Augusta at Columbus Square
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:-\ ???
What does it matter if I'm poisoned, drowned, or shot? I'm still dead. And no matter how it's explained, computed, or advertised, it's still $8,000 a year in taxes ABOVE the base property tax rate. And that's still outrageous.
The only "problem" with advertising it the way they did is that I have to compute the additional yearly taxes on my own, based on the percentage they came up with...even if that's not how the taxes are determined. They probably advertise it that way because they don't want to stick $8,000 per year on there.
You're still not getting it. $8k is not outrageous for a 3k sqft home. Show me the mello roos for another 3k sqft home. At least you're not buying the 4k sqft Gables model. If you want to pay less mello roos then buy a smaller home or an older home. Homes built in the 90's have a mello roos about half that. Like I said, you need to compare apples to apples.
i'm getting it....and it's outrageous. laguna altura is less, it's about what....6k? for toscana? which is 3000+? come on....
To avoid MR (in 90's homes or brand new homes) just buy in Laguna Niguel. I bought a 3100 sq.ft. home and have $0 MR.
LA also adds $2k per year in HOA. And what are you getting for the $6k in MR? They're building an access way to Lake Forest Dr, that's it? Why would you buy in LA to commute to Lake Forest, or is it really to help people in Lake Forest commute to Irvine? At least in CS you're getting tons of infrastructure, you will be able to walk to the new elementary school, walk to the future middle school, walk to the future high school, walk to 100+ acres of park space, walk to the new shopping center (next to Kensington), walk to the District, etc. At LA you can walk onto the toll road or Lake Forest Dr, all for $6k.
that is the point im trying to make. Stonegate is $3,600 per year in MR, but if it was 8,000, the price of the home would be lower. at the end of the day you have to compare the total monthly payment to be able to compare apples to apples and then adjust for the location premium. to compare one developments MR of 8,000 with another for 6K or 3,6000 is somewhat irrelevant.
I wasn't trying to say LA is a good deal, but as far as the HOA....don't gated parks have to be maintained by the HOA while public parks do not? Not even sure about the streets themselves.
the walkable schools is a good thing, but get real about walking to the District from Augusta.
Stonegate has many of the things you're describing and how much is Maricopa's MR?
There's a new school that's finishing up construction which will serve this community.
http://www.tustin.k12.ca.us/HTML/schooldirectory/school-sites/01-heritage/heritage.htm
http://www.tustin.k12.ca.us/HTML/schooldirectory/school-sites/01-heritage/heritage.htm
I liked Plan 1, I thought it was perfectly functional for my needs, the backyard space was adequate in comparison to what else is out there, I think there is plenty of space back there to do everything I'd want to do with a backyard.
I was surprised how much I also liked Plan 3. There are a few awkward parts of the plan though. But I agree, I think the huge island/breakfast bar is a better informal solution as compared to having a second table/bench/chairs like in Plan 1. I really liked the downstairs, I find no problems with it. The upstairs, however, was awkward in the way they set up the secondary bedrooms/bathroom(s). The exterior space was as large or a tad bit larger than the Plan 1. But like the Plan 1 model, the Plan 3 model's use of the rear exterior space wasn't very good. I could think of a few ways that would have made them more impressive and accentuate the space you have much, much better.
After looking at the site plan with the sales associate (they were all nice and helpful, actually), I discovered that there are two Plan 3's that will get a driveway in the rear(!) since they are at the end of a motorcourt. That would address my main complaint about this development as a whole, the lack of driveway. I bet those lots will go for a hefty premium already, and one is the model. The other one is in Phase 3.
The literature said that you will only be a member of the master HOA, which will be $109 at buildout. The paragraph was a little unclear though, at first I thought you'd be hit with two HOAs. If it is indeed only the master HOA, that's great and right in line with Stonegate.
Now we get to the Mello Roos, which are just downright embarrassing. I thought test said that they would be less than CG? By my calculations, since plan 3 is $770k base, you'd get hit with $8085 of MR @ 1.05%...effective was 2.1%, with 1.05% of that being base property tax. That's absolutely obscene, way more than even Laguna Altura. Unacceptable. Test, please correct me if my math is wrong because I really wanted to like these.
Long story short- for my needs, I would be interested in a Plan 1 if the effective tax rate was more like 1.4-1.6%, comparable to Stonegate.
I was surprised how much I also liked Plan 3. There are a few awkward parts of the plan though. But I agree, I think the huge island/breakfast bar is a better informal solution as compared to having a second table/bench/chairs like in Plan 1. I really liked the downstairs, I find no problems with it. The upstairs, however, was awkward in the way they set up the secondary bedrooms/bathroom(s). The exterior space was as large or a tad bit larger than the Plan 1. But like the Plan 1 model, the Plan 3 model's use of the rear exterior space wasn't very good. I could think of a few ways that would have made them more impressive and accentuate the space you have much, much better.
After looking at the site plan with the sales associate (they were all nice and helpful, actually), I discovered that there are two Plan 3's that will get a driveway in the rear(!) since they are at the end of a motorcourt. That would address my main complaint about this development as a whole, the lack of driveway. I bet those lots will go for a hefty premium already, and one is the model. The other one is in Phase 3.
The literature said that you will only be a member of the master HOA, which will be $109 at buildout. The paragraph was a little unclear though, at first I thought you'd be hit with two HOAs. If it is indeed only the master HOA, that's great and right in line with Stonegate.
Now we get to the Mello Roos, which are just downright embarrassing. I thought test said that they would be less than CG? By my calculations, since plan 3 is $770k base, you'd get hit with $8085 of MR @ 1.05%...effective was 2.1%, with 1.05% of that being base property tax. That's absolutely obscene, way more than even Laguna Altura. Unacceptable. Test, please correct me if my math is wrong because I really wanted to like these.
Long story short- for my needs, I would be interested in a Plan 1 if the effective tax rate was more like 1.4-1.6%, comparable to Stonegate.
I actually thought the plan 2 had the best feel to it. There was a nice separation from the public part of the house and the private part. The pseudo ranch style was somewhat unique in new construction that I've seen around here, with only the kid's rooms and a loft upstairs. My wife even really liked the cave-like feel of the master, since we like it really dark to sleep. The only deal breaker for me was the total lack of any yard, as the 2's had way less than the other models.
I actually thought the 3 had the worst design of the lot. I thought the island on one of the San Marino homes was a little over-sized, but the island here is simply ludicrous. It goes so far beyond over-sized we couldn't help but sit there and laugh at it for a while. It takes up half the great room. Also, the layout of the kid's rooms upstairs is terrible. The little bathroom that 2 rooms share is way to small to share, and if you go with the other layout option you get 3 kids sharing a single bathroom. Totally unmanageable.
I actually thought the 3 had the worst design of the lot. I thought the island on one of the San Marino homes was a little over-sized, but the island here is simply ludicrous. It goes so far beyond over-sized we couldn't help but sit there and laugh at it for a while. It takes up half the great room. Also, the layout of the kid's rooms upstairs is terrible. The little bathroom that 2 rooms share is way to small to share, and if you go with the other layout option you get 3 kids sharing a single bathroom. Totally unmanageable.
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
Holy insanely HIGH Mello Roos batman, YIKES!qwerty said:
:-\ ???shadax,
Most people don't understand mello roos, and the way it's advertised doesn't help. Mello roos is based on square footage and only square footage. Terms like effective rate and percentage of sales price is totally meaningless and misleading. So you need to compare apples to apples by looking at square footage vs square footage, not sales price or tax rate.
Now, CS is significantly less the CG.
I looked into the details of the actual taxes being paid and that's only one of the special assessments, they each have different ones. CS for example pays for the new school while CG doesn't, since only CS residents get to attend.
Most people don't understand mello roos, and the way it's advertised doesn't help. Mello roos is based on square footage and only square footage. Terms like effective rate and percentage of sales price is totally meaningless and misleading. So you need to compare apples to apples by looking at square footage vs square footage, not sales price or tax rate.
Now, CS is significantly less the CG.
I looked into the details of the actual taxes being paid and that's only one of the special assessments, they each have different ones. CS for example pays for the new school while CG doesn't, since only CS residents get to attend.
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
Exactly, Mello Roos is a set dollar amount that never changes. The percentage depends upon what the ultimate sales price is. I'd be curious to know how long those Mello Roos bonds are at VOC....are they 20, 25, 30, or 35 years?bones said:
test said:shadax,
Most people don't understand mello roos, and the way it's advertised doesn't help. Mello roos is based on square footage and only square footage. Terms like effective rate and percentage of sales price is totally meaningless and misleading. So you need to compare apples to apples by looking at square footage vs square footage, not sales price or tax rate.
Now, CS is significantly less the CG.
I looked into the details of the actual taxes being paid and that's only one of the special assessments, they each have different ones. CS for example pays for the new school while CG doesn't, since only CS residents get to attend.
What does it matter if I'm poisoned, drowned, or shot? I'm still dead. And no matter how it's explained, computed, or advertised, it's still $8,000 a year in taxes ABOVE the base property tax rate. And that's still outrageous.
The only "problem" with advertising it the way they did is that I have to compute the additional yearly taxes on my own, based on the percentage they came up with...even if that's not how the taxes are determined. They probably advertise it that way because they don't want to stick $8,000 per year on there.
shadax said:test said:shadax,
Most people don't understand mello roos, and the way it's advertised doesn't help. Mello roos is based on square footage and only square footage. Terms like effective rate and percentage of sales price is totally meaningless and misleading. So you need to compare apples to apples by looking at square footage vs square footage, not sales price or tax rate.
Now, CS is significantly less the CG.
I looked into the details of the actual taxes being paid and that's only one of the special assessments, they each have different ones. CS for example pays for the new school while CG doesn't, since only CS residents get to attend.
What does it matter if I'm poisoned, drowned, or shot? I'm still dead. And no matter how it's explained, computed, or advertised, it's still $8,000 a year in taxes ABOVE the base property tax rate. And that's still outrageous.
The only "problem" with advertising it the way they did is that I have to compute the additional yearly taxes on my own, based on the percentage they came up with...even if that's not how the taxes are determined. They probably advertise it that way because they don't want to stick $8,000 per year on there.
You're still not getting it. $8k is not outrageous for a 3k sqft home. Show me the mello roos for another 3k sqft home. At least you're not buying the 4k sqft Gables model. If you want to pay less mello roos then buy a smaller home or an older home. Homes built in the 90's have a mello roos about half that. Like I said, you need to compare apples to apples.
test said:shadax said:test said:shadax,
Most people don't understand mello roos, and the way it's advertised doesn't help. Mello roos is based on square footage and only square footage. Terms like effective rate and percentage of sales price is totally meaningless and misleading. So you need to compare apples to apples by looking at square footage vs square footage, not sales price or tax rate.
Now, CS is significantly less the CG.
I looked into the details of the actual taxes being paid and that's only one of the special assessments, they each have different ones. CS for example pays for the new school while CG doesn't, since only CS residents get to attend.
What does it matter if I'm poisoned, drowned, or shot? I'm still dead. And no matter how it's explained, computed, or advertised, it's still $8,000 a year in taxes ABOVE the base property tax rate. And that's still outrageous.
The only "problem" with advertising it the way they did is that I have to compute the additional yearly taxes on my own, based on the percentage they came up with...even if that's not how the taxes are determined. They probably advertise it that way because they don't want to stick $8,000 per year on there.
You're still not getting it. $8k is not outrageous for a 3k sqft home. Show me the mello roos for another 3k sqft home. At least you're not buying the 4k sqft Gables model. If you want to pay less mello roos then buy a smaller home or an older home. Homes built in the 90's have a mello roos about half that. Like I said, you need to compare apples to apples.
i'm getting it....and it's outrageous. laguna altura is less, it's about what....6k? for toscana? which is 3000+? come on....
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
Homes in the 90s have a Mello Roos that's 1/4 or 1/5 that these guys are trying to charge. $7k-$8k in Mello Roos for the pleasure of living on some marine base with toxic soil? No thanks...PASS!test said:shadax said:test said:shadax,
Most people don't understand mello roos, and the way it's advertised doesn't help. Mello roos is based on square footage and only square footage. Terms like effective rate and percentage of sales price is totally meaningless and misleading. So you need to compare apples to apples by looking at square footage vs square footage, not sales price or tax rate.
Now, CS is significantly less the CG.
I looked into the details of the actual taxes being paid and that's only one of the special assessments, they each have different ones. CS for example pays for the new school while CG doesn't, since only CS residents get to attend.
What does it matter if I'm poisoned, drowned, or shot? I'm still dead. And no matter how it's explained, computed, or advertised, it's still $8,000 a year in taxes ABOVE the base property tax rate. And that's still outrageous.
The only "problem" with advertising it the way they did is that I have to compute the additional yearly taxes on my own, based on the percentage they came up with...even if that's not how the taxes are determined. They probably advertise it that way because they don't want to stick $8,000 per year on there.
You're still not getting it. $8k is not outrageous for a 3k sqft home. Show me the mello roos for another 3k sqft home. At least you're not buying the 4k sqft Gables model. If you want to pay less mello roos then buy a smaller home or an older home. Homes built in the 90's have a mello roos about half that. Like I said, you need to compare apples to apples.
davenlei
New member
test said:shadax said:test said:shadax,
Most people don't understand mello roos, and the way it's advertised doesn't help. Mello roos is based on square footage and only square footage. Terms like effective rate and percentage of sales price is totally meaningless and misleading. So you need to compare apples to apples by looking at square footage vs square footage, not sales price or tax rate.
Now, CS is significantly less the CG.
I looked into the details of the actual taxes being paid and that's only one of the special assessments, they each have different ones. CS for example pays for the new school while CG doesn't, since only CS residents get to attend.
What does it matter if I'm poisoned, drowned, or shot? I'm still dead. And no matter how it's explained, computed, or advertised, it's still $8,000 a year in taxes ABOVE the base property tax rate. And that's still outrageous.
The only "problem" with advertising it the way they did is that I have to compute the additional yearly taxes on my own, based on the percentage they came up with...even if that's not how the taxes are determined. They probably advertise it that way because they don't want to stick $8,000 per year on there.
You're still not getting it. $8k is not outrageous for a 3k sqft home. Show me the mello roos for another 3k sqft home. At least you're not buying the 4k sqft Gables model. If you want to pay less mello roos then buy a smaller home or an older home. Homes built in the 90's have a mello roos about half that. Like I said, you need to compare apples to apples.
To avoid MR (in 90's homes or brand new homes) just buy in Laguna Niguel. I bought a 3100 sq.ft. home and have $0 MR.
qwerty
Well-known member
i could be wrong but home prices are take into account whether or not the area homes have MR. if you bought a home in Laguna Niguel, if there was no MR, that means that the home price was just that much higher. these things are priced at what can be financed which is the total combo of principal/interest/insurance/taxes/MR/HOA.
So when people get concerned about the MR, all that means is that the home price has to be that much lower so someone can afford it. so while i understand the visual/mental impact of paying 8K in MR its just one component of the cost. If these augusta homes had no mello roos, they would be priced 150-200K higher. This is the same with the new homes in Stonegate, Portola Springs, Laguna altura, if there was no MR there, i can guarantee you TIC would jack up the price 100-200K more, whatever the MR converts to in terms of principal equivalent.
So when people get concerned about the MR, all that means is that the home price has to be that much lower so someone can afford it. so while i understand the visual/mental impact of paying 8K in MR its just one component of the cost. If these augusta homes had no mello roos, they would be priced 150-200K higher. This is the same with the new homes in Stonegate, Portola Springs, Laguna altura, if there was no MR there, i can guarantee you TIC would jack up the price 100-200K more, whatever the MR converts to in terms of principal equivalent.
shadax said:
LA also adds $2k per year in HOA. And what are you getting for the $6k in MR? They're building an access way to Lake Forest Dr, that's it? Why would you buy in LA to commute to Lake Forest, or is it really to help people in Lake Forest commute to Irvine? At least in CS you're getting tons of infrastructure, you will be able to walk to the new elementary school, walk to the future middle school, walk to the future high school, walk to 100+ acres of park space, walk to the new shopping center (next to Kensington), walk to the District, etc. At LA you can walk onto the toll road or Lake Forest Dr, all for $6k.
qwerty
Well-known member
shadax said:
that is the point im trying to make. Stonegate is $3,600 per year in MR, but if it was 8,000, the price of the home would be lower. at the end of the day you have to compare the total monthly payment to be able to compare apples to apples and then adjust for the location premium. to compare one developments MR of 8,000 with another for 6K or 3,6000 is somewhat irrelevant.
test said:
I wasn't trying to say LA is a good deal, but as far as the HOA....don't gated parks have to be maintained by the HOA while public parks do not? Not even sure about the streets themselves.
the walkable schools is a good thing, but get real about walking to the District from Augusta.
Stonegate has many of the things you're describing and how much is Maricopa's MR?