coronavirus

[Innosint]

I'm sure if this theory is popular in NA. but supposedly there are three possible strains of COVID-19 atm.

There are type A, which has been around the world by last winter, mostly found around West coast of USA and Wuhan. The symptom of this one was similar to common flu, more severe, but not significantly worse so not much attention of it was given.

Type A mutated to Type B in Wuhan and also later infected New York... where it becomes more deadly and infectious.

Type B eventually mutated to Type C. in the middle of infecting Europe and alike. It's currently most commonly found in later part of infection in Europe and Asia.

How ever, given you can be reinfected with the same type of virus..... being infected with and have antibody against Type A doesn't mean we are immune from Type B and C, and they have crawl their way back to CA due to traveler from the East coast.

 

[momopi]

You're right about guns if we ever have another pandemic that's not low fatality rate and killed mostly seniors. It'd be safer for people to buy guns and ammos. We do have more than 300 million firearms in the country, enough to arm every man woman and child.
Hopefully after this is all over, people start asking themselves if this really makes them safer.

Look for statistics on used firearm transactions and police turn in's in a year or two.  Many of the millions of firearms sold recently went to first time buyers, including those who were previously pro gun control.  I know because I had several call me to ask what to buy as they waited in line for 4+ hours at the store.  "Can you loan me one?" "NO".

Should they have another change of heart in a year or two, there should be a noticeable increase in the resale market or police turn-in events.

 

[eyephone]

You're right about guns if we ever have another pandemic that's not low fatality rate and killed mostly seniors. It'd be safer for people to buy guns and ammos. We do have more than 300 million firearms in the country, enough to arm every man woman and child.
Hopefully after this is all over, people start asking themselves if this really makes them safer.

Look for statistics on used firearm transactions and police turn in's in a year or two.  Many of the millions of firearms sold recently went to first time buyers, including those who were previously pro gun control.  I know because I had several call me to ask what to buy as they waited in line for 4+ hours at the store.  "Can you loan me one?" "NO".

Should they have another change of heart in a year or two, there should be a noticeable increase in the resale market or police turn-in events.

You should be concerned Russia is trying to influence US policy regarding the covid virus response. They are like creating chaos with sponsoring Facebook ads regarding anti social distancing. Even through 100% of countries that practice social distancing shows that it works.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

This pandemic exposed us.

US may still be the best place to live during normal good times, but this is not the place to be in a pandemic. I have friends and family in east Asia and their lives are not disrupted like this. We are the richest and most advanced country in the world, but we don't have the ability to execute the best options because our system and healthcare are like byzantine labyrinths. And many of us refuse to be smart and sacrifice individual freedom for the greater good in a time of crisis. So we are constantly stuck with picking the less sh*tty option.

Gah... here you go again making country comparisons. You can't... it's not the same.

I'd rather be living here in the US dealing with these disruptions than in parts of Asia where choices are limited.

Just like other countries, there are parts of the US where the disruptions were minimal, that speaks to density, topography, job types, lifestyle, demographics etc... you just can't make these sweeping arguments because the US is more like a country made of countries.

I may be the only one here but I think we did the best we could... you were fearmongering us with how we would not have enough hospitals, beds, and ventilators in California and so far we are okay because there were other factors that were not taken into account like surge capacity, the Mercy ship, conversion of convention centers, hotels etc. Flattening the curve worked... and I would rather deal with these "disruptions" than go through what NYC is going through.

But we do have to get back to opening the economy, if that means masks until Halloween, 50% capacity at restaurants, fanless sports or whatever... we should do it.

Instead of constantly comparing what Asia does and what we don't, let's just focus on solutions that can be applied here because we are NOT Asia (although Irvine comes very close to it ).

 

[Kenkoko]

This pandemic exposed us.

US may still be the best place to live during normal good times, but this is not the place to be in a pandemic. I have friends and family in east Asia and their lives are not disrupted like this. We are the richest and most advanced country in the world, but we don't have the ability to execute the best options because our system and healthcare are like byzantine labyrinths. And many of us refuse to be smart and sacrifice individual freedom for the greater good in a time of crisis. So we are constantly stuck with picking the less sh*tty option.

Gah... here you go again making country comparisons. You can't... it's not the same.

I'd rather be living here in the US dealing with these disruptions than in parts of Asia where choices are limited.

Just like other countries, there are parts of the US where the disruptions were minimal, that speaks to density, topography, job types, lifestyle, demographics etc... you just can't make these sweeping arguments because the US is more like a country made of countries.

I may be the only one here but I think we did the best we could... you were fearmongering us with how we would not have enough hospitals, beds, and ventilators in California and so far we are okay because there were other factors that were not taken into account like surge capacity, the Mercy ship, conversion of convention centers, hotels etc. Flattening the curve worked... and I would rather deal with these "disruptions" than go through what NYC is going through.

But we do have to get back to opening the economy, if that means masks until Halloween, 50% capacity at restaurants, fanless sports or whatever... we should do it.

Instead of constantly comparing what Asia does and what we don't, let's just focus on solutions that can be applied here because we are NOT Asia (although Irvine comes very close to it ).

It's funny to me that listing to experts' projection is now labeled as fearmongering? Surely you can do better than that.

But I expect nothing less from our perpetual bull IHO.

And we do need people to stay star spangled banner and not flee to Asia to keep our home prices high. So I do thank you 

 

[irvinehomeowner]

It's funny to me that listing to experts' projection is now labeled as fearmongering? Surely you can do better than that.

Listing is one thing, but multiple posts without actually taking math and other opinons/factors into account is another. You only stood on one side without giving credence to anything else. Check out the Coronavirus Math thread where I addressed the Austin, TX "expert" doctor who made a Facebook post about running out of ventilators without tempering her math.

But I expect nothing less from our perpetual bull IHO.

Why? Because I like to look at all sides of an opinion. Your opinions are more bullish than mine because you give no quarter. How many times have you talked about how it's better in Asia but then you say you don't really think that but all your posts indicate otherwise.

And we do need people to stay star spangled banner and not flee to Asia to keep our home prices high. So I do thank you 

This is not about Americanism. This is about reality of where we all live right now. I still don't understand how you can't see there is a huge difference in life between here and elsewhere. I understand you are trying to point out our shortcomings, but why not suggest reasonable solutions we can enact here instead of complaining about how our freedom will kill us. Again, we are not Asia, Italy or even NYC or LA. Each place/people require different answers.

I can't go tell Kansas "hey... just port the ship Mercy and you guys will be fine", you have to take into consideration as many factors as possible.

 

[Kenkoko]

IHO,

You clearly don't understand my issue with you. Calling me Nostradamus or fear-monger aren't helpful or welcomed.

Attacking dissenting voices, demonizing critics, and trying to enforce groupthink is counter productive.

Most people clearly want what's best - the mitigation of the virus at the lowest economic and social cost.

Rather than unity, I think respect can go a long way. Which is all I ask from you.

 

[eyephone]

IHO,

You clearly don't understand my issue with you. Calling me Nostradamus or fear-monger aren't helpful or welcomed.

Attacking dissenting voices, demonizing critics, and trying to enforce groupthink is counter productive.

Most people clearly want what's best - the mitigation of the virus at the lowest economic and social cost.

Rather than unity, I think respect can go a long way. Which is all I ask from you.

It is part of the a Trump play book. Cause chaos in America to deflect from the covid virus. After 9/11 and the financial crisis GWB, Raegan handling the Cold War crisis, JFK handling the Cuba crisis did not go crazy like Trump. Trump is attacking fellow Americans.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

IHO,

You clearly don't understand my issue with you. Calling me Nostradamus or fear-monger aren't helpful or welcomed.

Attacking dissenting voices, demonizing critics, and trying to enforce groupthink is counter productive.

Most people clearly want what's best - the mitigation of the virus at the lowest economic and social cost.

Rather than unity, I think respect can go a long way. Which is all I ask from you.

Maybe if you understand that I'm discussing your opinion and not you. I have no idea who you are or what you do (other than work in some medical related industry).

You bring up the "Nostradamus" thing again which makes me think that is some sensitive area for you. The point is on TI (and most of the Internet), when people make predictions, they need to back it up not just with what other "experts" think, but also to counter what other "experts" say and take into account other opinions.

I still don't understand why people use the word "attack". This is a forum... a discussion board. So when someone continually posts something that someone else does not agree with, they counter and discuss. You should not take counter posts personally. No one is "attacking" you... I do not call you old or fat or stupid (ahem), I am merely re-posting my opinion to your re-posts of yours.

I also don't understand why you think I have no respect for you. That is quite the contrary or else I would not respond to you (if you notice there are some posters here people tend to not respond to). You seem to only remember where I disagree as there have been numerous posts where I have thanked you and backed you. But I get it, it's easier to remember the negative discord than the positive discourse.

What I do wonder is why you are not seeing my point that what works in one country cannot always work here. I have posted that I understand your concept that the "freedom" we have is at times a limiter on what we are able to do, but the other side of it is there are so many more things that we can do.

Lets get back to the topic, what do you think that is being done in Taiwan (or other parts of Asia) that can feasibly be done in *all* of the US?

 

[eyephone]

IHO,

You clearly don't understand my issue with you. Calling me Nostradamus or fear-monger aren't helpful or welcomed.

Attacking dissenting voices, demonizing critics, and trying to enforce groupthink is counter productive.

Most people clearly want what's best - the mitigation of the virus at the lowest economic and social cost.

Rather than unity, I think respect can go a long way. Which is all I ask from you.

Maybe if you understand that I'm discussing your opinion and not you. I have no idea who you are or what you do (other than work in some medical related industry).

You bring up the "Nostradamus" thing again which makes me think that is some sensitive area for you. The point is on TI (and most of the Internet), when people make predictions, they need to back it up not just with what other "experts" think, but also to counter what other "experts" say and take into account other opinions.

I still don't understand why people use the word "attack". This is a forum... a discussion board. So when someone continually posts something that someone else does not agree with, they counter and discuss. You should not take counter posts personally. No one is "attacking" you... I do not call you old or fat or stupid (ahem), I am merely re-posting my opinion to your re-posts of yours.

I also don't understand why you think I have no respect for you. That is quite the contrary or else I would not respond to you (if you notice there are some posters here people tend to not respond to). You seem to only remember where I disagree as there have been numerous posts where I have thanked you and backed you. But I get it, it's easier to remember the negative discord than the positive discourse.

What I do wonder is why you are not seeing my point that what works in one country cannot always work here. I have posted that I understand your concept that the "freedom" we have is at times a limiter on what we are able to do, but the other side of it is there are so many more things that we can do.

Lets get back to the topic, what do you think that is being done in Taiwan (or other parts of Asia) that can feasibly be done in *all* of the US?

Sorry if a person is repeating themselves and going in circles without no logic or evidence or source. I will call them whatever I want. Also, it is a double standard. You praise Trump handling, but you or other people do not say anything about how he is tearing America apart during the crisis.

#doublestandard

 

[Kenkoko]

IHO,

I will take the personal part of it to private messages as you requested.

The last thing I will say on this is I don't quite get this desire to brush off Trump's mishandling of our initial response for the sake of "moving on"

I fully recognize that in a rapidly evolving crisis such as this, decision-makers need to be given the political space to make mid-course corrections, which should be encouraged when the interpretation of facts or even just the facts themselves change.

But Decision / Indecision have consequences. We need accountability.

Silencing dissent in a time of crisis can be costly as tribes and communities breed conformity of thought. Tunnel vision can induce overconfidence & confirmation bias, leading one to ignore potential risks while looking at "agreeable facts." We are not immune to this. Experts are not immune to this.

We've seen nations do that already, when they erroneously relied on faulty WHO directives for decision-making.

In fact, it is particularly during an unprecedented one which our routines and institutions have not been calibrated for, that we should value open-mindedness about heterodox views.

All this tension between the folks who want to open the economy and those who want to continue the lockdown is not undesirable. It's not unwanted chaos.

On the contrary, it's actually part and parcel of living and participating in a healthy society.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

The last thing I will say on this is I don't quite get this desire to brush off Trump's mishandling of our initial response for the sake of "moving on"

I fully recognize that in a rapidly evolving crisis such as this, decision-makers need to be given the political space to make mid-course corrections, which should be encouraged when the interpretation of facts or even just the facts themselves change.

But Decision / Indecision have consequences. We need accountability.

Silencing dissent in a time of crisis can be costly as tribes and communities breed conformity of thought. Tunnel vision can induce overconfidence & confirmation bias, leading one to ignore potential risks while looking at "agreeable facts." We are not immune to this. Experts are not immune to this.

We've seen nations do that already, when they erroneously relied on faulty WHO directives for decision-making.

In fact, it is particularly during an unprecedented one which our routines and institutions have not been calibrated for, that we should value open-mindedness about heterodox views.

All this tension between the folks who want to open the economy and those who want to continue the lockdown is not undesirable. It's not unwanted chaos.

On the contrary, it's actually part and parcel of living and participating in a healthy society.

I agree with you here. (bolded so you remember )

I'm actually just trying to figure out what we can do to re-open businesses and keep the curve down because without any proper vaccine/treatment minimizing the R0 is our only answer.

I've already said that I think Georgia could be jumping the gun and I am in disagreement with the protests in HB and San Clemente (their opinions, not their right to protest). I am also not a fan of Trump, just a fan of fact-checking.

 

[Kenkoko]

I am glad we do agree on some things. I am also a fan of facts, data, science, and logic.

You probably confuse me with Katie Porter's sister who was doing the faulty math on Ventilators. I never cited her.

You seem to have a problem with me using aspects of Asian and European countries that are superior to ours. I said it before and I will say it again. We should learn from other countries' success and failure. It's just me pointing out " hey other places are doing it, it works, maybe we should too"

Things like getting away from for profit healthcare or Gun control. Medical bills are the number one cause of U.S. bankruptcies. Over 90% of Americans support universal background check on guns. That's practically the will of the American people. Yet we don't have it because we've been hijacked by our political system and the NRA.

 

[momopi]

The relaxation of quarantine will likely result in second wave of COVID-19 infections and send another shock to the stock market.  There is nothing you can do to stop this.  Best to be prepared and protect yourself.  And have some cash ready to invest when market dips again.

Stock up on long shelf life foods and plant a garden.  The assumption is that you cannot realistically grow enough food to sustain yourself.  Store dry grains in air tight containers that will last a while, and plant fresh fruits and vegetables to supplement your diet.

Even if you only have a smallish yard, you can optimize space usage by container and vertical gardening.  Use elevated planters -- you can build your own, plenty of YT videos on this subject.  If the location doesn't get a lot of sun there are still many shade tolerant vegetables.

Many varieties of dwarf citrus trees avail and will grow in containers here.  A fresh lime or lemon is preferable to bottle of pills.  Put the pot on planter caddies (with wheels) and roll them around where the sun is.  Tomatoes, strawberries, cucumbers (!), etc. will grow from hanging baskets.

 

[eyephone]

Trump is not yelling during the press conference today. Just give it a day or two. Lol

I am telling you. They probably read this message board. Because I am a genius. Lol

 

[eyephone]

USA Today article: McDonald's to give free 'Thank You Meals' for first responders, health care workers starting Wednesday

McDonald's is introducing free "Thank You Meals" for first responders and health care workers serving on the front lines of the coronavirus pandemic, the fast-food giant announced Tuesday.

Starting Wednesday and through May 5, health care workers, police officers, firefighters and paramedics can get a free meal at participating restaurants nationwide available at the drive thru or for carry out.

The meals are available for breakfast, lunch and dinner and will be served in a Happy Meal box, "in the hopes of bringing a smile along with delicious food," the company said in a news release.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...rst-responders-healthcare-workers/2995207001/

 

[irvinehomeowner]

The last thing I will say on this is I don't quite get this desire to brush off Trump's mishandling of our initial response for the sake of "moving on"

I forgot to reply to this.

Conversely, I think people want to "move on" from the Trump blame too. No hot tub time machine... so let's just move forward and stop blaming the prez, the govs, the mayors, The Who (not the band ), China etc.

You seem to have a problem with me using aspects of Asian and European countries that are superior to ours. I said it before and I will say it again. We should learn from other countries' success and failure. It's just me pointing out " hey other places are doing it, it works, maybe we should too"

I don't think you answered me... what exactly are the other countries doing that will work for us? I don't think free Happy Meals are the answer.

 

[Kenkoko]

The last thing I will say on this is I don't quite get this desire to brush off Trump's mishandling of our initial response for the sake of "moving on"

I forgot to reply to this.

Conversely, I think people want to "move on" from the Trump blame too. No hot tub time machine... so let's just move forward and stop blaming the prez, the govs, the mayors, The Who (not the band ), China etc.

You seem to have a problem with me using aspects of Asian and European countries that are superior to ours. I said it before and I will say it again. We should learn from other countries' success and failure. It's just me pointing out " hey other places are doing it, it works, maybe we should too"

I don't think you answered me... what exactly are the other countries doing that will work for us? I don't think free Happy Meals are the answer.

I've posted numerous time just about healthcare. There are many things we can do both long term and short term.

Long term, we can start to move away from for profit healthcare.

Most cities in the U.S. long ago closed or privatized their public hospitals. Luckily not NYC. We still have a public system of 11 acute care hospitals.  Public hospitals dis-proportionally serve low-income patients. They turn no one away, regardless of ability to pay. This pandemic would have been unthinkably worse without them. We should reverse this trend of privatization.

Immediate term we can establish centralized control to produce and distribute medical supplies and PPEs.

Because we didn't do this, we had states competing and outbidding each other for ventilators/PPE.

We also didn't distribute supplies and PPEs to the most needed hospitals because we lacked central control.
Some hospitals still received new shipping of supplies when they have surplus, while other hospitals in need didn't and had to have them rationed.

This is the United States of America in the year 2020. And we are making our nurses lineup outside an office for the one mask that they rationed? when the mask was designed to be swapped out and be disposable in between each patient encounter.

We are seeing Round 2 of the Covid-19 Hunger Games play out right now in testing reagents. The scramble for the reagents needed for mass testing has begun.  Ingredients for testing are not the kind of thing you make with a home chemistry set. These are complicated reagents that must extract RNA from a sample.

Unfortunately there are not enough producers of this today in the U.S. That's why we need the feds to use the Defense Production Act.

 

[morekaos]

Things that make you go hmmm...

Autopsy reveals first COVID-19 death in the US was THREE weeks earlier than thought and in California, NOT Washington state - radically altering the timeline of the virus in the States

Santa Clara Medical Examiner-Coroner says it has identified three individuals who died with COVID-19 including one victim who passed away on February 6
Washington's first deaths were reported on February 29 after two people - one who was a resident at a nursing home - died in the same Seattle hospital
It also means the first fatality in Santa Clara, which had been recorded as Azar Ahrabi, 68, on March 9, was in fact more than a month earlier
The number of statewide cases surged following an outbreak at the Life Care Center nursing home facility in the Seattle suburb of Kirkland
'It was probably around unrecognized for quite some time', one expert said 
[url]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8243881/First-coroanvirus-death-U-S-THREE-weeks-earlier-thought-not-Washington-state.html[/url]

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I saw that on TV today and they said the people who died were not in contact with anyone who traveled from China.

So how did they get it? And... this seems to indicate that a milder strain of the virus may have been in circulation earlier this year.

Or may be one of those "Was it death due to the flu or COVID?" because we didn't have COVID testing back then.