Buyer Agent Thoughts?

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
<p>Following up on this issue -</p>

<p>I saw a house for sale down the street from my brother. It's a neighborhood that I love and have been priced out of until recently. It's been listed for over 90 days with no bites. I don't have an agent nor do I want to get one. I need the seller to go down 15% which I think he will do if he doesn't have to pay the 6% commision.</p>

<p>Is there a legal issue if I approach the owner and ask him if his house doesn't sell within the protection period, then I would like to purchase it from him at a 15% discount?</p>

<p>Any lawyers out there?</p>
 
I don't know about legally, but morally, I would wait until the listing expires. I might tell him/her that I am waiting to speak with him/her when the listing expires.
 
<p>I have been considering Redfin, I am just a little leary of having to call the sellers agent to see the home. From what I have read they are not to big on doing it.</p>

<p>I am also considering using a friend, but I really do not want to feel pressured to up my low ball offers or be in any kind of hurry.</p>

<p>What about dealing directly with the seller agent without an agent yourself? Seems to me that the sellers agent may be much more motivated to get the owner to accept your offer if he has the chance of scoring both ends of the 6%.</p>
 
capocorso - My experience is just the opposite with seller's agents. My experience is they are very happy to show the home and make a deal with no buyer's agent. There is one less commission involved in the deal which makes greater the possibility of a price match.
 
<p><em>I don't know about legally, but morally, I would wait until the listing expires</em></p>

<p>But what if they don't know you are out there waiting ? If they want to sell, they'll probably re-list immediately. </p>
 
No, I agree they would be more than happy to show the home if I did not have an agent, but if I say I am working with Redfin or some other discount broker I have read several items which suggest that agents will not do it.
 
<p> </p>

<p>Newbie27</p>

<p>Would you expect the listing agent to be a dual agent or represent the seller only and you represent yourself?</p>

<p>What are your thoughts? There are legal realities for the agent depending on which way you choose or the agent chooses.</p>

<p>I can provide further info on this subject based on your answer.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Regards</p>

<p> </p>
 
Sarge - That is why I said I might contact the seller and let them know that I want to talk with them when the listing expires. Think for a second, if you are in the seller's shoes and a neighbor or friend of a friend or someone else says to you, "Would you please contact me at this number before you re-list?"
 
<p>Awgee</p>

<p>The buyer could have the listing agent either represent both sides as a duel agent or only represent the seller in which case the buyer has to be responsible for his actions. I did not like being a duel agent since I think it is very hard to have a relationship with the owner for a period of time and then represent both sides fairly. Even though the agent usually makes more commission in the duel agent capacity I think the buyer is at a disadvantage. Duel agency is legal in Calif as long as all parties are notified in writing. dual agency can often generate litigation.</p>

<p>If I were approached by a buyer and they want to represent themselves then I have them sign a disclosure that they understand that I only represent the seller. They are then fair game for me to do what is best for my seller. In fact it is my responsibility to represent the seller in the highest and best way. I would then do everything legal to get the best deal for my seller. If I were representing you as a listing agent you would want me to do the very best to protect your interest. The unrepresented buyer would be at somewhat of a disadvantage unless they were very well versed in all aspects of the transaction.</p>

<p>The buyer usually won't get much of a savings representing theirselves since often the commission is something like 6% split between the listing and selling broker and 4 or 5% if the listing agent represents both sides. This is of course negotiated during the listing. The savings is usually passed to the seller.</p>

<p>As long as the home is listed I think it really benifits the buyer to use a buyer's agent and negotiate the comission with that agent since I doubt if they will save more by going directly to the listing agent.</p>

<p>If there is no listing agent involved then it is a different story.</p>

<p>I have represented sellers when a stranger has contacted them direct to buy their home. They wanted their interests protected and had me act for them for a set fee even though the buyer approched them when their home was not listed. Sales price was 2 mil plus and they didn't want to get into an escrow unless they felt comfprtable with the legalities of disclosures and they did not want to deal directly with people they didn't know anything about. Sometimes in that income range it is about more than money.</p>

<p>I think that you would be able to represent yourself but not everyone can. A first time purchase can be tough as we just followed the transaction with Lennar that didn't work out.</p>

<p>Regards</p>

<p> </p>
 
<p>xlm,</p>

<p>I like your postings .</p>

<p>You are very kind to spend your time and explain how the real estate process work; however, people will do what they want to do.</p>

<p>We all know that there are right ways and wrong ways to do things; however, people learn best through making mistakes.</p>

<p>As parents, we tell our kids to do this and that, and not to do this and that. Some will listen to you and some won't. </p>

<p>Have a great day.</p>
 
<p>NIR</p>

<p>Thanks for the good words. I hope that my experience can help sort out some of the emotional or non fact based responses I see here. Like I said earlier I don't have rose colored glasses but neither do I buy into all of the downside attitude here. If someone is misinformed they may make a decision that affects them in a negative way a nd that can be an expensive mistake.</p>

<p>This is a thread very similiar to the response to Chuck's question. I can't understand why a non experienced person would try to buy direct from a listing agent on a home that is currently listed. I know they think they are saving money but I doubt that will be the case. </p>

<p>FYI I just passed my 90 hours of education and state test for a brokers license in Arizona and will activate it this month. As a broker in 2 states with 30 years in new home and resale business I still look forward to smoothing out the process.</p>

<p>Enjoy!!</p>

<p> </p>

<p> </p>
 
<p>I can't find any laws/regulations about whether a buyer can contact a represented seller directly, bypassing the seller's agent. In my world, if you know a party is represented by an attorney, you are barred from contacting that party directly under our ethics rules (there is exception for another party contacting that person, so, if I, as an attorney for plaintiff, cannot contact the defendant who has representation, my client, the plaintiff, absolutely can. </p>

<p>Transferring this requirement into real estate, I'd think it would be unethical for buyer's agent trying to contact a represented seller, but it is ok for a buyer to contact the seller directly. The seller would still have to pay his agent's commission however (and maybe the entire 6%, since there is no other agent to split it up and the typical listing contract says you have to pay 6%, unless there is a cooperating broker, in which case, it is split 50/50). In such a case, the seller is not going to be happy if you come w/t an agent... </p>
 
<i>"I can't understand why a non experienced person would try to buy direct from a listing agent on a home that is currently listed. I know they think they are saving money but I doubt that will be the case."</i><p>

Because the experience that many, many folks have had with <b>realtors</b> is that folks have no reason to think that having a realtor represent them will save them any money and their experience is that having a realtor represent them will cost them. They have no reason to think that the experienced realtor has the buyer's interest as a priority and they every reason to think otherwise. Yes, the realtor has experience. But, that does not mean the realtor is using that experience in his client's interest. And we have found the realtor's first interest is their own commission, not the client's interest, which may be many other options other than closing the deal on something which is not appropriate for them.<p>


Is there any way in which I may respectfully suggest that if you still do not understand this, then you may not be listening? I am not trying to put you down. But, it seems that you keep on insisting that realtor's experience translates into the buyer's best interest. Please hear this if you want to understand. We have found the realtor's experience does not necessarily translate into the client's best interest. In fact, it seems to be the opposite most of the time. Generally speaking, most realtors, not all, but most, are looking out for their interest, not their clients.
 
<p>I agree with awgee. Think about it this way: </p>

<p>Compare: </p>

<p>1. an attorney working on a contingency fee ONLY gets paid if he/she wins a case for the client. Naturally, you can be 100% sure that if there is any way to win this case, this attorney will win it for you/at least try as hard as he can. </p>

<p>2. a buyer's agent ONLY gets paid if the buyer buys a house. Consequently, any buyer's agent will go out of his/her way to ensure that you, the buyer, buy something. And please don't tell me that a buyer's agent is in it to help people find their dream homes...Maybe for a week or 2 they still think about buyer's best interests, but after that...no way. Like one of my former real estate agents said to me a while ago (in a slightly threatening tone and manner): "Ok, I showed you 10 homes already. It is now a time for you to buy something."</p>

<p>It is a very simple thing, just think about what people's objectives are. </p>

<p> </p>
 
<p><em>Like one of my former real estate agents said to me a while ago (in a slightly threatening tone and manner): "Ok, I showed you 10 homes already. It is now a time for you to buy something."</em></p>

<p>blackacre, I had one do this to me too...he was my listing agent and when my home went contingent, I started looking in earnest. Over a 2 week period, I looked at about 15 homes, but none were the right "fit" for me. He got snippy with me after he showed me "the perfect home" for me, and I didn't like the layout. He apparently knew what home I was supposed to buy, better than I did. He proceeded to tell me that I was being too picky and this market wouldn't put up with waffling ! I canned him. </p>

<p>Agents. Don't ever make your clients feel guilty for not buying, it will backfire on you.</p>
 
Awgee



Nice to hear from you again.



I understand the thought but I don't agree.



"Because the experience that many, many folks have had with realtors is that folks have no reason to think that having a realtor represent them will save them any money and their experience is that having a realtor represent them will cost them. They have no reason to think that the experienced realtor has the buyer's interest as a priority and they every reason to think otherwise. Yes, the realtor has experience. But, that does not mean the realtor is using that experience in his client's interest. And we have found the realtor's first interest is their own commission, not the client's interest, which may be many other options other than closing the deal on something which is not appropriate for them."



It sounds like many people do not know how to select a good agent to represent them or good agents don't want their business.







I would not even try to say that most realtors or agents are experienced. I am looking forward to the fact that this current downturn will weed out lots of the part timers and new people who have not done a good job. Maybe the agents that most of those on this board have been exposed to fall into that catagory. I have had to deal with some real poor examples myself.





The point I was making is that if a person who has not bought or sold many homes or worse yet was a first time buyer and he/she represented themselves on an offer on a home that I represented then I would think that my seller would be much better represented than the buyer.



I think you would do a good job of self representation but most people would not be up to it. As far as experience it would be as if I tried to do my own taxes. You know far more than I do about that through your experience and knowledge of tax laws and "loopholes'. I use an enrolled agent since I file in 2 states and have a complicated filing due to investments. I never make a buying or selling decision without contacting him to see what the tax implications are. I know I save far more than I pay him.



Believe me, I would not let a person that I represent get their home tied up in escrow with an inexperienced agent or non represented buyer without my seller being protected. I take my responsibilities seriously and enjoy the competition as much as the money. As far as experience I may rephrase that to include knowledge and understanding of real estate laws. I protect my clients like a "junk yard dog" and will do all that is legal to represent them in the best way.



I can insert a word or clause in a contract or counter offer that will lay away a newbie agent or unrepresented person. That is my job in getting the best deal for my client. Its kind of like a person taking a knife to a gunfight. They lose!



I speak only for myself, not other agents.



"We have found the realtor's experience does not necessarily translate into the client's best interest. In fact, it seems to be the opposite most of the time." I am not sure who the "we" is that you refer too.



Maybe people should spend more time finding a quality agent who is willing to work with them. Like I said in other posts there are many people I would not want to be my clients. I am fortunate that I am in a position that I only work with whom I choose and do my own deals.



On another note it looks like your gold is doing well.



Regards
 
<i>"It sounds like many people do not know how to select a good agent to represent them or good agents don't want their business."</i><p>

At the risk of engaging in a bit of hyperbole, the suggestion of selecting a good agent may be akin to finding a needle in a haystack. Seriously, if you are that needle, please do not take anything I write personally.<p>

<i>"The point I was making is that if a person who has not bought or sold many homes or worse yet was a first time buyer and he/she represented themselves on an offer on a home that I represented then I would think that my seller would be much better represented than the buyer."</i><p>

Maybe, but how in the heck does a newbie find an agent who will represent their best interests? Please walk carefully on this one, as the bs antenna are way up.<p>

<i>"I think you would do a good job of self representation but most people would not be up to it"</i><p>

Thanks, and I do ok up to the negotiation part, and then I recognize there are folks in my world who are much better at negotiation than I and I need their asssistance.<p>

<i>"As far as experience it would be as if I tried to do my own taxes. You know far more than I do about that through your experience and knowledge of tax laws and "loopholes'. I use an enrolled agent since I file in 2 states and have a complicated filing due to investments. I never make a buying or selling decision without contacting him to see what the tax implications are. I know I save far more than I pay him."</i><p>

Good point! What percentage of your return does your EA charge? (Warning - This is a trick question)<p>

<i>"I am not sure who the "we" is that you refer too. "</i><p>

Sorry, I thought about that "we" and used it anyways with the knowledge that there are many others in here and elsewhere who have had the same experiences I have had. I do not that "we" lightly, but only to make a point that many have had these experiences.<p>

IMO, gold is part of a long term commodity bull market and will gain status and value as a currency as the dollar loses it's status as the world reserve currency.
 
<p>awgee</p>

<p><em>"At the risk of engaging in a bit of hyperbole, the suggestion of selecting a good agent may be akin to finding a needle in a haystack. Seriously, if you are that needle, please do not take anything I write personally."</em></p>

<p>That is a good question. I would ask friends and family for referrals that they were happy with and interview several of these and ask them for referances. Look up their record at DRE and have them sit down and provide you with a face to face interview. Part of my decisions on who I do business with is gut feeling after I do my research. I have recently relocated out of SoCal and am going through that process with doctors, dentists, banks, vets, and I agree that it is hard to find good people and you usually don't know if you made a good decision for a while. <strong>Of course I think I am that needle.</strong></p>

<p><em>"Maybe, but how in the heck does a newbie find an agent who will represent their best interests? Please walk carefully on this one, as the bs antenna are way up."</em></p>

<p>Another good question. This relates to above answer. How would I find a good enrolled agent in a new area? My no BS answer is that I would not use anyone who hadn't been in the business for less than 10 years and would probably look for a broker rather than an agent. I would not use a Team since they tend to delegate to low paid assistants. I would ask for referances from at least 4 repeat clients. <strong>The key is the repeat clients. If an agent has been in the business for ten years and doesn't have repeat clients then there is a reason and it probably isnt a good one.</strong></p>

<p><strong>"<em>Good point! What percentage of your return does your EA charge? (Warning - This is a trick question)"</em></strong></p>

<p>Too much. LOL Actually he charges a base rate and then so much per scheduale. Is that the norm? I have been with the same firm and person for over 20 years. We have had 2 audits both of which he represented me and we prevailed. Did I pass the trick part?? LOL</p>

<p>"<em>Thanks, and I do ok up to the negotiation part, and then I recognize there are folks in my world who are much better at negotiation than I and I need their asssistance."</em></p>

<p>It is sometimes better to have a third party negotiating since it is hard to take the emotion out of parting with your home or your money. Some people can do it but buying and selling is usually an emotional experience especially with needs of wife and children involved. I have seen deals fall apart for the strangest reasons. Sometimes the buyer accidently insults the seller or for cultural reasons. </p>

<p>True investments (other than primary residences) are much more cut and dried.</p>

<p>Maybe we can meet on chat sometime for your input on precious metals.</p>

<p>Enjoy!</p>
 
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