going to school: kids risk, teachers/staff/admin risk, the older relatives/family friends of the kids.

Because kids do not take care of themselves. (Make their own food, no supervision needed, transportation to school.) * I know there are kids live really close so transportation is not an issue.

Also, there is a child obesity problem or issue in America. Not a big deal, but can be due to covid.

 

[nosuchreality]

So how many of us are primed for Shingles?


Today's case count is 353 out of 3305 test. Aka 10.7%, luckily its weekend low test counts, hopefully.  What happens if we reach the 14 days, schools reopen and we then cross back over one of the watch list criteria, such as the 7 day testing positive being greater than 8%, is it immediate plonk of in person classes?

 

[Bullsback]

@bullsback:

My post just concentrated on what you said about no long term effects on children who get Covid. Not the other stuff.

Unsure if you want to risk that with your kids... there were tons of posts here of how people don't want to live near the freeway, near the pesticide orchards or even on former base land so that is a concern.

Fair point - I might have mistyped, but I think I stated long-term you don't know anything (since the earliest data we have on this thing goes back to December).  But I was more speaking to the fact that elementary age kids are going to be infected (clearly they can get infected) but they are also going to get better (and at a very very HIGH probability). In fact - one could argue that if there was on scenario where all those people inaccurately stating COVID is the equivalent of the "flu"...this would be the exact situation where there statement would actually be pretty accurate as COVID hospitatization and death rates among pediatric patients (ie., kids) were very similar with that of the flu. 

This is not to minimalize any one-death but the data fundamentally supports this notion (right now we are talking about 48 deaths in the 5-17 demographic (and when you zero in on elementary age children this only skews the risk lower as the emerging data indicates older age children seem to have similar risks as young adults - still low, but higher than flu, etc - including risks around heart issues, etc).

And the rates I am comparing are based upon confirm cases - wide belief in the scientific community is that young children are even more probable to being asymptomatic than adults (and we already know we could be talking about general adults as being as high as 50/50) which likely means the data is still skewed to reporting too high of children risk vs. too low. 

Again - I will remind those that read all the words - asymptomatic does not mean you can't spread. In fact there is data that these kids have even more levels of the virus than adults and so still a lot of research to emerge on what that means, including what it means in terms of spreading.  Intuitively you would think it would make kids spread the virus more - but we haven't necessarily seen kids be "super spreaders" like they are with other virus. Maybe it is as simple as kids are smaller and shorter so with this being a more airborne virus, maybe their particles are just quicker to get to the ground and less likely to actually be inhaled and infect people - hell if I know.   

This doesn't mean there is No Risk - because there is risk and still a lot of unknown, but given how responsive and less severe children cases are, including the instances where children require hospitalization (they more often get better faster and very rarely require ventilators, etc), the educated hypothesis in the scientific community would lead us to believe LT risks would also be low (but we don't know what we don't know).  We also know - no matter what, there are plenty of risks out there and for all I know youth sports are 3 times riskier than COVID.  Heck, for all we know COVID lies dormant and it will wipe out the population in 3 years time without a cure. 

And don't forget - we also have to consider local demographics.  Irvine has been trending very strong on COVID cases (getting back to initial quarantine levels and I think most recently there was 1 case in a day - not sure if that was a testing issue or not, but pretty sustained averages of ~10/day (not none but pretty darn good). When you factor the low case count in Irvine with what we know about elementary school impacts this would seem to align with the general notion, that for the child, it would be extremely safe for the kids to be back in school.