Common Core Standards

[Irvinecommuter]

Most Asian countries emphasis repetition and memorization.

repetition and memorization are indeed very important in elementary math. without that, any thinking skill or problem solving skill is just some imaginary high riser building on the sand.

i noticed whenever i went buy some grocery or fast food, let's say it cost $16.39. and i gave $20 bill at first. and then i found out that i have some changes to use. so i give the cashier another $1.39 expecting him just to give me $5 to make things easier. unfortunately most of the time, the cashier got so confused and can't figure out how much they should give back to me and i have tell them the answer.

this is basic elementary math and you will never have this problem in any asian country. here in our country without the machine/computer, people's brain just go dead because they just  can't do math. and with this CC, now i am expecting to see every cashier use an ipad to sketch some graphs or draw some circles in order to figure out how much they owe me.

Of course there is some use for basic math but that's not what the goal of education should be.  Seriously, we have calculators on phones now...basic math is overrated.

Also...the cashier that you were dealing with "learned" math the "traditional" way so it obviously didn't work out very well.

Repetition and memorization are both "dumb" ways of learning math.  Just like memorizing words is a "dumb" way to learn English...it is the most straight forward way but it's dumb. 

 

[sentosa]

if you can figure out a problem by only 1 step. do you need to show 3 more steps just to earn enough points for the test ? if you can figure out a problem without a diagram, do you need to show it ? diagram assist you in thinking. but it's not a necessity. if you can't figure out, draw a diagram. if you can figure out without it because you have more advanced thinking skill, why should you be penalized.

why IUSD won't release the test and their grading to the students & their parents? after all this is a new test to everyone and they need to give everyone a chance to at least learn about the real test & how they are grading it.

The only reason I can think of is that  they don't even have confidence in it themselves.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

if you can figure out a problem by only 1 step. do you need to show 3 more steps just to earn enough points for the test ? if you can figure out a problem without a diagram, do you need to show it ? diagram assist you in thinking. but it's not a necessity. if you can't figure out, draw a diagram. if you can figure out without it because you have more advanced thinking skill, why should you be penalized.

why IUSD won't release the test and their grading to the students & their parents? after all this is a new test to everyone and they need to give everyone a chance to at least learn about the real test & how they are grading it.

The only reason I can think of is that  they don't even have confidence in it themselves.

Because there is a benefit to drawing the diagram or being exposed to the idea of a diagram.  It opens up new ways to solve a problem....sometimes different methods yields to different though processes.  Seriously...stop worrying so much about "scores" and the "answer" and worry about the process and whether your kid is actually learning the concepts.

Again, why do college professors make you "show your work"....you can get the right "answers" but still fail.

 

[sentosa]

Repetition and memorization are both "dumb" ways of learning math.  Just like memorizing words is a "dumb" way to learn English...it is the most straight forward way but it's dumb.

wow! i never knew that.
unfortunately math is not english.
let's see who is dumber.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Repetition and memorization are both "dumb" ways of learning math.  Just like memorizing words is a "dumb" way to learn English...it is the most straight forward way but it's dumb.

wow! i never knew that.
unfortunately math is not english.
let see who is dumber.

You never knew what?  That memorization is a dumb way to do math...it absolutely is in a world of computers and machines.  It's like using a shovel to dig holes when there are machine to the do the job faster and more efficiently.  People in Asia in the 1980s and 1990s loved mental math contests and the abacus...in the end, it was just a lot of wasted time and energy.

Memorization of math answer is like trying to learn English by just memorizing vocabulary words.  You know what's a lot more important...reading comprehension and context.  You can memorize all SAT vocabulary words you like but it means nothing with context and placement.  In fact, you just end up knowing the words but never understand the language.

You're right that math is not English...the process and concepts are a lot more important in math than English. 

 

[abcd1234]

Irvinecommuter- I don't disagree with you the merits of new methods of critical thinking. 

you said:  I am sure that there were sample problems that your child got to practice.

Actually, there weren't any sample problems on the test on the IUSD website.  Before the exam, there were sample questions from the previous years.  I did print those out prior to the exam and had my kid work on those problems.  But of course, that was not aligned to common core.  Those tests were from 2011-2012

I am C&P the email I got from IUSD when I registered my child for the July exam. 

Hello,

You have recently registered a student for math testing this summer.  We have updated our website to include some additional sample problems you may find useful.

It would have been useful if they had those new common core-aligned sample problems before the test was given in May.  Now on the website, they mention that those practice tests that I and probably other parents printed out to help our kids prepare for the May exam were previous year questions and not aligned to common core.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Irvinecommuter- I don't disagree with you the merits of new methods of critical thinking. 

you said:  I am sure that there were sample problems that your child got to practice.

Actually, there weren't any sample problems on the test on the IUSD website.  Before the exam, there were sample questions from the previous years.  I did print those out prior to the exam and had my kid work on those problems.  But of course, that was not aligned to common core.  Those tests were from 2011-2012

I am C&P the email I got from IUSD when I registered my child for the July exam. 

Hello,

You have recently registered a student for math testing this summer.  We have updated our website to include some additional sample problems you may find useful.

It would have been useful if they had those new common core-aligned sample problems before the test was given in May.  Now on the website, they mention that those practice tests that I and probably other parents printed out to help our kids prepare for the May exam were previous year questions and not aligned to common core.

You should talk to your child's teacher and find out what they were doing to prepare for the test. 

I'm not defending the test per se because I haven't seen it.  There are definitely implementation issues with common core...it's new for everyone, teachers, districts, and students.  I am sorry that you and your children are the ones who are at the beachhead but it has to start some time. 

What I wish parents would do is work with the district and teachers on how to improve the tests and teaching rather than start pointing and blaming.  Recognize the underlying goals and push in the same direction.

 

[sentosa]

You never knew what?  That memorization is a dumb way to do math...it absolutely is in a world of computers and machines.  It's like using a shovel to dig holes when there are machine to the do the job faster and more efficiently.  People in Asia in the 1980s and 1990s loved mental math contests and the abacus...in the end, it was just a lot of wasted time and energy.

You're right that math is not English...the process and concepts are a lot more important in math than English.

ok. you won.

why even bother to learn math. because you can google the answer for every single problem you will encounter.

i remembered when my son doing his science project writing about stars they can see from the sky it was very cloudy for the whole week. instead of being truthful and tell the teacher he saw nothing in the sky, he just use google earth and walla, he's done. genius.

 

[sentosa]

What I wish parents would do is work with the district and teachers on how to improve the tests and teaching rather than start pointing and blaming.  Recognize the underlying goals and push in the same direction.

after communicating with the district/school/teachers, seems that there is nothing parents can do and don't waste your time expecting the school/iusd will even listen to you.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

You never knew what?  That memorization is a dumb way to do math...it absolutely is in a world of computers and machines.  It's like using a shovel to dig holes when there are machine to the do the job faster and more efficiently.  People in Asia in the 1980s and 1990s loved mental math contests and the abacus...in the end, it was just a lot of wasted time and energy.

You're right that math is not English...the process and concepts are a lot more important in math than English.

ok. you won.

why even bother to learn math. because you can google the answer for every single problem you will encounter.

i remembered when my son doing his science project writing about stars they can see from the sky it was very cloudy for the whole week. instead of being truthful and tell the teacher he saw nothing in the sky, he just use google earth and walla, he's done. genius.

Ironic thing is that your concept of math is so basic that you think it's all about answers and that you can learn it by "googling it"...and you are promoting the traditional model of learning math in a manner that encourages "googling" the answer.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

What I wish parents would do is work with the district and teachers on how to improve the tests and teaching rather than start pointing and blaming.  Recognize the underlying goals and push in the same direction.

after communicating with the district/school/teachers, seems that there is nothing parents can do and don't waste your time expecting the school/iusd will even listen to you.

Do about what?  Getting your kid's score changed?  Probably not.  Calling them and working with the principals and teachers to see what to do next...I would think that would be possible.

 

[sentosa]

a

 

[sentosa]

Do about what? 

they need to:

1. be reasonable and use common sense. e.g. they failed all the 6th grade kids for the 7th grade common core math test when the score is 83% or lower in any of the 5 areas. does that mean all the 7th grade common core student who took the same test and achieve 83% or lower in any of the 5 areas will have to stay in 7th grade math  and not being promoted ?

2. show the real test (not the so called sample) and grading to all the parents. so that parents will know how this new test is being graded.

3. tell the parents if there is a limit on the number of students that can pass this test due to whatever reason.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Do about what? 

they need to:

1. be reasonable and use common sense. e.g. they failed all the kids for the 7th grade common core math test when the score is 83% or lower in any of the 5 areas. does that mean all the 7th grade common core student who took the same test and achieve 83% or lower in any of the 5 areas to stay in 7th grade and not being promoted ?

2. show the real test (not the so called sample) and grading to all the parents. so that parents will know how this new test is being graded.

3. tell the parents if there is a limit on the number of students that can pass this test due to whatever reason.

I don't really understand your point on no. 1 but I like the idea of not passing kids through just because they're supposed to be a particular grade.

I would agree with no. 2.

No. 3 seems like pure speculation.

 

[sentosa]

i am glad we have something to agree upon.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

i am glad we have something to agree upon.

I get that it's about your kid so it's a tough subject.  I just think that the idea of common core is good...implementation is not so great so far. 

If the district is keeping the test a secret, I would definitely object to it. 

 

[irvinehomeowner]

this is basic elementary math and you will never have this problem in any asian country. here in our country without the machine/computer, people's brain just go dead because they just  can't do math. and with this CC, now i am expecting to see every cashier use an ipad to sketch some graphs or draw some circles in order to figure out how much they owe me.

This made me laugh.

Hyperbolic, but funny.

Obviously, basic math most people should "know"... it's the advanced math where they want you to show your work and how you go about solving it.

In the future, you won't be using cash and change anyways, so your cashier won't even need to know basic math, just how to scan your BitCoin QR code tattooed on your forehead.

 

[sentosa]

LOL

 

[furioussugar]

Sentosa-  did you go to the Middle School Placement parent meetings held in various locations in late April and early May?  Mark Sontag gave a presentation on the Common Core changes specific to math -http://www.iusd.org/education_services/documents/MathPlacement2014-2015.pdf

At that time- he also gave a website where you could view sample SBAC questions  (which is still up for view for those who are interested): http://sbac.portal.airast.org/ca/

Further-  IUSD will release the actual test questions in January 2015 (from IUSD's website)

"10. Will I be able to see my child?s actual test after it is scored?
? No. You will receive a report showing the scores for each of the domains as well as an
overall score on the test. We will release the actual questions from this year?s versions
of the MSMAT and AAT in January, 2015."

Remember-  Algebra 1 is a high school level course.  The REAL worry for parents who are there right now is not Algebra in 7th grade,  but the Honors Geometry that comes after it in 8th grade.  Approx. 25% of students were not passing that class and they were taken OFF the honors track for high school (unable to repeat Honors Geometry) and this was before common core came on.  This is what happens now for 8th grade (per IUSD website)

"To take Honors Geometry in 8th grade, students must have taken one full year of Algebra 1 in class and received a grade of B or better on all report cards.

Students will receive a formal grade report approximately every six weeks. To be eligible for Honors Algebra 2 in 9th Grade, students must earn a grade of B or better each trimester in Honors Geometry and be recommended by their teacher. Students who do not receive a grade of B or better each trimester may be recommended for either College Prep Algebra 2, a repeat of Honors Geometry, or College Prep Geometry in 9th Grade depending on their grades in Honors Geometry."

 

[sentosa]

furioussugar, nobody knows what this year's actual placement looks like. what  what they give out is just information. i don't think the placement test has a lot to do with those samples. also they are demanding "show yr steps" . but they never show any sample of the steps to be shown and how the grading is done based on those steps. the fact that most kids fail makes us wonder if the problem lies with the test and grading itself.

geometry is after algebra1 and then it's algebra2. so when they move algebra1 to 9th grade, you have to take geometry in 10th and algebra 2 in 11th and precalculus in 12th. so you won't be able to do AP calculus or AP statistics.