Trooper_IHB
New member
So for a $3000 tax return in 2008, you are willing to lose (conceivably) a couple hundred thousand ? WTF.
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green_cactus_IHB
New member
Isn't that what jingle mail is for?
CM_Dude_IHB
New member
Hell, I won't get any benefit from this bogus "stimulus" and somehow ended up owing the State while getting a refund from the Feds. WTF?
qwerty_IHB
New member
Grewupinirvine - sounds like you need to decrease your withholdings, turbotax and the irs website have handy calculators you can use to try and break even. And as far as buying a home and buying big, its never smart to spend a dollar to save 30 cents, you sound like a smart person, you should know that.
GrewUpInIrvine_IHB
New member
Ok, Ok. The ire of my tax revelation has passed.
But it is amusing that merely living in a million dollar home would cure this "tax payment opportunity." You see, I'd agree with Suzy Orman (spelling) on one thing, it is how debt and money make you feel, not just simply the cold calculation. Living in a one bedroom with a spouse and a baby and (a) not getting a refund and (b) owing tax, just strike me as an incongruent state of affairs. I've been careful to get all of my student debt discharged (largely because of the AGI caps for student interest deductions - I haven't qualified for some time) and for that matter, any non-deductible debt. And then I save. Save and save and save. Last year I was right against the 401K cap. I even made non-deductible IRA contributions (so that I can transfer it into my Roth in 2010 - I currently am to "rich" to contribute directly to my Roth.) Meanwhile, many people - who bought into this game years ago - have household incomes in the 100K area, live in respectible SFR's, receive tax rebate, etc. What a comical state of affairs. And look, while I am being a bit sarcastic - and am generally displease with the socialized aspects of our meritocracy - it just strikes me that I could lead a more convenient day-to-day existence if I simply did my part to "grow the economy." It seems that the lesson learned is that the tax code is structured to create negative inducements towards the rich - that I shouldn't "hoard my wealth" but should be rewarded for incuring debt - creating some small measure of liquidity. Think about it. That mortgage interest deduction that I am so wistful for is nothing but a subsidy for my choice to take on debt. While my savings Roth, Ira, 529, etc. receive no favorable tax treatment...ergo the government's socialist motives...
As for increasing withholdings - I swear that I did that after I owed about 3K last year. However, it seems that with an increase in income, I've started on the path of ever steep taxation. Anyway, I'd rather pay the government at the end, than to give them the money over the course of the year. It may be time to get (a) an accountant and (b) a home-business.
But it is amusing that merely living in a million dollar home would cure this "tax payment opportunity." You see, I'd agree with Suzy Orman (spelling) on one thing, it is how debt and money make you feel, not just simply the cold calculation. Living in a one bedroom with a spouse and a baby and (a) not getting a refund and (b) owing tax, just strike me as an incongruent state of affairs. I've been careful to get all of my student debt discharged (largely because of the AGI caps for student interest deductions - I haven't qualified for some time) and for that matter, any non-deductible debt. And then I save. Save and save and save. Last year I was right against the 401K cap. I even made non-deductible IRA contributions (so that I can transfer it into my Roth in 2010 - I currently am to "rich" to contribute directly to my Roth.) Meanwhile, many people - who bought into this game years ago - have household incomes in the 100K area, live in respectible SFR's, receive tax rebate, etc. What a comical state of affairs. And look, while I am being a bit sarcastic - and am generally displease with the socialized aspects of our meritocracy - it just strikes me that I could lead a more convenient day-to-day existence if I simply did my part to "grow the economy." It seems that the lesson learned is that the tax code is structured to create negative inducements towards the rich - that I shouldn't "hoard my wealth" but should be rewarded for incuring debt - creating some small measure of liquidity. Think about it. That mortgage interest deduction that I am so wistful for is nothing but a subsidy for my choice to take on debt. While my savings Roth, Ira, 529, etc. receive no favorable tax treatment...ergo the government's socialist motives...
As for increasing withholdings - I swear that I did that after I owed about 3K last year. However, it seems that with an increase in income, I've started on the path of ever steep taxation. Anyway, I'd rather pay the government at the end, than to give them the money over the course of the year. It may be time to get (a) an accountant and (b) a home-business.
qwerty_IHB
New member
Grewupinirvine - i agree that i would rather pay at the end, but the govt has thought of that too, and you have to pay 90% of your tax liability through withholdings or you can get penalized for not paying enough throughout the year. So i always just try to break even so i dont have to worry about it.
Nude,
Thanks for sharing your story. I know that even in an anonymous forum like this one, revealing personal stories is not easy. If you took offense to my statements about life experiences, I apologize. They were general statements to make a point, nothing more. I'll tell you my story so you know where I am coming from.
I was raised by a single parent, and as is frequent in these cases, life was not always easy. There were times when we received private charities and government aid. My mother was always grateful, when you have next to nothing, a little help goes a long way. I can tell you that, not for a second, were we satisfied to be poor and looking around for the next handout. And every single poor person I've ever known was the same way. They wanted better for themselves and their children and worked hard to achieve that. I do very well now. I have a nice 3000+ sq ft house in a nice part of OC and I spend less than 5% of my income on housing cost. I am one of those wealthy folks that the liberals presumably rail against. I worked incredibly hard to get to where I am today, frequently putting in 100+ hr work weeks. But I also know that it wasn't just my hard work alone. I was fortunate to have won the genetic jackpot to be able to do what I do very well, I had a supportive family, mentors who I could look up to, various grants, scholarships and aids that made it possible for me get a good education, and I was born in a place and time where upward mobility is possible. I feel blessed and lucky. But I remember what it was like to be on the other end. So I give back. My wife and I give at least 15% of our income to charities annually. But I realize that I am just one person. I can give to charities till the cows come home but in order to effect lasting, fundamental changes, we have to change how the government responds to it's people. By that I mean that I want the government to be responsive to ALL its citizens. I don't want politicians to give lip service to the bulk of their constituents then turn around and serve the people from whom the next campaign dollar is most easily obtained. I want my nanny's and my boy's school teacher's voices to have as much impact as the voice of the big corporations and the wealthy. I believe if that happens, we will have a much more progressive and populist government. And issues like universal health care would be a foregone conclusion. After all, poll after poll clearly shows that significant majority of Americans are in favor of it. It seems to me that the middle class, as well as the poor has been hammered by the relative conservative policies of the last 25 years.
You accused me of cherry picking data to support my views. Of course I did. I expect you did too. We are not writing a comprehensive thesis to include both sides of the issue, we are having a debate in a limited forum. We would be foolish to include data that supported the other person's argument. I cherry picked to the extent that it was the first line of the first table that I opened in the link you provided and it conveniently seemed to support my point. In truth, I am sure that if I spent enough time on that site and other similar sites, I will found ample evidence for both sides of the argument. Not many things in life are black and white. You are obviously a bright guy, and you seems very familiar with the minutia of state of our country's welfare system. My opinions on the matter is base almost entirely on empirical evidence. And I know success and failure can be in the eye of the beholder. If you have ideas about how we can improve the system I'd like to hear it. I know there is a segment of the population where culture of poverty has gained traction and the cycle seems unbreakable. I don't have any idea how to solve that. But, I don't think giving up on them is the right solution. And I certainly don't want to penalize the folks who truly need the state's help because I can't get over the fact that we are wasting some of our money feeding this poverty cycle without a clear solution.
Anyway, best of luck to you and your family. I know all too well what it is like to have a serious medical condition in the family.
Thanks for sharing your story. I know that even in an anonymous forum like this one, revealing personal stories is not easy. If you took offense to my statements about life experiences, I apologize. They were general statements to make a point, nothing more. I'll tell you my story so you know where I am coming from.
I was raised by a single parent, and as is frequent in these cases, life was not always easy. There were times when we received private charities and government aid. My mother was always grateful, when you have next to nothing, a little help goes a long way. I can tell you that, not for a second, were we satisfied to be poor and looking around for the next handout. And every single poor person I've ever known was the same way. They wanted better for themselves and their children and worked hard to achieve that. I do very well now. I have a nice 3000+ sq ft house in a nice part of OC and I spend less than 5% of my income on housing cost. I am one of those wealthy folks that the liberals presumably rail against. I worked incredibly hard to get to where I am today, frequently putting in 100+ hr work weeks. But I also know that it wasn't just my hard work alone. I was fortunate to have won the genetic jackpot to be able to do what I do very well, I had a supportive family, mentors who I could look up to, various grants, scholarships and aids that made it possible for me get a good education, and I was born in a place and time where upward mobility is possible. I feel blessed and lucky. But I remember what it was like to be on the other end. So I give back. My wife and I give at least 15% of our income to charities annually. But I realize that I am just one person. I can give to charities till the cows come home but in order to effect lasting, fundamental changes, we have to change how the government responds to it's people. By that I mean that I want the government to be responsive to ALL its citizens. I don't want politicians to give lip service to the bulk of their constituents then turn around and serve the people from whom the next campaign dollar is most easily obtained. I want my nanny's and my boy's school teacher's voices to have as much impact as the voice of the big corporations and the wealthy. I believe if that happens, we will have a much more progressive and populist government. And issues like universal health care would be a foregone conclusion. After all, poll after poll clearly shows that significant majority of Americans are in favor of it. It seems to me that the middle class, as well as the poor has been hammered by the relative conservative policies of the last 25 years.
You accused me of cherry picking data to support my views. Of course I did. I expect you did too. We are not writing a comprehensive thesis to include both sides of the issue, we are having a debate in a limited forum. We would be foolish to include data that supported the other person's argument. I cherry picked to the extent that it was the first line of the first table that I opened in the link you provided and it conveniently seemed to support my point. In truth, I am sure that if I spent enough time on that site and other similar sites, I will found ample evidence for both sides of the argument. Not many things in life are black and white. You are obviously a bright guy, and you seems very familiar with the minutia of state of our country's welfare system. My opinions on the matter is base almost entirely on empirical evidence. And I know success and failure can be in the eye of the beholder. If you have ideas about how we can improve the system I'd like to hear it. I know there is a segment of the population where culture of poverty has gained traction and the cycle seems unbreakable. I don't have any idea how to solve that. But, I don't think giving up on them is the right solution. And I certainly don't want to penalize the folks who truly need the state's help because I can't get over the fact that we are wasting some of our money feeding this poverty cycle without a clear solution.
Anyway, best of luck to you and your family. I know all too well what it is like to have a serious medical condition in the family.