2010 Irvine New Home Collection

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
[quote author="ajw522"]
Now, I don't know if I can say they are REALLY narrow. They are narrow - but IMO, they provide ample room to drive in and out of, and to back out of. They are not that much smaller than normal streets, and I have seen the models at least 5 times. I'm not saying I would like to live on a motorcourt -- I don't, I'd rather have my home facing the street -- but, I think there is more than enough room to drive in and out on.[/quote]

Alex...I'm sorry I've dumped all over your dream house. I only say these things because once someone saved me from making a really bad choice and spending way too much money for an inferior housing product. At the time I too was caught up in all the hoopla of the bubble. Maybe I'm just trying to pay it forward.

Thinking about 2010 collection, I can really see where somebody could feel good about paying roughly $600k for Coronado. Even though its not my dream layout, its a competitive price to similar sized and arranged products on the resale market. I can also see someone paying $800-$850k for Sonoma. That also seems fairly competitive to similar homes on the market. Montecito just seems too high given that layout. I'd hate to see anybody pay that kind of coin for a house, and god forbid they get a neighbor who wants to work on his Harley in the driveway? Or who has guests that inconsiderately park in the motorcourt. Yeah, you can tell them to move --- but that makes for an uncomfortable neighborhood dynamic. It might be an acceptable dynamic at a lower price point, but Montecito is big $$'s --- who wants to put up with that BS for that much money?

Regardless, I wish you well in your seach. As long as you like it and are happy with the price paid, that's all that counts.
 
[quote author="ajw522"]

I know those questions were to IHO, but I would like to comment -- Sonoma is a better (not much better) choice than Montecito, IF you have the extra money to spend. For example, a 2308 sq/ft Montecito plan 2 was starting at $760K, while a 2463 sq/ft Sonoma Plan 2 was going for around $800K. They are comparable in floorplans, same number of rooms, both have rooms downstairs, etc. Sonoma also seems to offer more lots with larger lot sizes. Granted, many of the larger lots are close to Sand Canyon Ave, but they are still on average larger then Montecito. I believe the prices are still too high. I love the floorplan for the plan 2 at Sonoma and Montecito, and would buy the Sonoma 2 if it was closer to $750K. Even that is too high, but right now, that is pretty reasonable for Irvine. When it comes down to it, it all depends on if you like the Montecito models and can live with a motorcourt (IMO, they aren't that bad). If you have extra money to spend, go for Sonoma. Otherwise, I think Montecito would be fine.

Now, in regards to Lennar's Villa Rosa, I think they are priced WAY too high. I mean, their plan 1's start at around $1 million. They need to bring their price down or else they won't be able to sell anything. Poor Lennar though, they have been here forever![/quote]

Good post. I think we were typing essentially the same thing at the same time. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->
 
I completely agree with you CK -- Montecito is still priced too high, given the layout being on a motorcourt. The original prices set by TIC (from the high 6's starting) would've been better. I agree. Thanks for the post.
 
[quote author="ck"]
[quote author="ajw522"]

I know those questions were to IHO, but I would like to comment -- Sonoma is a better (not much better) choice than Montecito, IF you have the extra money to spend. For example, a 2308 sq/ft Montecito plan 2 was starting at $760K, while a 2463 sq/ft Sonoma Plan 2 was going for around $800K. They are comparable in floorplans, same number of rooms, both have rooms downstairs, etc. Sonoma also seems to offer more lots with larger lot sizes. Granted, many of the larger lots are close to Sand Canyon Ave, but they are still on average larger then Montecito. I believe the prices are still too high. I love the floorplan for the plan 2 at Sonoma and Montecito, and would buy the Sonoma 2 if it was closer to $750K. Even that is too high, but right now, that is pretty reasonable for Irvine. When it comes down to it, it all depends on if you like the Montecito models and can live with a motorcourt (IMO, they aren't that bad). If you have extra money to spend, go for Sonoma. Otherwise, I think Montecito would be fine.

Now, in regards to Lennar's Villa Rosa, I think they are priced WAY too high. I mean, their plan 1's start at around $1 million. They need to bring their price down or else they won't be able to sell anything. Poor Lennar though, they have been here forever![/quote]

Good post. I think we were typing essentially the same thing at the same time. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->[/quote]

;D
 
[quote author="graphrix"]
[quote author="roundcorners"]no the obscene thing is that you pay $900k to live right next to affordable housing... I'm going to be a dick today, just not feeling good I guess, and bring that up to the sales people...

hey that is convenient, at least your drug dealer will live close by... ;D[/quote]

Drug dealers make a lot of money. They don't need to live in affordable housing. If you recall, IR2 and I posted on some grow houses that got busted. All of which were in neighborhoods you would least expect it. You're in luck, Irvine homes are too clusterfawked together so it makes for a bad location for grow house or a dealer. They like their privacy; something that is unheard of in Irvine.

And this just helps confirm the snobbery of Irvine that Grace mentions with this post. I also thought someone such as yourself would have more compassion for his fellow man and woman. [/quote]

I have to apologize to everybody for my comments earlier... well look at that... I'm the one with the snark remarks and Graph is the sensible one here...

I guess a little bug called envy landed on my shoulders this morning at Montecito, I get like this whenever I see a bunch of FCB whip out huge amounts of $$. It's a struggle I have all my life; I can totally understand how BK feels about the pretentiousness in some Asian residences; I have certainly dealt with a lot of it growing up.

Just like High School, everyone knows that a 17 year old can not afford a BMW working at the Dairy Queen, but that doesn't stop the rest of us from getting a little jealous. Just brought up some junk today, as I see some peers buying their homes. We all know that some peers can't buy the large SFR that they live in on their salaries alone; must be nice to have FCB parents.

All I could say to my son as I we walked away was, maybe someday... I know not all of today's buyers are pretentious; and I'm sure a lot of the 2nd gens are grateful. An older couple I was talking to also have been waiting and saving for years. They are moving from Corona, and they identified with my struggles to purchase the first home. The wife is Chinese but I found it refreshing that the husband is African-American. I'm actually really happy for them, they are so happy to have gotten chosen.

Whenever the rain comes in the middle of the night; I am always grateful even for our little apartment. For I know things could be a WHOLE lot worse, just think of the people in Haiti. I'm not always perfect, but I'm always willing to admit that...
 
[quote author="roundcorners"]for those who own in Woodbury, what is your base tax rate? I always thought it would be at least, 1.22%... but the La Casella price sheet states.. 1.04%... plus 0.72% mello-roos is somewhere around 1.76%... wow, this changes some calculations... I thought you can't get away under 2% total... maybe that is Portola..![/quote]

I know, for Montecito, the estimated taxes (all combined) are 1.7%.
 
People must not be seeing the parts where I say these are overpriced... because they are.

When the flooplans first went up, I was targeting Sonoma and Carmel... I favored Sonoma because I think that area of Woodbury is better than the no pocket park Carmel next to problematic street parking Montecito, but the Carmel plans were bigger and had at least storage area in the garage.

Once they started releasing pricing, I was in the "No way... these suckers are overpriced" category... and was thinking that not only were they overpriced, they were probably crappy designs. But I was curious where all that square footage was going because I lived in a 2400 5/3 house that had all the living areas and the rooms were of decent size so I couldn't imagine where all that space would be going in a 4/3 house with no separate dining or living rooms.

They are not the most space efficient plans, but the layouts were surpisingly well thought out. As we know, I'm a big fan of the upstairs laundry (I help with much of the laundry chores) and all 3 Sonoma plans addressed not only that but the lack of storage space outside of the rooms.

The downstairs, although lacking a separate dining and living area is very conducive to indoor entertaining... and opening up to the Cali room in Plans 1 and 3, gives it almost a nice indoor/outdoor atmosphere. Plan 3's Cali room is off the kitchen dining area so there is a bit more separation there but they do make up for it by having an upstairs family area (the loft).

The ceilings are high and it doesn't feel as cramped as CalPac designs I've seen in the same range and the designs feel higher end.

But... regardess of the spacious feel, I still feel I need more from a home considering I'm going to sacrifice lot size and it's not like Woodbury is the most wide open area.

Regarding future values, I know graph likes to be pessimistic but I think there is a difference here buying on a downward slope. I think many know that prices will probably go down or remain flat but they are not buying for quick flips like back in the heyday... and I think most buyers on the list are going to be primare residents. On top of that, many of these buyers are high cash and so the stress of having to make mortgage payments won't be a factor for many of these people.

In addition, like BK said... it's going to be a lot harder to devalue an entire neighborhood of houses, especially when many of them are high cash down purchases because more than a few homes are going to have to take haircuts and if you are in a zero loan or low loan situation, you just wait it out.

I actually went out of my way to speak to people who looked like they bought and one family had an interesting story. They were one of the first on the list and I asked them why they bought in Irvine because they both worked quite a ways from here. Guess what the answer was? Schools. Graph and BK can "pshaw" all they want... but the reality is that is what many people think. Even BK lived in Irvine for 19 years... so why did he choose to live here in the first place?

That alone keeps prices high. And... the second part of the story was even funnier because I pegged this person as an FCB but they commented on how all these other people who reserved their homes were either full cash or majority cash payments. He couldn't understand where these people get all this cash and don't believe in paying interest on mortgages. You're not going to see that type of purchase in other areas... hence there is a huge non-fundamental factor that will keep these prices high (hey... I wish it wasn't that way either... but I call it like I see it).

You can blame gov intervention, low interest rates, can kicking or whatever... but that doesn't explain why there are still drops everywhere else but not so much in the $500k-$1.2m range in Irvine.

And I will bet you that 90% of the buyers will be F (maybe not FCB... but surely F).

Us posters on here are the minority... we see the fundamentals and we value our cash... so we scratch our heads at stuff like this. But isn't how the bubble happened?

Like, why not get something like this for $800k?

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/2-Nevada-92606/home/4678100

It really is that new home smell. Even my wife said that if we could afford to put $100k down, she would "consider" it. What?!? But that's the allure... the force is strong in Woodbury.
 
[quote author="ck"]Thanks for all your efforts, IHO. Adds a lot to the conversation to see the pictures of the models. Sonoma looks nice. So let's hear what you really think --- you have certainly proven to have a sense for the Irvine market. Now that you have visited, are these worth $325-$330/sq ft? (Or maybe $350/sq ft optioned up?) I guess also considering the incremental tax and HOA to what you might find in resale?

Looking forward to your thoughts.[/quote]
I'm not sure if I answered your question in my rant above.

They are NOT worth that price to me... but compared to current inventory in Irvine... a good argument can be made that they are.

Even though, you would get a better value in resale there is a huge amount of the market who would rather buy new. We all know that many FCBs don't like to buy resale due to former owners, luck, etc etc etc. And since many are high cash, it becomes, do we settle for something that may not be exactly what we want or spend another $50-100k to get the exact lot, location and upgrades we want?

I prefer Villa Rosa over Sonoma/Carmel because of the 3rd car garage, 5th bedroom, a bit larger lot and location... but the open design of the first floor is really really nice and the rooms feel bigger in Sonoma. I actually wanted to go back to VR just to feel the difference. And of course VR is priced at $1m (although I read somewhere in these posts they are at high $900ks now?).
 
I met with the design center at Coronado today and was wondering what you guys think of their prices (I'm a noob first time home buyer!). I know the pros of going through the builder are of course the convenience of time and ability to spread out the payments over 30 years and the cons are paying property tax and having the prices marked up by the builder. I was wondering what you guys think of their pricing on some of the options that I am considering:

1) Premium carpet in all the rooms and 18x18 tiles everywhere else - $9400 or $5/sqft; $7500 for 12 x 12 titles or $4/sqft

2) Powder Room conversion to full bath (adding shower and replacing pedestal sink with full sink/cabinets) - $5300

3) Den conversion to full room (adding door, closet, shirt/skirt rack)- $1760

4) Kitchen Island - $3120

5) Shutters/Blinds for 11 windows - $3750

P.S. I met 2 of my neighbors today and I can confirm that were both Foreign. They have been living in apts for a long time saving for their first homes like I have. Definitely not cash buyers...
 
Does tiles everywhere else mean kitchen? Family room? Dining area? Entry?

The Den conversion and the Kitchen Island sound high.

Shutters/Blinds you would be better off going outside.
 
[quote author="irvinehomeowner"]Does tiles everywhere else mean kitchen? Family room? Dining area? Entry?

The Den conversion and the Kitchen Island sound high.

Shutters/Blinds you would be better off going outside.[/quote]

Yea, tile does include kitchen, family, dining, and entry. The shutters were quoted at $650 a pop and the blinds were $220ish.

I agree with the room conversion and island. The only thing I worry about is how hard it would be to match the island to my existing kitchen granite. Is this something that is really easy to do?
 
If you are using the base granite... it's pretty common... I see the same granite at all builders.

That's an okay price for flooring if that includes tiles in the bathrooms too. We just did our house with similar rooms and it came out to the same... but ours had an extra cost for tear out. So it's probably $2000 high.

The window coverings may be okay too. It seems like the builder prices have come down also with this economy.
 
[quote author="irvinehomeowner"]If you are using the base granite... it's pretty common... I see the same granite at all builders.

That's an okay price for flooring if that includes tiles in the bathrooms too. We just did our house with similar rooms and it came out to the same... but ours had an extra cost for tear out. So it's probably $2000 high.

The window coverings may be okay too. It seems like the builder prices have come down also with this economy.[/quote]

Thanks IHO. The 12 x 12 tiles are standard in the entry, kitchen and bathroom, which explains the higher cost of doing the 18 x 18 titles.

I will be using the standard included granite, so I will need to think about that kitchen island still. Forgot to mention that the island includes drawers and cabinets and also electrical outlets on both sides (just seeing if these justify the price).

Thanks for your inputs!
 
[quote author="scubasteve"]
I will be using the standard included granite, so I will need to think about that kitchen island still. Forgot to mention that the island includes drawers and cabinets and also electrical outlets on both sides (just seeing if these justify the price).

Thanks for your inputs![/quote]

Ha -- too funny, I logged on to ask "does the island have power outlets"...but you edited to add that. Our house had the builder installed optional island, with outlets. One of our neigbhors was over (who had the same plan but added a homemade island later) and they were pretty upset once they realized ours had power outlets and they didn't. That builder island might be worth the price of admission.
 
Hello All,

Since USCTrojanCPA talked about me, I figure I join the party. I have been a long time reader of the IHB forum. In fact, I was the one of the first person to join in the forum. If BK remembers, I asked him about our Cal-Pac 1550 SQFT home vs the KB PS Bougainvilla Track. Of course the Bougainvilla quickly got shot down.
My priority time was 10:02, and I thought we were able to get a plan2 of the Montecito. It turns out, that's one of the most popular choice with buyers. It was all reserved when I was called. So we ended up with plan1. Though somewhat disappointed, we are very happy with our choice. I see all the concerns with the Montecito, small lot, motorcourt etc... and quite honestly I agree with all of it. However, we have been searching for sometime and like USCTrojanCPA said, we were competing with multiple offers and lost many times. We sold our home in Dec and trying to something that we like in the resell market was pretty stressful. It's nice not to compete with unknown offers and finally have something going is a relief.

Here is something for BK eeeerrrr Grace... I have the most respect for your insight and opinion. Here is one of the reason that I could think of why someone may prefer Irivine (at least for me). I am the type who really enjoy the option of walking to shopping. So having a near by shopping center is a big plus for me. The CalPac place we sold, when we have the time we would just walk to the traderjoes and supermex on one side, or to the Albertsons and Chipotle on the other side. Having Woodbury town center with walking distance is a big plus for us. Now it seems to me, in Irvine, a home near a shopping center won't have a huge discount vs one not close. Then again, this may be just me not knowing enough other cities that has same characteristic.

scubasteve, congrats on your purchase, we could have been neighbors.
Alex, I hope we will be neighbors soon.

Good to see so many of the old timers from IHB are still very active here. Look forward to all your posts.
 
Oh by the way, I am not at all ready for urban living in Irvine. At least not ready when there is no infrastructure of public transportation. No, the "I" buses are not the answer. <!-- s:-) -->:-)<!-- s:-) -->
 
[quote author="fe9000"]Hello All,

Since USCTrojanCPA talked about me, I figure I join the party. I have been a long time reader of the IHB forum. In fact, I was the one of the first person to join in the forum. If BK remembers, I asked him about our Cal-Pac 1550 SQFT home vs the KB PS Bougainvilla Track. Of course the Bougainvilla quickly got shot down.
My priority time was 10:02, and I thought we were able to get a plan2 of the Montecito. It turns out, that's one of the most popular choice with buyers. It was all reserved when I was called. So we ended up with plan1. Though somewhat disappointed, we are very happy with our choice. I see all the concerns with the Montecito, small lot, motorcourt etc... and quite honestly I agree with all of it. However, we have been searching for sometime and like USCTrojanCPA said, we were competing with multiple offers and lost many times. We sold our home in Dec and trying to something that we like in the resell market was pretty stressful. It's nice not to compete with unknown offers and finally have something going is a relief.

Here is something for BK eeeerrrr Grace... I have the most respect for your insight and opinion. Here is one of the reason that I could think of why someone may prefer Irivine (at least for me). I am the type who really enjoy the option of walking to shopping. So having a near by shopping center is a big plus for me. The CalPac place we sold, when we have the time we would just walk to the traderjoes and supermex on one side, or to the Albertsons and Chipotle on the other side. Having Woodbury town center with walking distance is a big plus for us. Now it seems to me, in Irvine, a home near a shopping center won't have a huge discount vs one not close. Then again, this may be just me not knowing enough other cities that has same characteristic.

scubasteve, congrats on your purchase, we could have been neighbors.
Alex, I hope we will be neighbors soon.

Good to see so many of the old timers from IHB are still very active here. Look forward to all your posts.[/quote]

FE, Congrats on getting your home! Which lot did you get? 10:02!!Good job getting high on the priority list! <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->

Yes, maybe we will be neighbors soon! Again, congrats on your purchase.
 
[quote author="fe9000"]Hello All,

Since USCTrojanCPA talked about me, I figure I join the party. I have been a long time reader of the IHB forum. In fact, I was the one of the first person to join in the forum. If BK remembers, I asked him about our Cal-Pac 1550 SQFT home vs the KB PS Bougainvilla Track. Of course the Bougainvilla quickly got shot down.
My priority time was 10:02, and I thought we were able to get a plan2 of the Montecito. It turns out, that's one of the most popular choice with buyers. It was all reserved when I was called. So we ended up with plan1. Though somewhat disappointed, we are very happy with our choice. I see all the concerns with the Montecito, small lot, motorcourt etc... and quite honestly I agree with all of it. However, we have been searching for sometime and like USCTrojanCPA said, we were competing with multiple offers and lost many times. We sold our home in Dec and trying to something that we like in the resell market was pretty stressful. It's nice not to compete with unknown offers and finally have something going is a relief.

Here is something for BK eeeerrrr Grace... I have the most respect for your insight and opinion. Here is one of the reason that I could think of why someone may prefer Irivine (at least for me). I am the type who really enjoy the option of walking to shopping. So having a near by shopping center is a big plus for me. The CalPac place we sold, when we have the time we would just walk to the traderjoes and supermex on one side, or to the Albertsons and Chipotle on the other side. Having Woodbury town center with walking distance is a big plus for us. Now it seems to me, in Irvine, a home near a shopping center won't have a huge discount vs one not close. Then again, this may be just me not knowing enough other cities that has same characteristic.

scubasteve, congrats on your purchase, we could have been neighbors.
Alex, I hope we will be neighbors soon.

Good to see so many of the old timers from IHB are still very active here. Look forward to all your posts.[/quote]
I figured my post would flush you out. haha Congrats on the purchase on your purchase and the other buyers on the forum.

Remember, if you need any home upgrades after closing because the builder is charging too much you know who to contact. I know where to get the best deals and know a few good installers. <!-- s;) -->;)<!-- s;) -->

Another intangible reason for the high demand for these new homes is the fact that buyers know that they won't have to compete with multiple offers and/or cash buyers. This time, it was all about how fast you could get your application submitted online and not how much money you had in the bank or under the matress. haha <!-- s:P -->:P<!-- s:P -->
 
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