Veterans Cemetery coming to Irvine

[eatthis]

We have had all these discussion points before.  The arguments boils down to honoring former soldiers vs. potential market value impact/fear of the dead.  To me, it's a wash so I don't really support or are against it.

I couldn't disagree more. It's far more than just market value or the fear of the dead.

The fact that toxic chemical can seep into the ground and affect resident's health is not a wash against honoring soldiers. The fact that there will be 22 burials every single day through highly trafficked Irvine Blvd is not a wash against honoring soldiers.

One is sentimental, the other is real impact on the living.

 

[bones]

We have had all these discussion points before.  The arguments boils down to honoring former soldiers vs. potential market value impact/fear of the dead.  To me, it's a wash so I don't really support or are against it.

I couldn't disagree more. It's far more than just market value or the fear of the dead.

The fact that toxic chemical can seep into the ground and affect resident's health is not a wash against honoring soldiers. The fact that there will be 22 burials every single day through highly trafficked Irvine Blvd is not a wash against honoring soldiers.

One is sentimental, the other is real impact on the living.

Where's the 22 number from?  Is it supposed to be as busy as riverside's cemetary?  Also, don't they reach capacity at a certain point and can no longer take on new "occupants"?  What is the capacity of the proposed cemetery?  is there one?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

We have had all these discussion points before.  The arguments boils down to honoring former soldiers vs. potential market value impact/fear of the dead.  To me, it's a wash so I don't really support or are against it.

I couldn't disagree more. It's far more than just market value or the fear of the dead.

The fact that toxic chemical can seep into the ground and affect resident's health is not a wash against honoring soldiers. The fact that there will be 22 burials every single day through highly trafficked Irvine Blvd is not a wash against honoring soldiers.

One is sentimental, the other is real impact on the living.

You understand that PP and BP are on a military base and former superfund site right?  Whatever toxicity is created by the cemetery is tiny compared to what is already out there. 

Also, you have construction and garbage truck running through Sand Canyon basically all parts the day to the dump (which also has soil toxicity issues).  I don't even know where you get 22 burials a day.

 

[ps99472]

We have had all these discussion points before.  The arguments boils down to honoring former soldiers vs. potential market value impact/fear of the dead.  To me, it's a wash so I don't really support or are against it.

I couldn't disagree more. It's far more than just market value or the fear of the dead.

The fact that toxic chemical can seep into the ground and affect resident's health is not a wash against honoring soldiers. The fact that there will be 22 burials every single day through highly trafficked Irvine Blvd is not a wash against honoring soldiers.

One is sentimental, the other is real impact on the living.

Where's the 22 number from?  Is it supposed to be as busy as riverside's cemetary?  Also, don't they reach capacity at a certain point and can no longer take on new "occupants"?  What is the capacity of the proposed cemetery?  is there one?

50 years, 20 years minimum to get feds to fund, but ideal is 50 years
http://www.cityofirvine.org/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=25475

 

[ps99472]

Maybe BP is not that ideal after all:  look north for landfill, look west for freeway/low income housing, look east for cemetery, look further east for jail, and look down for ex-superfund site.  Might as well start a fracking operation next....

 

[eatthis]

Where's the 22 number from?  Is it supposed to be as busy as riverside's cemetary?  Also, don't they reach capacity at a certain point and can no longer take on new "occupants"?  What is the capacity of the proposed cemetery?  is there one?

No. It's projected to be busier. If you assume it's only the same as Riverside today it'd be 8000 burials / 365 days = 22 burials /day. As PS9 pointed to, it'd be active for no less than 20 years, most likely 50.

 

[bones]

Where's the 22 number from?  Is it supposed to be as busy as riverside's cemetary?  Also, don't they reach capacity at a certain point and can no longer take on new "occupants"?  What is the capacity of the proposed cemetery?  is there one?

No. It's projected to be busier. If you assume it's only the same as Riverside today it'd be 8000 burials / 365 days = 22 burials /day. As PS9 pointed to, it'd be active for no less than 20 years, most likely 50.

Yea that's pretty busy. Although, I don't think all 22 (or whatever the number is) gets all the bells and whistles. Some are just lowkey flag folding affairs.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Where's the 22 number from?  Is it supposed to be as busy as riverside's cemetary?  Also, don't they reach capacity at a certain point and can no longer take on new "occupants"?  What is the capacity of the proposed cemetery?  is there one?

No. It's projected to be busier. If you assume it's only the same as Riverside today it'd be 8000 burials / 365 days = 22 burials /day. As PS9 pointed to, it'd be active for no less than 20 years, most likely 50.

First of all, most of events will be happening on weekends..70% of the projected "burial" will be cremation burials. 

Still haven't address the former military base/superfund site issue.  Also, you have a minimal security prison just down Irvine Blvd..yet no one seems to care about that.

Just be honest with the argument rather than come up with same tangential ones without little or no basis. 

 

[bones]

Where's the 22 number from?  Is it supposed to be as busy as riverside's cemetary?  Also, don't they reach capacity at a certain point and can no longer take on new "occupants"?  What is the capacity of the proposed cemetery?  is there one?

No. It's projected to be busier. If you assume it's only the same as Riverside today it'd be 8000 burials / 365 days = 22 burials /day. As PS9 pointed to, it'd be active for no less than 20 years, most likely 50.

First of all, most of events will be happening on weekends..70% of the projected "burial" will be cremation burials. 

Still haven't address the former military base/superfund site issue.

Just be honest with the argument rather than come up with same tangential ones without little or no basis. 

Is it weekend?  The riverside website seems to suggest otherwise.

Military Funeral Honors
In addition to the Department of Defense military funeral honors program, "Honoring Those Who Served," the Riverside National Cemetery Memorial Honor Detail (MHD) is generally available Monday through Friday to provide military funeral honors for veterans. MHD teams are strictly volunteers and vary in size and scope, from folding and presenting the flag only, to full honors with a rifle salute and bugler. All military funeral honors performed by the MHD are provided at NO COST to the family. Once a committal service has been scheduled, families and funeral directors can arrange military honors by calling (951) 300-3216.

 

[yaliu07]

Maybe BP is not that ideal after all:  look north for landfill, look west for freeway/low income housing, look east for cemetery, look further east for jail, and look down for ex-superfund site.  Might as well start a fracking operation next....

and it cost at least 1 MILLION dollars for a SFR.  assume the minimum wage is 15 dollars per hours.

1000000 dollars / 15 dollars / 8 hours per day / 260 days = 32 years...

260 days = 365 / 7 days per week * 5 workdays per week
you only need 32 years to make 1 MILLION dollars. 

 

[ps99472]

and $10,000 per year in CFDs to live in this nice cut of Irvine luxury

 

[eatthis]

You understand that PP and BP are on a military base and former superfund site right?  Whatever toxicity is created by the cemetery is tiny compared to what is already out there. 

Also, you have construction and garbage truck running through Sand Canyon basically all parts the day to the dump (which also has soil toxicity issues).  I don't even know where you get 22 burials a day.

PP was farm land, not part of the military base. There's a superfund to help clean up the site prior to residential use. Whether you believe it or not is your call. But, is anyone setting aside a pile of cash to clean up the cemetery and pay for sick residents?

I'm not sure what the argument is here. The land is so toxic anyways that what's a few more chemicals?

22 burials is simple math. Riverside veteran's cemetery currently does 8000 burials a year, divide by 365 days a year is 22 burials a day. The current projection is that a GP cemetery would over take Riverside as the busiest in the country.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

You understand that PP and BP are on a military base and former superfund site right?  Whatever toxicity is created by the cemetery is tiny compared to what is already out there. 

Also, you have construction and garbage truck running through Sand Canyon basically all parts the day to the dump (which also has soil toxicity issues).  I don't even know where you get 22 burials a day.

PP was farm land, not part of the military base. There's a superfund to help clean up the site prior to residential use. Whether you believe it or not is your call. But, is anyone setting aside a pile of cash to clean up the cemetery and pay for sick residents?

I'm not sure what the argument is here. The land is so toxic anyways that what's a few more chemicals?

22 burials is simple math. Riverside veteran's cemetery currently does 8000 burials a year, divide by 365 days a year is 22 burials a day. The current project is that a GP cemetery would over take Riverside as the busiest in the country.

The argument is that your "toxicity" argument is bad and mostly irrelevant.  PP is nowhere there the veteran park and the other parts of the GP is already "toxic."  There is already a TCE issue underneath the Great Park.  Farmland is not exactly kosher either...pesticides, insecticide, and fertilizers all contaminate the land.  Yet, you didn't care about any of those things when you bought the house...but veteran cemetery is like Cherynbol.

I find the estimation really inflated (probably for presentation purposes).  It is based upon a 25% rate (double that of other cemeteries) and a potential pool from both LA and OC counties. 

 

[eatthis]

First of all, most of events will be happening on weekends..70% of the projected "burial" will be cremation burials.

What fact do you base this on?

Still haven't address the former military base/superfund site issue.

There's a superfund to pay for the cleanup. Whether you believe it's clean or not is another story. Where's the money to clean up after the cemetery pollutes the ground and make residents sick?

Also, you have a minimal security prison just down Irvine Blvd..yet no one seems to care about that.

Why is this mutually exclusive? This thread is about the cemetery.

Just be honest with the argument rather than come up with same tangential ones without little or no basis.

Can't argue with the facts.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

First of all, most of events will be happening on weekends..70% of the projected "burial" will be cremation burials.

What fact do you base this on?

Still haven't address the former military base/superfund site issue.

There's a superfund to pay for the cleanup. Whether you believe it's clean or not is another story. Where's the money to clean up after the cemetery pollutes the ground and make residents sick?

Also, you have a minimal security prison just down Irvine Blvd..yet no one seems to care about that.

Why is this mutually exclusive? This thread is about the cemetery.

Just be honest with the argument rather than come up with same tangential ones without little or no basis.

Can't argue with the facts.

1)  There was cleanup but there is still plenty of toxic stuff down there.  It's not a coincidence that CG (who is based upon a former helicopter military base) has a disclosure warning you not to eat the fruit grown on the land.  TCE plume issue is well know.  If those things didn't concern you when you bought the house, why is the tiny threat posed by the cemetery a big one now?

2)  It's not mutual exclusive but the jail was there when you bought the house, but that not a concern.

3)  It's not "facts"...it's classic NIMBY.  Which is really weird because the Veteran's Park is not even in PP's backyard.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I agree with most of IC's points except that many funerals do happen during the weekdays... I attended a weekday military one at Lake Forest.

 

[eatthis]

The argument is that your "toxicity" argument is bad and mostly irrelevant.  PP is nowhere there the veteran park and the other parts of the GP is already "toxic."  There is already a TCE issue underneath the Great Park.  Farmland is not exactly kosher either...pesticides, insecticide, and fertilizers all contaminate the land.

Yet, you didn't care about any of those things when you bought the house...but veteran cemetery is like Cherynbol.

Your argument make no sense. Just about all of orange county is farm land that's been cleaned up and people have been living here for years without problem. Cemetery on the other hand, no comparison. Proven to make people sick and contaminate water.

I find the estimation really inflated (probably for presentation purposes).  It is based upon a 25% rate (double that of other cemeteries) and a potential pool from both LA and OC counties.

It's not about how you feel. Go do your research. Riverside does 8000 burials a year. That's the fact.

 

[eatthis]

If those things didn't concern you when you bought the house, why is the tiny threat posed by the cemetery a big one now?

On what basis do you have that this is a tiny threat? Go do some research.

2)  It's not mutual exclusive but the jail was there when you bought the house, but that not a concern.

Irrelevant to this conversation. What does toxic chemical from cemetery, cemetery's closeness to the high school and traffic impact from the burial on Irvine Blvd have to do with this?

3)  It's not "facts"...it's classic NIMBY.  Which is really weird because the Veteran's Park is not even in PP's backyard.

You keep restating your opinion without any additional fact to back up your argument.

 

[ps99472]

@yaliu

don't know what strategy this town hall meeting you guys have brainstormed on... but you need to tread carefully.  Any guidance from 5point general counsel?  How you present yourself will be important, read 5 point memo in the link i posted above to see how to word your stance against the cemetery.  Consider hiring a PR consult?  Do you have a spokesperson?  Or is it gonna be a bunch of hecklers at the meeting with the mayor?

 

[eyephone]

This topic deserves a chat room feature on TI.