Kangen.Irvine
Active member
Our Gang,
How would you suggest the ARDA site be funded so we are successful in honoring our veterans?
How would you suggest the ARDA site be funded so we are successful in honoring our veterans?
Veterans Cemetery coming to Irvine
- Thread starter yaliu07
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Well, if the funds should be available, but I doubts Irvine voters voted for willingly know that it would raise their tax and the funds was once available from 5points should we had gone with the first deal at the strawberry farm then the tax payers would not be on the hook for this. Now, Irvine is pushing back to the ARDA site because the funds disappear like a fart in the winds as you mention. Larry, now that you put so much efforts in moving it to where you want, come up with the funds, if not it will lingers for decades. NOTHING GET BUILD VETERAN CEMETERY.
Our Gang
Active member
Monumental Strawberry Field was funded and would have been operational by now. Golf Course was funded, but the delays of the initiative process caused that to vanish before it could be used (see quotes from SQS and Archeleta). No state or private sector (FivePoint) contributions remain available. All gone like a fart in the wind.
The CalVet OWEN report - the only 'approved plan' says: "Phase 1 - Part 1- Site Preparation and Demolition (125 acres): Phase 1 of the Project will include the demolition of the entire 125 acre site. Demolition includes existing buildings, foundations, floors, floor slabs, concrete, and asphalt. The demolition also includes the removal of underground utilities."
No matter, Ed's junk preservation amusement park has no plan that any 'approving agency' has ever reviewed.
However it can only be a city park, you know. Ed's push for his initiative to be promptly adopted cut off the AB368 provision for a CalVet analysis and site selection. Last year's AB368 is now gutted. No site selection was completed. No site was officially designated. Do your homework.
How your beautiful city ARDA preservation amusement park, air museum and large antenna display will be funded is now up to your Army Veteran and retired teacher of the year Ed Pope, Chair of your Build the Great Park Cemetery committee. Ask him. Ed Pope only needs some chunk of $90 million for phase one (of 10 sequential phases) so they can begin later this year.
He'll be looking into your City/Great Park budget with his hand out.
Be generous Irvine. This is what you wanted. 4.3% of your population spoke up.
Thanks to Kev for his clip at youtu.be/T6kSDtG5hjY
The CalVet OWEN report - the only 'approved plan' says: "Phase 1 - Part 1- Site Preparation and Demolition (125 acres): Phase 1 of the Project will include the demolition of the entire 125 acre site. Demolition includes existing buildings, foundations, floors, floor slabs, concrete, and asphalt. The demolition also includes the removal of underground utilities."
No matter, Ed's junk preservation amusement park has no plan that any 'approving agency' has ever reviewed.
However it can only be a city park, you know. Ed's push for his initiative to be promptly adopted cut off the AB368 provision for a CalVet analysis and site selection. Last year's AB368 is now gutted. No site selection was completed. No site was officially designated. Do your homework.
How your beautiful city ARDA preservation amusement park, air museum and large antenna display will be funded is now up to your Army Veteran and retired teacher of the year Ed Pope, Chair of your Build the Great Park Cemetery committee. Ask him. Ed Pope only needs some chunk of $90 million for phase one (of 10 sequential phases) so they can begin later this year.
He'll be looking into your City/Great Park budget with his hand out.
Be generous Irvine. This is what you wanted. 4.3% of your population spoke up.
Thanks to Kev for his clip at youtu.be/T6kSDtG5hjY
irvinebullhousing
Well-known member
Be generous in Depression Era? That?s a good laugh.
How about Larry Agran and his gangs who fought all these years against the Irvine city start an online crowdfunding, Maybe gather more signatures for donation at every stores front in Irvine will be next. Just a suggestion.
How about Larry Agran and his gangs who fought all these years against the Irvine city start an online crowdfunding, Maybe gather more signatures for donation at every stores front in Irvine will be next. Just a suggestion.
Our Gang
Active member
Larry says: Our Mayor and City Council should start transforming the Great Park ARDA site right now. Specifically, before working out an agreement to transfer the property to the State, the Mayor and City Council should order the demolition of abandoned buildings and structures on the ARDA site ? restoring the property by clearing the site and cleaning up the land. According to City staff, this could begin within the next 60 days. .... In addition, City officials should order the expedited planning and implementation ? within one year ? of a system of beautiful trees and trails along the entire 2-mile perimeter of the ARDA site, just as the Initiative provides.
You'll pay Irvine. Shoulda done your homework and read thru that initiative.
You'll pay Irvine. Shoulda done your homework and read thru that initiative.
irvinebullhousing
Well-known member
Our Gang said:
Well, if the funds should be available, but I doubts Irvine voters voted for willingly know that it would raise their tax and the funds was once available from 5points should we had gone with the first deal at the strawberry farm then the tax payers would not be on the hook for this. Now, Irvine is pushing back to the ARDA site because the funds disappear like a fart in the winds as you mention. Larry, now that you put so much efforts in moving it to where you want, come up with the funds, if not it will lingers for decades. NOTHING GET BUILD VETERAN CEMETERY.
Kangen.Irvine
Active member
I agree...so much money was put into campaign signs and petition signing so the same money should become the start of public donations for cemetery.
Our Gang
Active member
Twice now the Irvine voter was presented a fully funded Veterans Cemetery, located with all due consideration to the desires and concerns of Irvine's schools and diverse communities.
Twice now the voters spoke for the unfunded and most offensive site.
The voice of the people after listening to Ed Pope's Irvine veterans.
Twice now the voters spoke for the unfunded and most offensive site.
The voice of the people after listening to Ed Pope's Irvine veterans.
Our Gang
Active member
[/quote] Build it in the Inland Empire or Bakersfield and call it a day.
[/quote]
Both do already have Veterans Cemeteries. So it's a day.
Watch out Irvine! 'ol Larry Agran is now scheming to force his Irvine ARDA memorial park and museum on you before CalVet releases their site study, expected in May, which will no-brainer select the golf course.
But you do have a better option. Just get of of the cemetery business altogether. Send the unwanted Vets packing off to Anaheim.
[/quote]
Both do already have Veterans Cemeteries. So it's a day.
Watch out Irvine! 'ol Larry Agran is now scheming to force his Irvine ARDA memorial park and museum on you before CalVet releases their site study, expected in May, which will no-brainer select the golf course.
But you do have a better option. Just get of of the cemetery business altogether. Send the unwanted Vets packing off to Anaheim.
Kangen.Irvine
Active member
Anyone know what is being built near Five Point?s (old) preferred site (Muirlands/Alton/Marine)? It looks like an irrigation ditch cut the property diagonally or a low level bike trail.
Irvine veterans cemetery could cost between $75 million and $110 million, state says
The costs estimates to build a proposed state-run veterans cemetery in Irvine are in, and they are eye-popping.
A 100-acre site in the Great Park that had been slated for a golf course could cost up to $75 million to develop as a cemetery, and a 125-acre site known as ARDA on the park?s northern border could run as much as $110 million, according to studies released Friday, June 4, by the California Department of Veterans Affairs, or CalVet.
An Orange County cemetery honoring veterans has been talked about for years, and its potential location has been fought over since at least 2017.
The ARDA site was selected when city leaders first began discussing the project in earnest. Within a few years some began saying it might require too much cleanup and they began looking elsewhere, while others maintained ARDA was the best option and accused detractors of wanting to hand the land over to a developer instead.
Both sites the state studied were part of the old El Toro Marine air base, and both would start with an initial open portion and have burial capacity added over a projected 100-year timeframe. The plan is for the city to gift whichever site is chosen to the state, which would build and run the cemetery, with possible federal reimbursement for some construction costs.
A state-hired consultant, Huitt-Zollars, prepared the estimates. A first phase including administration buildings, restrooms, roads, landscaping and spaces for the remains of roughly 20,000 people was pegged at about $60 million for the golf course site; a first phase at ARDA including roads, landscaping, a memorial walk and perimeter berm and space for about 5,000 people?s remains was estimated around $95 million.
The state previously studied the ARDA site in detail; it appears officials updated the old cost figures rather than doing a whole new study. Additional costs at both sites included environmental documents, construction management, inspections and the like.
About $24.5 million for an Orange County veterans cemetery was set aside in previous state budgets, but no other funding has been earmarked.
With the long-awaited information now available, the ball may now be in Irvine?s court. In an email Friday, CalVet spokeswoman Lindsay Sin wrote, ?Among the next steps will be to work with the city of Irvine to better understand which site it would like to make available as the preferred site for development of the veterans cemetery.?
For the Irvine City Council, that?s likely to be a contentious discussion.
Councilman Larry Agran, who campaigned for two ballot measures intended to cement ARDA as the cemetery location, hadn?t had a chance to look at the studies when reached on Friday but maintained that cost estimates beyond a bare $63.6 million for construction at ARDA are ?highly speculative? and misleading.
The city will be donating a very valuable piece of land, and the ARDA site will make a better cemetery with more value to the community, Agran said ? and Irvine taxpayers won?t be footing the bill, so they shouldn?t agree to skimp on something intended to honor the state?s veterans.
?We here in Irvine are not in the business of trying to save the state of California a few nickels and dimes,? he said. ?When somebody comes in and says, ?Oh, we could build it on the cheap at an inferior site,? I?m not convinced as a representative of Irvine taxpayers.?
Councilman Anthony Kuo disputed Agran?s assumptions, noting Agran has been touting a cemetery plan that would retain and reuse some of the airplane hangars and other vestiges of the former Marine base, but he doesn?t believe those plans meet state or federal standards.
?Folks should be asking whoever is footing that bill ? the state ? which (site) would you rather build,? Kuo said. ?My position has always been let?s move down the path that will get a veterans cemetery delivered as quickly as possible, and usually more expensive means not as quickly.?
The next big question is likely to be whether a cemetery could legally be built on any site other than ARDA. A 2020 ballot initiative the council adopted rather than sending to voters zoned the ARDA site for a cemetery and barred cemetery uses in the Great Park (meaning the golf course site would be off limits), but the city attorney has argued the measure is not binding on the council. Kuo said the state has the power to ignore local zoning on property it controls.
Mayor Farrah Khan said both projects are ?very, very expensive? and she wants to discuss the data in detail with city staff and state officials.
?If our goal at the end of the day is to build a veterans cemetery, we?re going to have to compromise somewhere,? she said. ?I think the next steps are going to be a lot of conversations.?
https://www.ocregister.com/2021/06/...etween-75-million-and-110-million-state-says/
The costs estimates to build a proposed state-run veterans cemetery in Irvine are in, and they are eye-popping.
A 100-acre site in the Great Park that had been slated for a golf course could cost up to $75 million to develop as a cemetery, and a 125-acre site known as ARDA on the park?s northern border could run as much as $110 million, according to studies released Friday, June 4, by the California Department of Veterans Affairs, or CalVet.
An Orange County cemetery honoring veterans has been talked about for years, and its potential location has been fought over since at least 2017.
The ARDA site was selected when city leaders first began discussing the project in earnest. Within a few years some began saying it might require too much cleanup and they began looking elsewhere, while others maintained ARDA was the best option and accused detractors of wanting to hand the land over to a developer instead.
Both sites the state studied were part of the old El Toro Marine air base, and both would start with an initial open portion and have burial capacity added over a projected 100-year timeframe. The plan is for the city to gift whichever site is chosen to the state, which would build and run the cemetery, with possible federal reimbursement for some construction costs.
A state-hired consultant, Huitt-Zollars, prepared the estimates. A first phase including administration buildings, restrooms, roads, landscaping and spaces for the remains of roughly 20,000 people was pegged at about $60 million for the golf course site; a first phase at ARDA including roads, landscaping, a memorial walk and perimeter berm and space for about 5,000 people?s remains was estimated around $95 million.
The state previously studied the ARDA site in detail; it appears officials updated the old cost figures rather than doing a whole new study. Additional costs at both sites included environmental documents, construction management, inspections and the like.
About $24.5 million for an Orange County veterans cemetery was set aside in previous state budgets, but no other funding has been earmarked.
With the long-awaited information now available, the ball may now be in Irvine?s court. In an email Friday, CalVet spokeswoman Lindsay Sin wrote, ?Among the next steps will be to work with the city of Irvine to better understand which site it would like to make available as the preferred site for development of the veterans cemetery.?
For the Irvine City Council, that?s likely to be a contentious discussion.
Councilman Larry Agran, who campaigned for two ballot measures intended to cement ARDA as the cemetery location, hadn?t had a chance to look at the studies when reached on Friday but maintained that cost estimates beyond a bare $63.6 million for construction at ARDA are ?highly speculative? and misleading.
The city will be donating a very valuable piece of land, and the ARDA site will make a better cemetery with more value to the community, Agran said ? and Irvine taxpayers won?t be footing the bill, so they shouldn?t agree to skimp on something intended to honor the state?s veterans.
?We here in Irvine are not in the business of trying to save the state of California a few nickels and dimes,? he said. ?When somebody comes in and says, ?Oh, we could build it on the cheap at an inferior site,? I?m not convinced as a representative of Irvine taxpayers.?
Councilman Anthony Kuo disputed Agran?s assumptions, noting Agran has been touting a cemetery plan that would retain and reuse some of the airplane hangars and other vestiges of the former Marine base, but he doesn?t believe those plans meet state or federal standards.
?Folks should be asking whoever is footing that bill ? the state ? which (site) would you rather build,? Kuo said. ?My position has always been let?s move down the path that will get a veterans cemetery delivered as quickly as possible, and usually more expensive means not as quickly.?
The next big question is likely to be whether a cemetery could legally be built on any site other than ARDA. A 2020 ballot initiative the council adopted rather than sending to voters zoned the ARDA site for a cemetery and barred cemetery uses in the Great Park (meaning the golf course site would be off limits), but the city attorney has argued the measure is not binding on the council. Kuo said the state has the power to ignore local zoning on property it controls.
Mayor Farrah Khan said both projects are ?very, very expensive? and she wants to discuss the data in detail with city staff and state officials.
?If our goal at the end of the day is to build a veterans cemetery, we?re going to have to compromise somewhere,? she said. ?I think the next steps are going to be a lot of conversations.?
https://www.ocregister.com/2021/06/...etween-75-million-and-110-million-state-says/
Veterans Abandon Potential Cemetery Site Ahead of Contentious Irvine City Council Vote
https://voiceofoc.org/2021/06/veter...head-of-contentious-irvine-city-council-vote/
https://voiceofoc.org/2021/06/veter...head-of-contentious-irvine-city-council-vote/
Our Gang
Active member
Veterans Group Moves Support From Irvine To Anaheim Hills Cemetery
June 8, 2021 Daily News Anaheim
Just days after the state released high-profile cost estimates for a veterans cemetery in Irvine, two groups of veterans are shifting support to an area in Anaheim Hills that is already being planned as a public burial site.
The Veterans Alliance of Orange County (or VALOR), whose board of directors consists of Army, Navy and Navy veterinarians (??), released its own open space at the intersection of Highway 91 and Toll Road 241 on Monday the 7th.?This site is majestic, it is beautiful, it is seen by tens of thousands of people every day, which reminds us of our freedoms and sacrifices,? said VALOR President Nick Berardino.
?Although we have our financial and legal challenges ahead of us, we will not be drawn into a civil war, we will fight a single mission.? This ?civil war?? Irvine officials could not decide which of two possible cemetery locations to pursue. Late last week, the State Department of Veterans Affairs released cost estimates for both locations ? up to $ 75 million for a 100-acre portion of Orange County Great Park that was planned as a golf course, and up to $ 110 million for one 125-hectare leftover property called ARDA on the northern border of the park among pricey neighborhoods and schools. Both locations are within the footprint of the former El Toro Marine Air Force (??) Base, which closed in 1999 absent any consideration for a Veterans Cemetery.
The Anaheim Hills property was donated to the county by the Irvine Company in 2014. The county regulators then turned it over to the Orange County Cemetery District, which operates three community cemeteries but has run out of coffin burial spaces for two. District officials were already planning a new public cemetery there, saying they could easily make room for veterans.
The move to the Anaheim Hills location is also supported by the Orange County Veterans Memorial Park Foundation, which was established specifically to support a cemetery project in the county. ?We don?t have time for another decade of minor political struggles and broken promises to our veterans,? Foundation Chairman Bill Cook said in a press release.
The Anaheim Hills property is also facing obstacles. There are no official cost estimates for construction there, and it is unclear whether the state ? which is expected to build and operate an Irvine Veterans Cemetery ? would support the use of this site. ?I?m not going to pretend it?s a cheap and easy thing. There are infrastructure issues at this location, ?including the need to bring water, sewer and power lines, as well as the expectation to build a bridge to access the Gypsum Canyon site,? said OC supervisor Don Wagner. Funding questions would need to be answered and $ 24.5 million in designated government funds would need to be diverted to the Anaheim Hills property, he said. However, Wagner believes the support of the veterans groups means that ?there might be no reason for the state to continue in this frankly impasse? of Irvine locations.
Irvine's own Larry Agran, who has backed two votes to build a cemetery only on the ARDA and spitefully killed the fully funded Strawberry Field site, said he wasn?t sure what to make of the veterans? shifting loyalty. He predicted that a Gypsum Canyon cemetery would cost ?hundreds of millions of dollars? and that environmental studies and other requirements would leave him at least five years behind an Irvine project. ?My Irvine people really want their veterans memorial park and cemetery ? and they want it on the ARDA, [so as not to let the site fall into the hands of greedy developer FivePoint]? said Agran. He has publicly promoted his fictional fantasyland of a cemetery plan that includes a botanical garden, an aviation museum (Irvine has already invited the Flying Leatherneck Museum to relocate from Miramar to their old home on MCAS El Toro!), and a giant ground flag none of which state officials said they would build. Whoever could pay for these items, ?if we transfer the ARDA to the state, it would do so under my certain conditions, and those conditions would be very favorable to the city of Irvine,? he said.
Tim Deutsch, general manager of the Orange County Cemetery District, said the design of a new 92-acre public cemetery on the Gypsum Canyon site was being refined and the district would be about 96 acres for a veterans cemetery with a buffer between the two. District officials are considering a plan that would cost just under $ 40 million for the public side, including utility outlets that would serve the use that will ultimately be chosen for the rest of the site. Next up is an environmental study of the project and a decision on how to finance the public cemetery.
Irvine Mayor Farrah Khan said it was a sad situation that the veterans groups won their support for an Irvine cemetery, but she understands her frustration. She would like to sit down with everyone involved and possibly hold a public meeting to discuss the options. ?If we want to achieve something in this city,? she said, ?a lot of people have to compromise.?
https://dailyanaheimnews.com/veterans-group-moves.../
June 8, 2021 Daily News Anaheim
Just days after the state released high-profile cost estimates for a veterans cemetery in Irvine, two groups of veterans are shifting support to an area in Anaheim Hills that is already being planned as a public burial site.
The Veterans Alliance of Orange County (or VALOR), whose board of directors consists of Army, Navy and Navy veterinarians (??), released its own open space at the intersection of Highway 91 and Toll Road 241 on Monday the 7th.?This site is majestic, it is beautiful, it is seen by tens of thousands of people every day, which reminds us of our freedoms and sacrifices,? said VALOR President Nick Berardino.
?Although we have our financial and legal challenges ahead of us, we will not be drawn into a civil war, we will fight a single mission.? This ?civil war?? Irvine officials could not decide which of two possible cemetery locations to pursue. Late last week, the State Department of Veterans Affairs released cost estimates for both locations ? up to $ 75 million for a 100-acre portion of Orange County Great Park that was planned as a golf course, and up to $ 110 million for one 125-hectare leftover property called ARDA on the northern border of the park among pricey neighborhoods and schools. Both locations are within the footprint of the former El Toro Marine Air Force (??) Base, which closed in 1999 absent any consideration for a Veterans Cemetery.
The Anaheim Hills property was donated to the county by the Irvine Company in 2014. The county regulators then turned it over to the Orange County Cemetery District, which operates three community cemeteries but has run out of coffin burial spaces for two. District officials were already planning a new public cemetery there, saying they could easily make room for veterans.
The move to the Anaheim Hills location is also supported by the Orange County Veterans Memorial Park Foundation, which was established specifically to support a cemetery project in the county. ?We don?t have time for another decade of minor political struggles and broken promises to our veterans,? Foundation Chairman Bill Cook said in a press release.
The Anaheim Hills property is also facing obstacles. There are no official cost estimates for construction there, and it is unclear whether the state ? which is expected to build and operate an Irvine Veterans Cemetery ? would support the use of this site. ?I?m not going to pretend it?s a cheap and easy thing. There are infrastructure issues at this location, ?including the need to bring water, sewer and power lines, as well as the expectation to build a bridge to access the Gypsum Canyon site,? said OC supervisor Don Wagner. Funding questions would need to be answered and $ 24.5 million in designated government funds would need to be diverted to the Anaheim Hills property, he said. However, Wagner believes the support of the veterans groups means that ?there might be no reason for the state to continue in this frankly impasse? of Irvine locations.
Irvine's own Larry Agran, who has backed two votes to build a cemetery only on the ARDA and spitefully killed the fully funded Strawberry Field site, said he wasn?t sure what to make of the veterans? shifting loyalty. He predicted that a Gypsum Canyon cemetery would cost ?hundreds of millions of dollars? and that environmental studies and other requirements would leave him at least five years behind an Irvine project. ?My Irvine people really want their veterans memorial park and cemetery ? and they want it on the ARDA, [so as not to let the site fall into the hands of greedy developer FivePoint]? said Agran. He has publicly promoted his fictional fantasyland of a cemetery plan that includes a botanical garden, an aviation museum (Irvine has already invited the Flying Leatherneck Museum to relocate from Miramar to their old home on MCAS El Toro!), and a giant ground flag none of which state officials said they would build. Whoever could pay for these items, ?if we transfer the ARDA to the state, it would do so under my certain conditions, and those conditions would be very favorable to the city of Irvine,? he said.
Tim Deutsch, general manager of the Orange County Cemetery District, said the design of a new 92-acre public cemetery on the Gypsum Canyon site was being refined and the district would be about 96 acres for a veterans cemetery with a buffer between the two. District officials are considering a plan that would cost just under $ 40 million for the public side, including utility outlets that would serve the use that will ultimately be chosen for the rest of the site. Next up is an environmental study of the project and a decision on how to finance the public cemetery.
Irvine Mayor Farrah Khan said it was a sad situation that the veterans groups won their support for an Irvine cemetery, but she understands her frustration. She would like to sit down with everyone involved and possibly hold a public meeting to discuss the options. ?If we want to achieve something in this city,? she said, ?a lot of people have to compromise.?
https://dailyanaheimnews.com/veterans-group-moves.../
Irvine Takes No Action on Veterans Cemetery, Opening Door for Possible Anaheim Site
IHS was right all along.
https://voiceofoc.org/2021/06/irvin...etery-opening-door-for-possible-anaheim-site/
IHS was right all along.
https://voiceofoc.org/2021/06/irvin...etery-opening-door-for-possible-anaheim-site/
https://voiceofoc.org/2021/07/is-the-dream-of-an-irvine-veterans-cemetery-on-the-way-out-the-door/
Umberg bill tabled until 1/2022.
Umberg bill tabled until 1/2022.
OC Board of Supervisors may chip in $20 million for veterans cemetery project in Anaheim
https://www.ocregister.com/2021/07/...ion-for-veterans-cemetery-project-in-anaheim/
https://www.ocregister.com/2021/07/...ion-for-veterans-cemetery-project-in-anaheim/
They chipping in like its free money. (Like its candy)
How about fundraise the money from the private sector and maybe match it? (or maybe straight fundraise) Lease for potential retail stores. (Flower shop, memorabilia store) I dont know if thats a good idea or not. But thinking out of the box is key.
How about fundraise the money from the private sector and maybe match it? (or maybe straight fundraise) Lease for potential retail stores. (Flower shop, memorabilia store) I dont know if thats a good idea or not. But thinking out of the box is key.
Kangen.Irvine
Active member
Maybe that money could be appropriated for ANY future veterans cemetery in Orange County. I just see the money allocation for candidates to use in support of their future campaigns.
Irvine?s ultimate NIMBY fight: A cemetery for veterans deemed an undesirable blight
https://www.latimes.com/california/...cals-spar-over-irvine-military-cemetery-plans
https://www.latimes.com/california/...cals-spar-over-irvine-military-cemetery-plans