Columbus Grove: why live there

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I've driven in there. It's not so bad during the day, but at night, it's really really bad. I feel like somebody could be dashing out right in front of my car any given minute. Too many blind spots at the walkways.



Will they change it? Redesign? If they really knew this affected business, wouldnt they try?



[quote author="bkshopr" date=1221631409]

The parking lot circulation is a nightmare. It is by far the most twisted with turns and short aisles. They made big mistakes by not flanking the entrance point to the Theatre Promenade with anchor restaurants that has the outside bars and patio dinings. Isolating the restaurant to pads helps the restaurant monopolize the sphere of influence in parking. A better example is the Garden Walk in Anaheim with similar scale the pedestrian promenade portal are two flanking anchor restaurants with outside patio dining and bars. Seeing people at the outside patios of PF Chang and McCormick is the biggest draw for an entry. Guys were salivating over the women siting by the outside bars. People like to watch people and people love to be seen are the 2 cardinal rules in retail or hotel design.</blockquote>
 
[quote author="rickhunter" date=1221632333]I've driven in there. It's not so bad during the day, but at night, it's really really bad. I feel like somebody could be dashing out right in front of my car any given minute. Too many blind spots at the walkways.



Will they change it? Redesign? If they really knew this affected business, wouldnt they try?



[quote author="bkshopr" date=1221631409]

The parking lot circulation is a nightmare. It is by far the most twisted with turns and short aisles. They made big mistakes by not flanking the entrance point to the Theatre Promenade with anchor restaurants that has the outside bars and patio dinings. Isolating the restaurant to pads helps the restaurant monopolize the sphere of influence in parking. A better example is the Garden Walk in Anaheim with similar scale the pedestrian promenade portal are two flanking anchor restaurants with outside patio dining and bars. Seeing people at the outside patios of PF Chang and McCormick is the biggest draw for an entry. Guys were salivating over the women siting by the outside bars. People like to watch people and people love to be seen are the 2 cardinal rules in retail or hotel design.</blockquote></blockquote>


District will not change it unless there is incentive. The reason of the awkward turns is to maximize parking count. When redesign diminishes parking count that would be a very bad idea. Rise of traffic collisions at the same spot would warrant the city to take action for the retrofit and not hold the developer to the paking shortage. Costco may not like the idea of losing parking at its parking peripheral.
 
The traffic issue has already been discussed.



<a href="http://www.ocregister.com/news/tustin-center-district-1948868-axtell-road">http://www.ocregister.com/news/tustin-center-district-1948868-axtell-road</a>
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1221633244]The traffic issue has already been discussed.



<a href="http://www.ocregister.com/news/tustin-center-district-1948868-axtell-road">http://www.ocregister.com/news/tustin-center-district-1948868-axtell-road</a></blockquote>
This was the article I was talking about... notice the date.



9 months later it's still a problem. Vestar claiming that Warner and Tustin Ranch Road are supposed to be the main entrances is so bogus because you can tell by the design of District drive... they meant that as the main entrance. And who wouldn't use it? That's the one close to main shopping areas (InNOut, Best Buy, main shopping strip, secondary shopping strip and Lucilles) and Jamboree/Barranca. They don't want to admit that they:



1. Didn't make it wide enough to serve as a main entrance.

2. Didn't build it correctly to allow unimpeded pedestrian and auto traffic (via pedestrian bridges)

3. Did not design the parking lots well enough to allow for uncongested navigation.



Knowing they wanted to make it a center similar to the Block or the Spectrum, they should have planned the layout better in ways of access, space usage and parking. Look at what happened to the Spectrum and the Block... parking structures! So why not build them before instead of after? You can actually open up more access space that way and built a proper entrance on Barranca instead of that bottleneck District Drive (sure it's not THE main entrance... you only named it after the center).
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1221633244]The traffic issue has already been discussed.



<a href="http://www.ocregister.com/news/tustin-center-district-1948868-axtell-road">http://www.ocregister.com/news/tustin-center-district-1948868-axtell-road</a></blockquote>


The article is only addressing access into the center during peak volume and circulation dealing with mass traffic volume. What RickHunter and I are talking about is a whole separate issue. Our observations of the problem exist even when there is no traffic during the night. We are talking about the excessive turns and twiste vehicular path inside the parking lots away from the collector roads especially near Costco heading over to Target. A frequent trip route for most shoppers.



Most centers aligned all the fronts of the facade for all the big box tenants and let the rear of the different building with different depth undulate at the back of the property. This method wasted a lot of room at the rear of the big box retails. The excess at the rear are mostly unoccupied and undesirable parking. At the District the formula is opposite by fleshing out the rear for land efficiency and let the front of the buildings take the offsets. Architecturally it is more dramatic but until the drive that is in front of the buildings also takes the twist and turn. The typical driving path from Costco to Target required 9 turns via the internal parking lots.
 
<blockquote>The typical driving path from Costco to Target required 9 turns via the internal parking lots.</blockquote>
I can do that path in in... 2 turns... hehe.



I'm sorry if I'm venting about The District... I like the place... I just don't like how it's laid out. It's like they tried to cross the hangout concept with the big box one... in not a very good way.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1221634404]The typical driving path from Costco to Target required 9 turns via the internal parking lots.</blockquote>


What are you smoking. Driving from Costco to Target is exactly zero turns. It's a straight path on the interior road.



<img src="http://www.thedistricttl.com/images/new/directory_map.gif" alt="" />



Building 54 to building 52.
 
Whoever designed the district's layout needs to be shot. District drive is a joke. It should have been on the other side of AMC and then led to a parking garage and Park Ave. They could have made that mall twice the size. It's like a High-School class designed it.
 
No design team can be this stupid!



I have a feeling that the clients had something to do with it. Maybe they had their pick on the land.

If I'm costco and I circled a spot on the map, then that's where I am...maybe



Then there are the politicians that want it done ASAP.

I'm thinking the design team didnt have enough design, due diligence time, etc. to do their job...



But then again, maybe there was an idiot amongst them.



[quote author="PadreBrian" date=1221638022]Whoever designed the district's layout needs to be shot. District drive is a joke. It should have been on the other side of AMC and then led to a parking garage and Park Ave. They could have made that mall twice the size. It's like a High-School class designed it.</blockquote>
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1221636400][quote author="bkshopr" date=1221634404]The typical driving path from Costco to Target required 9 turns via the internal parking lots.</blockquote>


What are you smoking. Driving from Costco to Target is exactly zero turns. It's a straight path on the interior road.



<img src="http://www.thedistricttl.com/images/new/directory_map.gif" alt="" />



Building 54 to building 52.</blockquote>


To go from building 54 Costco to building 53 Lowes if you take the road in front of Costco then you will be in for a journey.



25 random shoppers with carts exiting the building in front of the 45 degree entry as well as shoppers walking every which way in front of the building.



I did that once and drove toward buildings 53 and the road becomes the back up aisle of 2 parking bays of 90 degree stalls with all Asian drivers and I waited there for several cars to back out plus their giant shopping carts rolling across the road because the road is pitched.



Then the road runs straight into the planter at the right side of Lowe. The road does a quick swerve then in front of Lowe where trucks parked illegally in front of the store for picking up large items.



Gazebos, BBQ grilles and other big granite samples were spilling over the sidewalks. Shoppers with steel crates took forever crossing the street plus all the cars drive aisles spill on to this street.



To the right of Lowes is a building protrusion that has people dashing out where the driver can't see very well in a blind spot



Then driving across Lowes the street unexpectedly took another skew finally coming into the intersection between building 53 and 52 Target



Not knowing cars were parked in the shade between the 2 buildings vehicles drove out to the intersection and the cars could not drive straight to the main exit aisle across the intersection. To exit the cars had to swerve and almost clip another car from my opposing direction.



I finally took another swerve to the right across the front of Target. I did not even include the nighmare pulling out of the space where I parked.



I do not ever want to drive on the road in front of these buildings. I tried to avoid the hazard by taking the parking aisles.



AsianInvasion, Try driving from Costco to Target and take your hand off the steering wheel!! See how may times you will be running into sometings. Keep count of how many swerves on the road then you will be surprised. This little key map is a legend and is over simplified. The details of the roads do not show up on this map as well as the crazy Asian drivers.



Add up all the element and welcome to the twist and swerve of Indiana Jone ride.



The mis-alignment of streets, drives and unexpected swerve are the biggest issue in the entire site planning layout. The un-expected blind corners and unpredictable places of traffic dashing out is a danger. When we view the overall site plan we do not see the nuances until we drive it from the driver's point of perspective.



When we see a swerve on a freeway on a road map it looks safe and natural. The actual condition is very dangerous and can cause death. When you drive on a swerve road check for tire scrape marks along the curb. I guarantee you will find many.



My firm specializes in helping retail clients in minimiziing liability. Parking and drive aisle are the places of injuries often occured.



Look at building 77 and the opening of the road coming straight into a building corner without much room to make a left or right turn. There is no stacking distance the car right behind it will rear end the car that just stop to make a decision for the turn. Drive across to the other side to the Lowe 53 parking lot and it swerves into a parking aisle instead of a street or road.



There are over 100 problematic issues with the vehicular diagram of this project.
 
I go there all the time, traffic is not an issue if you know where the traffic is. Basically you want to avoid Park Ave. Too many 4-way intersections and stop signs and people making left turns. Take Warner or Tustin Ranch and as soon as you pull onto Park Ave turn into the parking lot and stay on the interior roads. I'm in and out of Costco or Target in less than 10 seconds every single time.
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1221640468]I go there all the time, traffic is not an issue if you know where the traffic is. Basically you want to avoid Park Ave. Too many 4-way intersections and stop signs and people making left turns. Take Warner or Tustin Ranch and as soon as you pull onto Park Ave turn into the parking lot and stay on the interior roads. I'm in and out of Costco or Target in less than 10 seconds every single time.</blockquote>


Unless you work or live there and know the tricks in getting around. This is not a neighborhood center. This is a power center drawing unfamiliar shoppers from a 15 miles radius and an average Hop Sing can't even drive on a straight path and Let alone the mis-alignments and swerves on roads and the lack of stackings at the District. This is the perfect place for the Irvine DMV in making the driver exam difficult and thus less crazy Asian drivers on the road.
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1221636400][quote author="bkshopr" date=1221634404]The typical driving path from Costco to Target required 9 turns via the internal parking lots.</blockquote>


What are you smoking. Driving from Costco to Target is exactly zero turns. It's a straight path on the interior road.



<img src="http://www.thedistricttl.com/images/new/directory_map.gif" alt="" />



Building 54 to building 52.</blockquote>


when i come out of costco i have no money left for target...
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1221622683][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1221620169][quote author="25w100k+" date=1221617287][quote author="bkshopr" date=1221614375]

as long one is not bothered by the ridicules when their kids will be humiliated by living on the wrong size of the track. The culture is Irvine is all about brandings and matching up with the Joneses</blockquote>


That doesn't make sense. There are million dollar homes in CG and there are POS weird ass condos in woodbury. Living in one 'neighborhood or the other' doesn't matter to kids.</blockquote>
Bobby: Hey check out my huge house, I have a giant playroom and my room has its own potty!

Freddie: But you also have a $9k Mello Roos, land toxicity, a poorly planned neighborhood and you live in Tustin.

Bobby: I'm telling my daddy!</blockquote>


That is funny but so true. Even Shady Canyon has the Irvine side and Newport side. The West side of the golfcourse are the Elites while the Irvine side with several production projects tainted the purity of being all super rich. People compare their bags, cars, homes, neighborhoods, kids' school, kids' grades, kids' college admissions, and everything else. Get real !! The culture of Irvine and Newport is contagious. Status is everything. I made a living from studying this and it is not going away. The sense of feeling like second class in Columbus one will eventually move just like West Irvinites upgrading to another neighborhood.</blockquote>


bkshopr, i had some odd respect for your opinion ad input in plenty of posts, but you are loosing it on this one... not sure what your agenda is or who brainwashed you... the culture of irvine is comparing handbags... oh boy



you pointed out to a lot of other people, that they are definding there village, may it be VoC or any other non-irvine community, but you sure are on a roll trying hard to sell your McMansions where you can look at your neighbor taking a shower...



you have some connection to irvine, regardless your posts are just becoming entertaining instead of informative, sorry you lost me...
 
Bah, once again BK is right on the money in his observations. Whether those observations are on communities, parking lots, or handbags. Or wife validation.
 
[quote author="flmgrip" date=1221648758][quote author="bkshopr" date=1221622683][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1221620169][quote author="25w100k+" date=1221617287][quote author="bkshopr" date=1221614375]

as long one is not bothered by the ridicules when their kids will be humiliated by living on the wrong size of the track. The culture is Irvine is all about brandings and matching up with the Joneses</blockquote>


That doesn't make sense. There are million dollar homes in CG and there are POS weird ass condos in woodbury. Living in one 'neighborhood or the other' doesn't matter to kids.</blockquote>
Bobby: Hey check out my huge house, I have a giant playroom and my room has its own potty!

Freddie: But you also have a $9k Mello Roos, land toxicity, a poorly planned neighborhood and you live in Tustin.

Bobby: I'm telling my daddy!</blockquote>


That is funny but so true. Even Shady Canyon has the Irvine side and Newport side. The West side of the golfcourse are the Elites while the Irvine side with several production projects tainted the purity of being all super rich. People compare their bags, cars, homes, neighborhoods, kids' school, kids' grades, kids' college admissions, and everything else. Get real !! The culture of Irvine and Newport is contagious. Status is everything. I made a living from studying this and it is not going away. The sense of feeling like second class in Columbus one will eventually move just like West Irvinites upgrading to another neighborhood.</blockquote>


bkshopr, i had some odd respect for your opinion ad input in plenty of posts, but you are loosing it on this one... not sure what your agenda is or who brainwashed you... the culture of irvine is comparing handbags... oh boy



you pointed out to a lot of other people, that they are definding there village, may it be VoC or any other non-irvine community, but you sure are on a roll trying hard to sell your McMansions where you can look at your neighbor taking a shower...



you have some connection to irvine, regardless your posts are just becoming entertaining instead of informative, sorry you lost me...</blockquote>


Sorry. I do not sell or like McMansions. I don't own one and will never own one. I do not live or work in Irvine.



You may not be from Irvine and definitely not Newport. You are a guy and do not have a clue about handbags.
 
[quote author="CK" date=1221649601]Bah, once again BK is right on the money in his observations. Whether those observations are on communities, parking lots, or handbags. Or wife validation.</blockquote>


This is why we love BK, he tells the truth.



Oh... and I have been to the district many times, the parking lot was designed by laid off new home sales agents on a meth binge. It is the dumbest design I have seen since I got lost in some traffic square outside of Tijuana.



<em>*refrains from the graph version of validation comment*</em>
 
Architects and engineers design site plans and roads with a top view perspective. Everything is clear from the top view when one could see the entire context like the key map that AsianInvasion posted.



It looks absolutely normal until one experiences the layout from the driver seat. When speed is fast a bend or the swerve could become fatal. Architects often design with aesthetic in mind thinking the meandering roads are prettier. Architects were not trained as traffic and road engineers. Perkowitz Ruth Architects who designed Legacy also designed Riverwalk in Fresno another nightmare with curving streets and mis-alignments.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1221652571]Architects and engineers design site plans and roads with a top view perspective. Everything is clear from the top view when one could see the entire context like the key map that AsianInvasion posted.



It looks absolutely normal until one experiences the layout from the driver seat. When speed is fast a bend or the swerve could become fatal. Architects often design with aesthetic in mind thinking the meandering roads are prettier. Architects were not trained as traffic and road engineers. Perkowitz Ruth Architects who designed Legacy also designed Riverwalk in Fresno another nightmare with curving streets and mis-alignments.</blockquote>


You should see Riverwalk at Christmas. It's enough to make you want to switch to Judaism.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1221652571]Architects and engineers design site plans and roads with a top view perspective. Everything is clear from the top view when one could see the entire context like the key map that AsianInvasion posted.



It looks absolutely normal until one experiences the layout from the driver seat. When speed is fast a bend or the swerve could become fatal. Architects often design with aesthetic in mind thinking the meandering roads are prettier. Architects were not trained as traffic and road engineers. Perkowitz Ruth Architects who designed Legacy also designed Riverwalk in Fresno another nightmare with curving streets and mis-alignments.</blockquote>








It seems to me that the worst bottle neck in traffic is at the Target.

Getting in and out of there is never easy.

Do you think Shea will do a better job with their part of the development?
 
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