Are we ever going to afford a house in OC?

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Yes, yes we are going to be able to afford a home. If history tells us anything, and we are breaking historical records in the worst way, then it will happen sooner than later. Maybe even breaking records for historical affordability.





The Floral Park area of Santa Ana is amazing. You can go by the area in the day, and see housewives walking their rats, er dogs, and running into neighbors to stop to chat. It really is if they have their own little world there. If you have any knowledge of architecture, then you know these homes are some of the best built in OC, ever. This was the area in the past, that had people living there, that now have streets named after them. If you have any faith in <a href="http://www.ocmetro.com/NEW_SITE/metro091406/cover_story.php">Michael Harrah, and his Bren Irvine like vision of Santa Ana</a>, then you will know, this is the area to buy in as a long term investment. Still overpriced IMO, but deals will be had here. BK is right, OC and suburbia in general, moves outward, but as it truly grows, people return inward. If I had to choose from Woodbridge or Floral Park, I would choose Floral Park. I can fight a gang member and I might win, I can fight toxic water, but I know I will not win.





As for Santa Ana as a whole for crime... this comes with funding and the recession we are in. Funding has been cut on the gang task force IIRC. This combined with the recession will lead to a higher crime rate. Back in the early/mid-90s, the crime rates were through the roof. So, they created the gang task force, and they cleaned up the mess, and crime rates dropper dramatically. Now as the gangsters that were arrested then, are getting out of the pen, and the task force doesn't have the sources to fight it. Combine this with a higher crime rate of a recession, and the area will turn out like crap.


<em>


Through the years, I have seen many beautiful neighborhoods in Santa Ana getting worse. I clearly remember one street behind Mater Dei High, it was gorgeous with well-manicured lawns. You can tell the pride of homeownerships. Now, this same street looks very down trodden.





</em>Dude, how long has it been since you were at Mater Dei? This area has been crap for all I can remember. I mean, there have been bars protecting Mater Dei for 20 plus years.





All I know is, I have been waiting for a downtown OC all my life, and Michael Harrah could make that happen. I hope he does, because I have seen pics of when downtown Santa Ana was a bustling downtown with trolleys and all.
 
I was over near the Stadium Lofts in Anaheim recently on a weekend night at El Toritio Grill, and the area was eerily empty. Guess it's not ready to be downtown OC yet...
 
House of Cards:

That's pretty laughable. I will continue to care about zip codes, and will never move to Santa Ana. And if you feel happy and secure with living in a crappy neighborhood, more power to you.

Everybody else:

I think another downside to Floral Park is that many homes were built before 1960s. Which means lead paint, asbestos in ducts insulation, termites, furnaces situated and surprise locations throughout the house (like your bedroom, enjoy the noise and the smell) and who knows what else. I'd think it would make most sense to buy just for the lot and build a new home there, if you are really set on buying there. This is something many people do in Nellie Gail Ranch neighborhood in Laguna Niguel. There are several pretty cool modern design homes there now. But again, the surrounding area for Nellie Gail Ranch is so much nicer than for Floral Park.

Graphrix: why is water in Woodbury toxic? Is it b/c of the toxic waste at former El Toro base site? That's not that close anyway.
 
Blackacre,

You misunderstood my comment. You were talking about people living in nice areas that are part of Santa Ana who vaguely referred to the area they lived in for what you said was a stigma. What I find sad is that anyone would think less of themselves (hence the word stigma) for where they live.
 
<em>Graphrix: why is water in Woodbury toxic? Is it b/c of the toxic waste at former El Toro base site? That's not that close anyway.





</em>It is Wood<strong>bridge</strong>, not Woodbury. <a href="http://www.tceblog.com/posts/1145508551.shtml">Click here to find out about the toxic plume</a>. Woodbury just feels like a rat maze.





And to each their own, everyone likes something different. Who cares if they don't like what you, or I, or anyone likes. Why get all worked up about it?
 
Graphrix,



It was back in the early 80's, the street right next to the football/track field. It was very nice. And yes, the general area is crappy. But for some reason, this street had very nice homes. But not now though.
 
<p> </p>

<p>I love history and frequent bookstores often to see the historic books that feature old postcards of Orange County and other places around LA. I grew up in the mist of gang turfs and I knew gangs more than everyone else. High percentages of my high school graduates went to 4 year prisons than colleges. </p>

<p>Gangs behave like dogs. The instant to mark territory is just a part of their DNA. When many dogs share the same neighborhood the need to pee and mark that "private" tree is an endless cycle and the determination to hold the bladder to pee on several dozen spots gave meaning of their existence. When rival gang members coexist in the same neighborhood the need to mark their territory by graffiti and covering over rival gangs' marks and ultimately barking and each other and eventually chew each other's head off. </p>

<p>Gang members and their parents can not afford to live in Floral Park. So there is no point to mark the territory that they don’t belong to. The urge to pee is not there when the trees have no prior pee stain. Gangs like to show off by tagging the most difficult places as a trophy to piss off rival gangs. They risk and lost their lives hanging over freeway overpasses to tag freeway signs. The whole point is to seek the most high profile and traffic locations to commit their act. Floral Park is too quiet and buried.</p>

<p>Many nice neighborhoods are just a stone throw distance from their bad neighbors. The use of street pattern like heavy Arterial Streets created hardship to cross from one neighborhood to another. The deliberate absence of signal lights is a technique employed. Freeway overpass, railroad track, bridge, drainage cannel or a park can become landmark boundaries to delineate good neighborhoods from bad neighborhoods. </p>

<p>I applaud the experienced members on IHB with their trained eyes and RE experience for sharing their thoughts and analysis. The only way to see good communities is how it can weather the test of time aesthetically by good planning and how generations of families who feel proud of their homes and raise kids and grand kids under the same roof. Most homes in Floral Park rarely come up on the market and that is a testament of heirloom architecture other known as grandma's house.</p>
 
<p>That's funny that you mentioned 'grandma'. My wife often say, "I don't know if I want to buy older homes for fear the ghost of grandma might come out of the closet." Hahaha!</p>
 
<p>Yeah, she says she feels creepy with the older homes. If you really think about it. Some of these older homes have alot of family history. Both bad and good. </p>

<p>We once took a tour of an older home. And the lady was more than happy to not only talk about the house but her family. How her son use to sleep in that room and now have married. And her daughter who use that room when "she was with us."......"Oh and this room is for my elder mom." She had that tone of sadness as she describe her once lively family. Kind of make you feel like not buying. </p>
 
<p>Emotional attachment is a sign of how much they loved their homes. You do not find that kind of conversation with flippers. People who feel very proud of their homes love to tell stories so their legacy will pass on to your family and the history would pass on to the next family you will be selling to.</p>

<p>Diane Keaton and her family and the family before them and my family are all intertwined under the same roof. That will only bring richness and chronology to the lagacy of a home. </p>

<p>New homes built today will less of these kind of legacy. Most will have stories of family defaulting on a loan, flippers made a lot of money, knife catchers crying for making a bad decision and the homes were merely a stepping stone to a bigger house.</p>
 
<p>Wow, Diane Keaton's home? Hey, isn't she the one that was into that metaphysical UFO stuff? Although, I like history. But when it comes to someone else's family history. I hope they had good and not bad ones b/c I would hate to have bad karma around the house. </p>

<p>Just like when a family lost their home to foreclosure, I am sure there have been many restless nights worrying by the occupants. Maybe family members arguing and fighting due to the stress of losing the home. That type of history is not a good thing, I suppose.</p>
 
Buying a foreclosed home to live in is bad feng shui for Asians. Asians rarely buy a home with financial distress because thet are afraid that they will inherit bad karma.
 
<em>Uh oh....sounds like the OC might have a tough time finding buyers then.... !





</em>Why do you think all the foreclosures from 92-94, only got worse in 95 and 96? I wonder if there is a way to cure the bad feng shui?





Don't worry though, there are a few homes for sale that are not "distressed". Not quite the inventory to choose from in a down market, but the rich ones know where the non-distressed are.
 
<p>As to gangs and good and bad neighborhoods--</p>

<p>I read that when black people were forced to live in ghettos, that meant the successful and realitively well off were more or less forced to live cheek by jowl with the low lifes and losers. This was not pleasant for the successful, but it gave an example and a tone to the neighborhoods and suppressed the some of the more obnoxious activities. When the successful were able to move away from the losers, that was when the neighborhoods totally fell apart. Then there were no examples of success around any more to model oneself on.</p>

<p>I don't know that there is a solution. Can't force people to live in gang infested areas in hopes of diluting the gangs. But the gangs are in some sense substitute families, along With all their bad aspects.</p>
 
I am Asian, and if the house price right, I don't care if it REO....now, if someone died in the house...then it is a different story. Got to draw the line somewhere. LOL.



I don't think it is bad feng shui that these homeowners are in distressed. I think it is more of bad planning, some are pure greed and some are trick into these teaser interest only deal. Bad feng shui is treatable...
 
Bad floor plan and location both have remedies but not a total cure. Bad address is doomed and there is no fix. I may start a PO box address in Irvine for bloggers to send me plans and pictures to review regarding their potential purchase. Why chance it when one just does not know enough about products, locations, solar heat gain and orientation, feng shui, addresses, interactiion with neighbors and builders' reputation now and 20 years ago. What fee should I charge for this type of analysis and report?
 
Singapore's public housing policy forces ethnic integration. Rather than any dominant culture, you have a "neutral" British/English lingua franca with significant trans-cultural diffusion among its Chinese, Malay, and Indian population. One interesting result of cultural diffusion is that you see traditional Chinese-only gangs start to accept Malays and Indians.





However, Singapore is a small island state and what works for them, won't necessarily work on larger scale. i.e. Malaysia's Bumiputra affirmative action policies worked to create a Malay middle class, which contributed greatly to the nation's stability. But the same probably wouldn't work in Indonesia, the ethnic % mix and situation is just too different.





If I were to do "social engineering" (a la Sim City), I'd build a decent light rail network across OC that ran 24/7, and mid-rise housing along its route with underground parking. The ground floor will be used for some parking + retail space that caters to the community. Behind the housing block will be green belts. The community will be designed for walk-ability, but also handicapped friendly with elevators.





Subsidized housing units will be made avail in the same housing blocks that everyone else lives. There will be no ghettos, the person who works at Walmart for $11/hr will live in the same community as you (but in smaller, less fancy, and more "basic" housing flats). The only requirement will be that the person (or his/her spouse) must actually be employed in the city or general area to qualify. The children of "poorer" families will attend the same public schools as you and I from the middle and middle-upper class. I'd probably also throw in some public assistance to home school programs, but that's for another discussion.





However, at the same time, I would not restrict the development of some wealthy suburban communities and private schools. This will be done within reason and not encourage unlimited suburban sprawl. The idea is that if someone is very successful (wealthy) and want to live in a big, expensive SFR and send their kids to a private school, that's fine by me, as long as he/she pays taxes like everyone else to support public education. Both socialism and capitalism are flawed systems when taken to the extreme, so a "mixed" system where the poor is not forced to live in ghettos, and the rich is allowed to be rich, is probably better.
 
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