Biden v. Palin

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The reason the debate wasn't a train wreck for Palin was because of the format of the debate. If they allowed for more rebuttal and the moderator pressed for real answers like Katie Couric and Jim Lehrer did, it would have been another disaster for Palin, because I did not see any substance in her answers. She is just a very very irresponsible pick by John McCain. If she becomes the president, she will just be a puppet of the same clowns that ran our country into the ground in the last 8 years.



I agree with a lot of the Republican ideologies. However, the current Republican party has strayed so far away from they core beliefs they should not be called the Republican party anymore. The only true well-known Republican I know and agree with is Ron Paul. Romney gained a bit of new respect from me for saying the Republican Party has lost its soul. The others are pretty much the defend-their-party-at-all-cost people, which is the mass psychology that caused a lot of big tragedies in the world.



If Ron Paul has more charisma and is the Republican ticket, I would be so comfortable with this election that I don't have to worry about who wins. Just my 2 cents.
 
[quote author="socalmd" date=1223146843]well at least Moore and the rt wing nuts take a side. Time to man up(or woman up) and form an actual opinion.</blockquote>


Since it appears you don't read well, I'll repeat there, doctor. I do have an opinion --- it is that the 10% who reside on the right AND left fringes are not productive in moving the country forward. I am confident that McCain does not live on that fringe, but I think his running mate does. I'm pretty confident Biden does not live on that fringe, but nobody has yet demonstrated to me that Obama does not live on that fringe, along Michael Moore, Reverend Wright, Reverend Phleger and yourself. I'm looking for reassurance that Mr. Obama will not be pushing their worldview in office.



As you don't appear to be very well versed in the history politics in the US, perhaps you should google the term "silent majority". After you look it up, could you report back to all of us your findings, and how they related to the outcome of 1972 election? And then stretch your brain, and ask yourself if there is any risk of that happening this time, given the historic nature of the candidate and the current polarization of the country. And then ask yourself if pounding your chest and yelling "we don't need your vote" is the best strategy for putting your guy in office?



Last time I engaged in the political forums of IHB someone sent me a PM warning of the pitfalls of arguing with idiots. I didn't listen that time --- but I will this time. I'm out.
 
[quote author="socalmd" date=1223146843]

well at least Moore and the rt wing nuts take a side. Time to man up(or woman up) and form an actual opinion.</blockquote>
Actually, I need your opinion Socal, what type of cheese goes best with whine? :lol:
 
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QDpPZjihN0">A McCain supporter with just enough gray matter...</a> and <a href="http://www.236.com/feed/2008/10/01/hooooweeeee_git_you_sum_rednec_9241.php?print=1">some mCKain supporters that still fall short.</a>
 
[quote author="MacInThebox" date=1223157822]The reason the debate wasn't a train wreck for Palin was because of the format of the debate. If they allowed for more rebuttal and the moderator pressed for real answers like Katie Couric and Jim Lehrer did, it would have been another disaster for Palin, because I did not see any substance in her answers. She is just a very very irresponsible pick by John McCain. If she becomes the president, she will just be a puppet of the same clowns that ran our country into the ground in the last 8 years.



I agree with a lot of the Republican ideologies. However, the current Republican party has strayed so far away from they core beliefs they should not be called the Republican party anymore. The only true well-known Republican I know and agree with is Ron Paul. Romney gained a bit of new respect from me for saying the Republican Party has lost its soul. The others are pretty much the defend-their-party-at-all-cost people, which is the mass psychology that caused a lot of big tragedies in the world.



If Ron Paul has more charisma and is the Republican ticket, I would be so comfortable with this election that I don't have to worry about who wins. Just my 2 cents.</blockquote>


-hear hear. I like Ron Paul also. maybe he will be back.
 
[quote author="CK" date=1223141727]Maybe you should read what you just wrote, Gotti. You are gleeful that you "got under the skin" of somebody who is considering voting for your candidate. If you really support your candidate, shouldn't you be working for every vote you can get? Maybe my vote (and yours) don't matter in California, but take both of us and multiply by millions in battleground states. Self righteous pricks like yourself and the rest of the Olbermann minions should step back and realize that there are more of me than you. People like me hated the Bush far-right neocon agenda, but a far left Mike Moore agenda is no more appealing.



My biggest fear of Obama is that he is a left wing apologist just like Mr. Moore. I don't want the country to swing all the way left any more than I wanted it all the way right. With a Democrat controlled House and Senate, that is a valid concern. Maybe you (and the millions like you in places like Ohio, Virginia, and Florida) should step off the soapbox and try to convince undecideds why to vote for your guy, rather than "get under their skin"? I read your guy needed about an 8 point lead heading into election day, to beat back the Bradley effect. Last I checked, he does not have it. You need every vote you can get, and like it or not -- our vote counts exactly the same as yours.</blockquote>


Speaking only for myself. I have donated money to Obama. I have the Obama stickers on my car. I wear my Obama sweater. I read one of his books and one book about him. All in my own personal effort to see what he was about. I have convinced a few friends face to face why I like him. 95% of people who see my sweater say they like it. except for the Hater in Home depot who said "OBAMA Osama. Fuck you and gave me the finger" I ignored him but he is lucky I did not kick his ass.





MCCains Judgment is really suspect thats my issue. as Biden said don't question the motive question the judgement.
 
Palin just confused me and scares me that if she becomes the VP she is just a heartbeat away from being the commander and chief. She may be OK in Alaska politics but has no business being in Washington. Joe was great and won by a landslide. If Biden ever became President i would not feel worried. McCain pandering to the staunch republican conservatives when there are dozens of great women out there to choose from just made the biggest idiot decision to lose the election.
 
Here are some debate quotes from Palin/Biden. http://www.sefermpost.com/sefermpost/2008/10/joe-biden-sarah.html



<em>Quotes from Democratic Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware and Republican Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska during their vice presidential debate Thursday at Washington University in St. Louis:



On the Iraq war:



BIDEN:

"Barack Obama offered a clear plan. Shift responsibility to Iraqis over the next 16 months. Draw down our combat troops. Ironically the same plan that (Nouri al-) Maliki, the prime minister of Iraq and George Bush are now negotiating. The only odd man out here, only one left out is John McCain, number one. Number two, with regard to Barack Obama not quote funding the troops, John McCain voted the exact same way. John McCain voted against funding the troops because of an amendment he voted against had a timeline in it to draw down American troops."



PALIN:

"Your plan is a white flag of surrender in Iraq and that is not what our troops need to hear today, that's for sure. And it's not what our nation needs to be able to count on. You guys opposed the surge. The surge worked. Barack Obama still can't admit the surge works. We'll know when we're finished in Iraq when the Iraqi government can govern its people and when the Iraqi security forces can secure its people. And our commanders on the ground will tell us when those conditions have been met. And Maliki and (Iraqi President Jalal) Talabani also in working with us are knowing again that we are getting closer and closer to that point, that victory that's within sight."



___



On who is at fault for the subprime lending meltdown:



PALIN:

"Darn right it was the predator lenders, who tried to talk Americans into thinking that it was smart to buy a $300,000 house if we could only afford a $100,000 house. There was deception there, and there was greed and there is corruption on Wall Street. And we need to stop that. Again, John McCain and I, that commitment that we have made, and we're going to follow through on that, getting rid of that corruption."



BIDEN:

"Two years ago Barack Obama warned about the subprime mortgage crisis. John McCain said shortly after that in December he was surprised there was a subprime mortgage problem. John McCain while Barack Obama was warning about what we had to do was literally giving an interview to the Wall Street Journal saying that I'm always for cutting regulations. We let Wall Street run wild."



___



On the causes of climate change:



BIDEN:

"If you don't understand what the cause is, it's virtually impossible to come up with a solution. We know what the cause is. The cause is man made. That's the cause. That's why the polar ice cap is melting."



PALIN:

"I'm not one to attribute every man ? activity of man to the changes in the climate. There is something to be said also for man's activities, but also for the cyclical temperature changes on our planet. But there are real changes going on in our climate. And I don't want to argue about the causes. What I want to argue about is, how are we going to get there to positively affect the impacts?"



___



On whether they support gay marriage:



BIDEN:

"No. Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically the decision to be able to be left to faiths and people who practice their faiths, the determination, what you call it."



PALIN:

"Your question to him was whether he supported gay marriage and my answer is the same as his and it is that I do not."



___



On taxes:



BIDEN:

"Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes. The vote she's referring to, John McCain voted the exact same way. It was a budget procedural vote. John McCain voted the same way. It did not raise taxes. Number two, using the standard that the governor uses, John McCain voted 477 times to raise taxes."



PALIN:

"We can speak in agreement here that darn right we need tax relief for Americans so that jobs can be created here. Now, Barack Obama and Sen. Biden also voted for the largest tax increases in U.S. history. Barack had 94 opportunities to side on the people's side and reduce taxes and 94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction, 94 times. Now, that's not what we need to create jobs and really bolster and heat up our economy."



-- AP</em>
 
What we Republicans and Independents are offended by is the lack of seriousness exemplified by gleefully pro-Obama posts. Yes, Palin was a terrible VP choice, and my gag reflex went into overdrive every time she winked - but NONE of you really know squat about Obama. My vote will be based on who has the best shot at fixing the mess we are in. I am a lifelong Republican, but I did vote for Clinton in 1992 because he was the better candidate. Smug, gleeful children who adhere to a party line regardless of candidate qualifications do nothing to promote their party, they simply piss off those who take this election seriously.



Right now, my vote is 50.0000000001% Obama. It was 50.0000000001% McCain prior to the debates. We know McCain, we do not know Obama. I hope that Obama is the next Clinton, but we have less than a month left to see what shakes loose.



Biden said that global warming is caused by man. That is terrifying, as the science is still out. Anyone wants to argue with me on that one, bring it on, you will just demonstrate your ignorance of science for all to see. Certainly, industrialization may play into current trends, but the timeframe is far too short to produce anything but a speculative hypothesis. This is science that has been hijacked by politics. Biden was wrong. Hopefully Obama is more rational. Biden also said that he hoped that troubled homeowners should have the PRINCIPAL balances on their loans reduced to a level that they can afford. That is an absolute non-starter, and something that I hope is clarified by Obama. Keeping people in homes they could never afford is an unconscionable abuse of governmental power at the expense of those who have behaved responsibly.



Biden kicked Palin's ass. Palin's ignorance regarding the Constitutional authority for the office she seeks is extremely troubling. That and her refusal to answer questions at the only debate she will be in are reason enough to disqaulify her.



But Obama is not necessarily our savior. The sycophantic worship of some here is silly at best.



Providing a timeline for withdrawal from Iraq is lunacy - a political stunt designed to appease liberals who don't have a clue about military reality. His economic plan is straight-out class warfare. His solution for everything is to throw money at it. Hopefully, he will realize that cannot work and will prove intelligent and savvy enough to take the path Clinton took.



We don't know enough about Obama, but we do know enough about McCain. He just doesn't get it regarding too many issues, it seems. He also refuses to release his medical records (melanoma can be fatal), so the Palin issue is no longer abstract.



The next month will be quite telling.



So, to Gotti, et al - have the maturity and patriotism to take a hard look at your man, and drop the gleeful BS. This is about the furture of our country, not about winning or losing. This isn't a game.
 
[quote author="CM_Dude" date=1223438413]What we Republicans and Independents are offended by is the lack of seriousness exemplified by gleefully pro-Obama posts. Yes, Palin was a terrible VP choice, and my gag reflex went into overdrive every time she winked - but NONE of you really know squat about Obama. My vote will be based on who has the best shot at fixing the mess we are in. I am a lifelong Republican, but I did vote for Clinton in 1992 because he was the better candidate. Smug, gleeful children who adhere to a party line regardless of candidate qualifications do nothing to promote their party, they simply piss off those who take this election seriously.



Right now, my vote is 50.0000000001% Obama. It was 50.0000000001% McCain prior to the debates. We know McCain, we do not know Obama. I hope that Obama is the next Clinton, but we have less than a month left to see what shakes loose.



Biden said that global warming is caused by man. That is terrifying, as the science is still out. Anyone wants to argue with me on that one, bring it on, you will just demonstrate your ignorance of science for all to see. Certainly, industrialization may play into current trends, but the timeframe is far too short to produce anything but a speculative hypothesis. This is science that has been hijacked by politics. Biden was wrong. Hopefully Obama is more rational. Biden also said that he hoped that troubled homeowners should have the PRINCIPAL balances on their loans reduced to a level that they can afford. That is an absolute non-starter, and something that I hope is clarified by Obama. Keeping people in homes they could never afford is an unconscionable abuse of governmental power at the expense of those who have behaved responsibly.



Biden kicked Palin's ass. Palin's ignorance regarding the Constitutional authority for the office she seeks is extremely troubling. That and her refusal to answer questions at the only debate she will be in are reason enough to disqaulify her.



But Obama is not necessarily our savior. The sycophantic worship of some here is silly at best.



Providing a timeline for withdrawal from Iraq is lunacy - a political stunt designed to appease liberals who don't have a clue about military reality. His economic plan is straight-out class warfare. His solution for everything is to throw money at it. Hopefully, he will realize that cannot work and will prove intelligent and savvy enough to take the path Clinton took.



We don't know enough about Obama, but we do know enough about McCain. He just doesn't get it regarding too many issues, it seems. He also refuses to release his medical records (melanoma can be fatal), so the Palin issue is no longer abstract.



The next month will be quite telling.



So, to Gotti, et al - have the maturity and patriotism to take a hard look at your man, and drop the gleeful BS. This is about the furture of our country, not about winning or losing. This isn't a game.</blockquote>


I'm a registered republican too, and feel similar. Basically, at this point i'm supporting the man over the politics. I agree with the GOP's fiscal platforms, but they've lost their way.



Obama *is* a politicion, no matter how many of the hardcore dems are afraid to admit it. He caved on FISA, which is *huge*. He also was willing to vote through the bailout bill for purely political gains.



I will *not* vote for McCain no matter what though, as a message to the Republican party. The neocons' obssesion with turning america into a police state to fight terrorism sickens me. The fact that we have a broken economy and john McCain saying he will fix it is depressing. McCain is the wrong person for that job. Ron Paul would have gotten my vote. Maybe even Mit Romney.



But McCain? No thanks. If you think that the GOP is fundamentally the best party for the country, I'd encourage you to look long and hard at what kind of message we can send them by either voting for Obama or Barr or really anyone other then McCain.
 
[quote author="GOTTI" date=1223440799][quote author="CM_Dude" date=1223438413]We know McCain...</blockquote>


That is why my vote goes to Obama.</blockquote>


i think that response is exactly what CM_dude was referring to...
 
[quote author="CM_Dude" date=1223438413]What we Republicans and Independents are offended by is the lack of seriousness exemplified by gleefully pro-Obama posts. Yes, Palin was a terrible VP choice, and my gag reflex went into overdrive every time she winked - but NONE of you really know squat about Obama. My vote will be based on who has the best shot at fixing the mess we are in. I am a lifelong Republican, but I did vote for Clinton in 1992 because he was the better candidate. Smug, gleeful children who adhere to a party line regardless of candidate qualifications do nothing to promote their party, they simply piss off those who take this election seriously.



Right now, my vote is 50.0000000001% Obama. It was 50.0000000001% McCain prior to the debates. We know McCain, we do not know Obama. I hope that Obama is the next Clinton, but we have less than a month left to see what shakes loose.



Biden said that global warming is caused by man. That is terrifying, as the science is still out. Anyone wants to argue with me on that one, bring it on, you will just demonstrate your ignorance of science for all to see. Certainly, industrialization may play into current trends, but the timeframe is far too short to produce anything but a speculative hypothesis. This is science that has been hijacked by politics. Biden was wrong. Hopefully Obama is more rational. Biden also said that he hoped that troubled homeowners should have the PRINCIPAL balances on their loans reduced to a level that they can afford. That is an absolute non-starter, and something that I hope is clarified by Obama. Keeping people in homes they could never afford is an unconscionable abuse of governmental power at the expense of those who have behaved responsibly.



Biden kicked Palin's ass. Palin's ignorance regarding the Constitutional authority for the office she seeks is extremely troubling. That and her refusal to answer questions at the only debate she will be in are reason enough to disqaulify her.



But Obama is not necessarily our savior. The sycophantic worship of some here is silly at best.



Providing a timeline for withdrawal from Iraq is lunacy - a political stunt designed to appease liberals who don't have a clue about military reality. His economic plan is straight-out class warfare. His solution for everything is to throw money at it. Hopefully, he will realize that cannot work and will prove intelligent and savvy enough to take the path Clinton took.



We don't know enough about Obama, but we do know enough about McCain. He just doesn't get it regarding too many issues, it seems. He also refuses to release his medical records (melanoma can be fatal), so the Palin issue is no longer abstract.



The next month will be quite telling.



So, to Gotti, et al - have the maturity and patriotism to take a hard look at your man, and drop the gleeful BS. This is about the furture of our country, not about winning or losing. This isn't a game.</blockquote>






Why Asume I know nothing of Obama. I have read 2 books about the man (the audacity of Hope) and Obamanomics. been on his web site for countless hours reading the issues. and damn near everthing they sent out since the california Primary.(emails, videos) I saw the dem and the rep convention speaches of both VP and Pres Nominies.



I also went on wikipedia and read everthing about.

-Palin

-McCain

-Vladimir Putin

-Obama

-Biden

and Tre-sec paulison. in the last 2 weeks.



I also read about the keating 5.



I can only speak for my self in that I am informed.



I think anybody else should do the same. and then



"You must do what you think is right, Of Course"

-Obi-Wan



P.S. I as said it before I voted for HRC. in the california primary. she did carry California. But she is out so I did some research on Obama now I support him.
 
[quote author="skek" date=1223442939]Why do you guys bother? Clearly, Gotti, ventouxbob, socalmd, etc., aren't changing anyone's mind here. Just click the ignore button and discuss politics among the adults.</blockquote>






LOL this from a grown person with a southpark fetish
 
-Orange county is and has been for years hard core GOP. territory I would not expect many who live there to go for Obama anyhow.



-Just the fact that a straw poll has Obama leading in the IHB is Amazing as far as im concerned.
 
[quote author="CM_Dude" date=1223438413]What we Republicans and Independents are offended by is the lack of seriousness exemplified by gleefully pro-Obama posts. Yes, Palin was a terrible VP choice, and my gag reflex went into overdrive every time she winked - but NONE of you really know squat about Obama. My vote will be based on who has the best shot at fixing the mess we are in. I am a lifelong Republican, but I did vote for Clinton in 1992 because he was the better candidate. Smug, gleeful children who adhere to a party line regardless of candidate qualifications do nothing to promote their party, they simply piss off those who take this election seriously.



Right now, my vote is 50.0000000001% Obama. It was 50.0000000001% McCain prior to the debates. We know McCain, we do not know Obama. I hope that Obama is the next Clinton, but we have less than a month left to see what shakes loose.



Biden said that global warming is caused by man. That is terrifying, as the science is still out. Anyone wants to argue with me on that one, bring it on, you will just demonstrate your ignorance of science for all to see. Certainly, industrialization may play into current trends, but the timeframe is far too short to produce anything but a speculative hypothesis. This is science that has been hijacked by politics. Biden was wrong. Hopefully Obama is more rational. Biden also said that he hoped that troubled homeowners should have the PRINCIPAL balances on their loans reduced to a level that they can afford. That is an absolute non-starter, and something that I hope is clarified by Obama. Keeping people in homes they could never afford is an unconscionable abuse of governmental power at the expense of those who have behaved responsibly.



Biden kicked Palin's ass. Palin's ignorance regarding the Constitutional authority for the office she seeks is extremely troubling. That and her refusal to answer questions at the only debate she will be in are reason enough to disqaulify her.



But Obama is not necessarily our savior. The sycophantic worship of some here is silly at best.



Providing a timeline for withdrawal from Iraq is lunacy - a political stunt designed to appease liberals who don't have a clue about military reality. His economic plan is straight-out class warfare. His solution for everything is to throw money at it. Hopefully, he will realize that cannot work and will prove intelligent and savvy enough to take the path Clinton took.



We don't know enough about Obama, but we do know enough about McCain. He just doesn't get it regarding too many issues, it seems. He also refuses to release his medical records (melanoma can be fatal), so the Palin issue is no longer abstract.



The next month will be quite telling.



So, to Gotti, et al - have the maturity and patriotism to take a hard look at your man, and drop the gleeful BS. This is about the furture of our country, not about winning or losing. This isn't a game.</blockquote>






It's unwise for you to assume that we Obama supporters know nothing about our candidate. Maybe you don't know much about him so you assume no one else does either.
 
[quote author="ventouxbob" date=1223443396]-Orange county is and has been for years hard core GOP. territory I would not expect many who live there to go for Obama anyhow.



-Just the fact that a straw poll has Obama leading in the IHB is Amazing as far as im concerned.</blockquote>






8 out of 10 ER docs at my hospital support Obama
 
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