there goes the park, great

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
[quote author="MojoJD" date=1250206256]bkshopr, I know the requirements for affordable housing development. My comment was that the idea offends me. Why force the price of a house down to let someone live someplace they otherwise could not? I'd like to apply for an affordable 5 story beach house on a cliff in south newport, price capped at 400,000. Where is my program?



Giving someone something they didnt work to earn almost always ensures a lack of respect for the gift. (yes, its a gift). It also reduces availability on the market for normal buyers. I'm sick of god damned handouts.</blockquote>


That's good in theory, but people who work in the stores and restaurants you frequent have to live somewhere. One could argue that those jobs should go to high school students, but the only problem with that is Irvine high school students are too busy studying and doing extra curricular activities to have a minimum wage cashier job. There are lots of other jobs where the pay is so low that they can't afford the $1400 or so market rate rent and making people drive from moreno valley to irvine does no one any good.
 
At the expense of others who saved wisely? or worked their ass off in school to get scholarships and advanced degrees? This "helping hand" also disadvantages others. I'll give a helping hand on my terms, thank you. And I'm sorry, the LUXURY of living in a nic<strong><em>er</em></strong> home, in a nic<strong><em>er</em></strong> location is not exactly the same thing as saving starving children.



Whats next, affordable sports car programs? Just so everyone can feel good about themselves? How about government controlled Polynesian vacation rates?
 
[quote author="ABC123" date=1250206651]

That's good in theory, but people who work in the stores and restaurants you frequent have to live somewhere. One could argue that those jobs should go to high school students, but the only problem with that is Irvine high school students are too busy studying and doing extra curricular activities to have a minimum wage cashier job. There are lots of other jobs where the pay is so low that they can't afford the $1400 or so market rate rent and making people drive from moreno valley to irvine does no one any good.</blockquote>


A low-income <strong>apartment </strong>complex is less bothersome to me. I take specific issue with price-controlled homes.
 
[quote author="MojoJD" date=1250206911]At the expense of others who saved wisely? or worked their ass off in school to get scholarships and advanced degrees? This "helping hand" also disadvantages others. I'll give a helping hand on my terms, thank you. And I'm sorry, the LUXURY of living in a nic<strong><em>er</em></strong> home, in a nic<strong><em>er</em></strong> location is not exactly the same thing as saving starving children.



Whats next, affordable sports car programs? Just so everyone can feel good about themselves? How about government controlled Polynesian vacation rates?</blockquote>


You think you're the only one paying taxes? There are millionaires and billionaires who pay more taxes than you. Additionally, they help out financially to charitable organizations. Yet, they don't bitch about the poor. You pay what? A few thousands in taxes annually? Do you know in the bigger scheme of things, your thousands in taxes look like pennies. Give me a freaking break with your pompous attitude.
 
Sorry, but you are just speculating on what "the rich" do and do not bitch about. Some contribute, and some do NOT. Further, that whole point is irrelevant. I am not against all government subsidization and help-out programs. I too contribute to charitable organizations and pay ridiculous taxes. <strong>I simply am staunchly against this particular program</strong>.
 
I don't think MojoJD is against helping out his fellow man... and I see his point.

<blockquote>

A low-income <strong>apartment</strong> complex is less bothersome to me. I take specific issue with price-controlled homes.

</blockquote>
For affordable houses to buy, there are areas just outside of Irvine that certainly fall into that price point for the low income wage earners.



Price-controlled housing has its own issues. Usually the people who live there end up wanting to see the same gains from sales as the rest of the real estate around them, but get a pass on minimizing the losses. This particular issue came up for some homes in Huntington Beach where the owners wanted the price restrictions lifted... which just kills the idea of affordable housing.
 
[quote author="MojoJD" date=1250207027][quote author="ABC123" date=1250206651]

That's good in theory, but people who work in the stores and restaurants you frequent have to live somewhere. One could argue that those jobs should go to high school students, but the only problem with that is Irvine high school students are too busy studying and doing extra curricular activities to have a minimum wage cashier job. There are lots of other jobs where the pay is so low that they can't afford the $1400 or so market rate rent and making people drive from moreno valley to irvine does no one any good.</blockquote>


A low-income <strong>apartment </strong>complex is less bothersome to me. I take specific issue with price-controlled homes.</blockquote>


i'll play the role of snob here and say i disagree with both. the argument that people should be able to live where they work doesn't make sense to me. cost of living should be different from place to place.
 
[quote author="reason" date=1250207183]

You think you're the only one paying taxes? There are millionaires and billionaires who pay more taxes than you. Additionally, they help out financially to charitable organizations. Yet, they don't bitch about the poor. You pay what? A few thousands in taxes annually? Do you know in the bigger scheme of things, your thousands in taxes look like pennies. Give me a freaking break with your pompous attitude.</blockquote>


billionaires are free to do with their money as they wish. billionaires can give away their fortunes and accept any add'l tax burden that the govt can dish out. just because the majority of people can't afford to play robin hood doesn't make them any less caring.
 
Are you saying that none of the people in

<a href="http://irvinehomes.freedomblogging.com/2009/07/28/affordable-irvine-community-celebrates-grand-opening/">this article</a> deserve to live in Irvine? They should all move to Santa Ana, right, since they didn't work hard enough in life and continue to be slackers. Irvine should only be filled with lawyers, mortgage brokers, pharmaceutical sales reps, plastic surgeons, and politicians.



<strong>Affordable Irvine community celebrates grand opening</strong>



City leaders joined residents and affordable housing advocates on Monday to officially celebrate the grand opening of Granite Court, a 71-unit affordable apartment community located on Kelvin Avenue in the Irvine Business Complex area.



The complex consists of 71 apartments ranging in size from 1 to 3 bedrooms. The community is open to families earning between 30 and 60 percent of Orange County?s median income of $86,100. Rents range between $523 to $1,312 per month based on family size and income level.



Residents began moving into the complex in late March, and many say they are grateful for the opportunity to live in Irvine.



Felicia Kong, her husband and their 4 children were previously living in a 1-bedroom apartment in Buena Park, and paying about the same rent as they?re paying for their new 3-bedroom apartment.



?Everyone has a similar story, and we all feel privileged to be here,? Kong said. ?It?s in Irvine, it?s affordable, it?s new, it?s central to everything,? including her husband?s job in Aliso Viejo. ?And it?s a safer, cleaner environment for my kids.?



Built by the nonprofit Jamboree Housing Corporation, the complex features a community area with a fitness room and a computer lab. On-site resident services include homework and tutoring help for kids; ESL classes; financial literacy courses and homeownership preparation.



Claudia Montoya works for an Irvine insurance company, and always dreamed of living in the city, especially because of its reputation for safety. Thanks to the new apartment complex, Montoya, her mother and two young sons were able to make the move from a 1-bedroom duplex in Santa Ana.



?My sons use the computer lab to do their homework and we have good neighbors,? Montoya said. ?I?m using the gym, and I work just five minutes away. It really has changed my lifestyle, and it has been wonderful.?



granite-courtcrop1Laura Archuleta, president of Jamboree Housing, said Granite Court is the nonprofit?s 50th affordable community in California, and demand for such projects is only growing as the economy continues to falter. The $32 million project was originally envisioned to provide affordable workforce housing within the Irvine Business Complex.



?The need for affordable housing is just growing,? Archuleta said. ?With unemployment rates rising, many people can?t afford to pay for market rate rental housing, much less buy a property.?



Interest in Granite Court was so strong that officials had to close the waiting list when it reached 4,000 people, an unprecedented event for a Jamboree project.



Here?s a breakdown of the resident demographics, provided by Jamboree Housing:



* Caucasian: 15%

* Hispanic: 17%

* Asian: 20%

* Middle Eastern: 48%



The average household income is $28,819, and the average household size is 2.9 people. Almost 4 out of 10 residents work in Irvine, and 9 percent of residents are retired. Residents work as cashiers, truck drivers, dental assistants, day care providers, security guards, handymen, church pastors and travel agents, among other job titles.



Future Jamboree Housing projects include The Arbor at Woodbury, which will start leasing in Spring 2010; and a 135-unit complex in the fledgling Irvine community of Stonegate. That project is scheduled to break ground by summer 2010, and open by Fall 2011. Jamboree Housing built three other affordable housing complexes in Irvine, including The Meadows mobile home park and the Montecito Vista complex near Beckman High School.



To get on the interest list for these and other and future developments, visit Jamboree Housing Corp.?s website.
 
Again, while I am less bothered by low-income apartments, ... yeah, sure. Why shouldnt they have to live in Santa Ana?



I am a citizen of the same country/state/county/city. Why do I not have access to the same privileges as these people? This is unequal treatment. I also want to pay $800 bucks a month for a new apartment with a gym.
 
[quote author="acpme" date=1250209285][quote author="reason" date=1250207183]

You think you're the only one paying taxes? There are millionaires and billionaires who pay more taxes than you. Additionally, they help out financially to charitable organizations. Yet, they don't bitch about the poor. You pay what? A few thousands in taxes annually? Do you know in the bigger scheme of things, your thousands in taxes look like pennies. Give me a freaking break with your pompous attitude.</blockquote>


billionaires are free to do with their money as they wish. billionaires can give away their fortunes and accept any add'l tax burden that the govt can dish out. just because the majority of people can't afford to play robin hood doesn't make them any less caring.</blockquote>


I was making a point in using 'millionaires/billionaires'. The intent was that everyone pay taxes. Everyone works hard in their own personal endeavors. But you can not use this reasoning to go against helping those less fortunate.



But I will have to say I was alittle harsh in my response to MojoJD. I had alittle too much caffeine this morning. =)
 
[quote author="MojoJD" date=1250212431]Again, while I am less bothered by low-income apartments, ... yeah, sure. Why shouldnt they have to live in Santa Ana?



I am a citizen of the same country/state/county/city. Why do I not have access to the same privileges as these people? This is unequal treatment. I also want to pay $800 bucks a month for a new apartment with a gym.</blockquote>


Mojo,



I think there's an income requirement. Those who qualify make very little. I called to see if I qualify and failed. Hahaha!



$800/mo?....No, I heard some units were going for $300/mo.
 
Yeah, but the problem is that when you start delving into "less fortunate" its NEVER cut and dry. My parents were "less fortunate", but both independently overcame incredible adversity with zero handouts, just making the hard decisions and being diligent in their respective endeavors. They have friends from childhood who settled, took the easy way through life, and now remain "less fortunate," even though they could now be described as "working hard every day just to get by". There are always turning points, and getting a free handout is not going to fix anything.



I'd rather pay for scholarship programs, continuing education, even public works infrastructure projects to keep people employed. Give people tools and means to do things themselves. You cannot remove class advantage by tapping a select few on the head for special privileges. You have to create equal access to the tools to succeed, and work harder to spread awareness of the availability and potential of those tools.



edit: $300 a month?!!? grrrrrrrr
 
when it comes to issues like this we have to try to separate emotion from objectiveness. esp in california with the our referendum system, the handouts never end because we all get guilted into supporting well-intended but poorly thought-out ideas. but not to stray too far off the subject, affordable housing, rent control, low-income housing, whatever you want to call it - it's simply an artificial ceiling on prices for an arbitrary group of people... and it usually ends up causing more inequality in the long run. even <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/07/opinion/reckonings-a-rent-affair.html">paul krugman hates it</a> and as liberal-minded an economist gets.



artificial ceilings on housing costs always lead to a more segregated population of haves and have-nots. generations of rent control in manhattan means most of the people living their are either big swinging d*cks... or waiting tables. the middle class has no option but to be part of the dreaded bridge and tunnel crowd. apartment rents in nyc never come down and it's not for lack of supply. commercial rents, however, rise and fall as you would expect with the changes in the economic cycle and job mkt.



keep in mind that irvine wasn't always a premium community that prices people out. the old bastions of wealth in central OC were along the coast and in the foothills around vp/orange/tustin. even as recently as the 90s, irvine is where you moved to if you couldn't afford those more desirable neighborhoods to the north and south. over time (and with our own bkshopr's help?) irvine and TIC perfected a product for the up-and-coming families of OC.



if you simply allowed everyone that wanted to live in newport beach a way to do so, irvine wouldn't be what it is today. an acctg mgr working at say, pimco in newport beach, making $100k/yr, might not have been able to afford the tony neighborhoods surrounding newport center. so he/she ended up in irvine and became part of the growing upper middle class community there. these people and their children improved the reputation of the local schools and university, that in turn drew/developed new businesses to the city, like a broadcom, for example.



fast forward to today and maybe the engineer at broadcom making $100k/yr is now unable to afford irvine. he/she moves to a neighboring community and the cycle repeats itself. i know we joke around about the VOC and some of the south county communities, but those are really signs of progress for the greater OC area. we should all hope VOC and legacy projects are a success because it'll just mean more and more improvement to the communities westward.
 
[quote author="acpme" date=1250217414]

artificial ceilings on housing costs always lead to a more segregated population of haves and have-nots. generations of rent control in manhattan means most of the people living their are either big swinging d*cks... or waiting tables. the middle class has no option but to be part of the dreaded bridge and tunnel crowd. apartment rents in nyc never come down and it's not for lack of supply. commercial rents, however, rise and fall as you would expect with the changes in the economic cycle and job mkt.

</blockquote>


Therre's a big difference between putting a ceiling on prices and using taxpayer dollars to subsidize housing for a select group of people. I agree the former is bad, but the latter is significantly worse.
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1250218398]

Therre's a big difference between putting a ceiling on prices and using taxpayer dollars to subsidize housing for a select group of people. I agree the former is bad, but the latter is significantly worse.</blockquote>


i... agree...

...with asianinvasion?? :bug:



<img src="http://antzinpantz.com/kns/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/whenpigsfly.jpg" alt="" />
 
Part of the reason for high rents is governmental regulation (IE, zoning laws that restrict density, prohibit development in certain locations, and add to costs). That is, imagine if anybody could build an apartment building as tall as they wanted to anywhere they wanted to, with no public hearings, sucking up to politicians (via campaign donations), or similar costs. Obviously, the supply of housing would increase, which, means prices would decrease, assuming demand is steady.



Now, this doesn't quite apply to Irvine specifically, since the main restriction on supply is by the private Irvine Corporation holding back land, but it is valid in general, especially in large, dense cities.



So, we are having a government requirement clean up a mess that, in part, is caused by the government in the first place. Thing is, zoning laws are mostly a local issue, and therefore are hard to repeal. Basically, this requirement is the Feds trying to clean up the local's mess.
 
When I was in college I took income tax class that covered the affordable housing tax benefits. If you look at the tax code you will see the biggest benefactors of affordable housing projects is definitively not the low income residents. Corporations and wealthy individuals recoup almost all there costs for these developments through the government. I know a tax attorney that specializes in this area. He says it so competitive get in on these huge tax breaks because it is such a give away. I think this could be one of the most aggressive tax breaks there are for the wealthy.
 
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