irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I guess I need to get a 3000 sft house to get into the 1% $100+ electric bill club. 
Sungevity
- Thread starter ps99472
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
One of my other co-workers lives in the IE and his family stays home all day. His bill is $500-$700 a month in their >3,500 sq. ft. home. I almost fainted when he told me that. I told him he needs to go solar and he said he cannot because of the direction and angle of the roof line of his house.
He did tell me occasionally when he would come home, he would see a bedroom window open and the AC cranking away. His wife or kids would say sorry but then the same thing would happen a few weeks later.
After hearing that, I am not complaining about my $100 bill too much.
Do you know if you are running a two speed or single speed pump for your pool? I have a two speed pump for my in ground spa and run it on low speed for filtering a few hours a day but kick it in high speed for when I want bubbles.
When I had to have the pump rebuilt a while back, the service guy said it is good I have the two speed pump for electricity savings. He said all spa's and pools should have two speed pumps for power savings but since two speed motors are more expensive, most builders and pool companies opt for the single speed.
I recall my bill only dropped about $10 a month during the time I had my motor rebuilt and spa drained which took a little over a month (only because I procrastinated three weeks to call the repair guy).
Yes, we installed solar panels going on three years ago. Bought them outright. Our electric bill runs $0.91 a month. That's with the AC set to 75 24x7, and the laundry running a load or two a day and the nanny and child home during the day.
Our TOC per KwH is about 10 cents/kwh produced. Your cost for my solar panels is about 25 cents/Kwh courtesy of rebates and tax credits on the install.
It's a bit of a racket, but over-all the electric bills are only going to go up due to the mandate for set levels of green production.
Overall net we are a small net producers, which they credit out at the end of the year at something like 4 cents/kWh. The 0.91cent charge thing is some annoying distribution charge thing that doesn't cancel out, pretty stupid to have a net 70 kwH generated for the month with a credit at minimum charge and then still have a 'bill' of 0.91 cents. The credit floats for later consumption on net usage months and gets zero'd out annually.
Also don't forget that if you don't lease the setup, you do need to have periodic service, the suggestion is annually, consists of cleaning the panels and checking the inverter and connections. Typical charges are highly varied, but much like calling any 'specialized' electrician out. Expect about $200.
If you lease, keep in mind that the lease survives you selling the house and the new buyers need to assume the lease, buy the lease out or you need to buy the lease out. Make sure the terms are documented before you install.
qwerty, thanks for the opinion, but could you further elaborate why you believe it to be "a bad deal any way you slice it"?
Like I said, there was something about this whole process that didn't feel right, so we are going to decline going solar. However, I'm interested to hear your rationale for why you believe solar is a bad deal. Thanks!
you pretty much answered the negatives yourself. the biggest things in my opinion are the following:
-Payback period is way too long (if purchased), its horrible if you lease it
- for most people solar is probably more of a headache (panels on your roof, maintenance, failure, etc) so there will be some impact on resale. potential assumption of lease/early termination fee
solar is a good idea, much like electric cars. the technology is not ready for primetime yet though. i think it will get there, but not now.
davenlei
New member
bones said:
One of my other co-workers lives in the IE and his family stays home all day. His bill is $500-$700 a month in their >3,500 sq. ft. home. I almost fainted when he told me that. I told him he needs to go solar and he said he cannot because of the direction and angle of the roof line of his house.
He did tell me occasionally when he would come home, he would see a bedroom window open and the AC cranking away. His wife or kids would say sorry but then the same thing would happen a few weeks later.
After hearing that, I am not complaining about my $100 bill too much.
What info do you need to provide these companies in order to get a quote?
Our electricity bill ranges from $135 in the winter months and around $200 in the summer (even then, we only ran the A/C a few days when it was unbearably hot). We had all of our interior can lights changed out to LED's, and we try to not leave lights/TV's/computers, etc. on when not in use.
I suspect that the culprit for our high electricity bill is our pool. Even w/ the pool, I try to limit running the pool pump for no more than 2.5 hours a day (usually around noon to 2:30). Although everything that I've seen online has suggested running it for about 6 hours/day, I have not seen any negative effect as far as pool clarity goes when I've limited running the pool pump to 2.5 hours.
I'm curious to know how much it would cost us to have solar installed (whether own or lease), whether it makes sense for us to have solar installed, and whether, by installing solar, we'd be able to run our A/C more often in the summer rather than suffering through the heat until it becomes unbearable. However, I also don't want to receive endless calls/emails/letters from any of these companies.
Lastly, other than Sungevity, are there any other companies that any of you would recommend?
Our electricity bill ranges from $135 in the winter months and around $200 in the summer (even then, we only ran the A/C a few days when it was unbearably hot). We had all of our interior can lights changed out to LED's, and we try to not leave lights/TV's/computers, etc. on when not in use.
I suspect that the culprit for our high electricity bill is our pool. Even w/ the pool, I try to limit running the pool pump for no more than 2.5 hours a day (usually around noon to 2:30). Although everything that I've seen online has suggested running it for about 6 hours/day, I have not seen any negative effect as far as pool clarity goes when I've limited running the pool pump to 2.5 hours.
I'm curious to know how much it would cost us to have solar installed (whether own or lease), whether it makes sense for us to have solar installed, and whether, by installing solar, we'd be able to run our A/C more often in the summer rather than suffering through the heat until it becomes unbearable. However, I also don't want to receive endless calls/emails/letters from any of these companies.
Lastly, other than Sungevity, are there any other companies that any of you would recommend?
davenlei
New member
RibEye said:
Do you know if you are running a two speed or single speed pump for your pool? I have a two speed pump for my in ground spa and run it on low speed for filtering a few hours a day but kick it in high speed for when I want bubbles.
When I had to have the pump rebuilt a while back, the service guy said it is good I have the two speed pump for electricity savings. He said all spa's and pools should have two speed pumps for power savings but since two speed motors are more expensive, most builders and pool companies opt for the single speed.
I recall my bill only dropped about $10 a month during the time I had my motor rebuilt and spa drained which took a little over a month (only because I procrastinated three weeks to call the repair guy).
nosuchreality
Well-known member
ps9 said:
Yes, we installed solar panels going on three years ago. Bought them outright. Our electric bill runs $0.91 a month. That's with the AC set to 75 24x7, and the laundry running a load or two a day and the nanny and child home during the day.
Our TOC per KwH is about 10 cents/kwh produced. Your cost for my solar panels is about 25 cents/Kwh courtesy of rebates and tax credits on the install.
It's a bit of a racket, but over-all the electric bills are only going to go up due to the mandate for set levels of green production.
Overall net we are a small net producers, which they credit out at the end of the year at something like 4 cents/kWh. The 0.91cent charge thing is some annoying distribution charge thing that doesn't cancel out, pretty stupid to have a net 70 kwH generated for the month with a credit at minimum charge and then still have a 'bill' of 0.91 cents. The credit floats for later consumption on net usage months and gets zero'd out annually.
Also don't forget that if you don't lease the setup, you do need to have periodic service, the suggestion is annually, consists of cleaning the panels and checking the inverter and connections. Typical charges are highly varied, but much like calling any 'specialized' electrician out. Expect about $200.
If you lease, keep in mind that the lease survives you selling the house and the new buyers need to assume the lease, buy the lease out or you need to buy the lease out. Make sure the terms are documented before you install.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I also hear that when you lease, you don't get the tax credits/rebates.
I went ahead and contacted Sungevity to get an estimate of what my solar options were and whether it made sense for us.
The process went a bit like this:
(1) fill out some information online
(2) speak to a Sungevity associate for 10-15 minutes to get some more information on your home, including your energy usage for the past year (have your Edison bill handy to provide the kwh usage)
(3) set up a separate appointment to speak to another Sungevity associate regarding your options
(4) a 30-60 minute phone appointment w/ Sungevity to go over your options (which is nothing more than a long-sales pitch, with powerpoint slides included).
At the end of the day, I was given these options:
6.5 kw system, with an annual output of 10,017 kwh per year. Sungevity guarantees 95% of that amount, so if my system does not produce 9,516.15, I get a check from Sungevity for, I believe, 14 cents/kwh under 9516.15.
If, at year end, I am a net energy producer, I can either have Edison pay me back at a rate of 4 cents/kwh or roll those credits into the following year.
If I do a $0 down lease, it's $169/mo for a 20-year lease. Comes out to be about $40K over the life of the lease.
If I do a pre-pay lease, it's about $17K but no additional costs
If I purchase, it's about $20K, after all of the gov't credits, but I'd still be responsible for my own maintenance.
Assuming that electricity rates continue to go up, a my friend ran the numbers and determined that, under the pre-pay lease, I'd probably break even around 10-12 years, which isn't terrible. However, I had some concerns that the Sungevity guy really tried to avoid answering:
(1) the system that they designed presumes energy usage based on what we've been doing, but what if we start running our pool from 2 hours/day to 8 hours/day? What if we set our thermostat in the summers to 65 degrees such that that A/C runs much more often? Wouldn't the solar system then not produce enough energy such that we'd end up having an electricity bill? Wouldn't it make sense to have a higher capacity system? We've been very conservative with our energy use and one of the reasons we considered solar was that we would like to be able to use some of our appliances more without constant fear of energy bills.
The guy basically would not/could not answer that question.
(2) what happens if we have to move? Will we need to buy out the lease? Have the new owner assume the lease?
The guy kept emphasizing the increased value of the home, that a person looking at a home w/ solar would have no reason to not assume the lease, etc. After pushing him further, he admitted that, if the new owner refused to assume the lease, I'd have to buy it out at some nebulous contracted amount (which would be in the lease)
(3) what happens if Sungevity goes out of business? If we do the prepay lease, who then services our unit? Why would a company that purchases the assets of Sungevity (assuming this happens) want to bother servicing the lease, especially if we pre-pay the lease (hence, no future cash flows from leases)? Will Sungevity's creditors, or this new buyer, come to our house and rip these panels off of our roof?
He basically said that the assets of Sungevity are in (1) the cash flows from lease and (2) the depreciation that they can write off on the solar panels, so even in a pre-pay situation, the depreciation is valuable enough that a new buyer (again, assuming someone buys Sungevity) would have no reason not to continue servicing the leases. Again, this seemed a bit flimsy of an argument to me.
(4) what if our solar panels are damaged?
If it's damaged and not through "gross negligence," (wind, trees, natural disasters, etc.), then Sungevity will repair/replace. He described gross negligence as something I did to damage the panels. However, when I asked - what if my neighbors' kids are playing baseball and their ball hit and broke a panel, is that considered "gross negligence"?
His response was very vague, but it sounded like Sungevity MIGHT consider that to be gross negligence such that it would not service or repair the broken panel.
In conclusion, the idea of a 10-12 year breakeven sounded pretty good, but there was something about the whole process, and about Sungevity, that just threw me for a loop, and which makes me hesitant to make the jump.
The process went a bit like this:
(1) fill out some information online
(2) speak to a Sungevity associate for 10-15 minutes to get some more information on your home, including your energy usage for the past year (have your Edison bill handy to provide the kwh usage)
(3) set up a separate appointment to speak to another Sungevity associate regarding your options
(4) a 30-60 minute phone appointment w/ Sungevity to go over your options (which is nothing more than a long-sales pitch, with powerpoint slides included).
At the end of the day, I was given these options:
6.5 kw system, with an annual output of 10,017 kwh per year. Sungevity guarantees 95% of that amount, so if my system does not produce 9,516.15, I get a check from Sungevity for, I believe, 14 cents/kwh under 9516.15.
If, at year end, I am a net energy producer, I can either have Edison pay me back at a rate of 4 cents/kwh or roll those credits into the following year.
If I do a $0 down lease, it's $169/mo for a 20-year lease. Comes out to be about $40K over the life of the lease.
If I do a pre-pay lease, it's about $17K but no additional costs
If I purchase, it's about $20K, after all of the gov't credits, but I'd still be responsible for my own maintenance.
Assuming that electricity rates continue to go up, a my friend ran the numbers and determined that, under the pre-pay lease, I'd probably break even around 10-12 years, which isn't terrible. However, I had some concerns that the Sungevity guy really tried to avoid answering:
(1) the system that they designed presumes energy usage based on what we've been doing, but what if we start running our pool from 2 hours/day to 8 hours/day? What if we set our thermostat in the summers to 65 degrees such that that A/C runs much more often? Wouldn't the solar system then not produce enough energy such that we'd end up having an electricity bill? Wouldn't it make sense to have a higher capacity system? We've been very conservative with our energy use and one of the reasons we considered solar was that we would like to be able to use some of our appliances more without constant fear of energy bills.
The guy basically would not/could not answer that question.
(2) what happens if we have to move? Will we need to buy out the lease? Have the new owner assume the lease?
The guy kept emphasizing the increased value of the home, that a person looking at a home w/ solar would have no reason to not assume the lease, etc. After pushing him further, he admitted that, if the new owner refused to assume the lease, I'd have to buy it out at some nebulous contracted amount (which would be in the lease)
(3) what happens if Sungevity goes out of business? If we do the prepay lease, who then services our unit? Why would a company that purchases the assets of Sungevity (assuming this happens) want to bother servicing the lease, especially if we pre-pay the lease (hence, no future cash flows from leases)? Will Sungevity's creditors, or this new buyer, come to our house and rip these panels off of our roof?
He basically said that the assets of Sungevity are in (1) the cash flows from lease and (2) the depreciation that they can write off on the solar panels, so even in a pre-pay situation, the depreciation is valuable enough that a new buyer (again, assuming someone buys Sungevity) would have no reason not to continue servicing the leases. Again, this seemed a bit flimsy of an argument to me.
(4) what if our solar panels are damaged?
If it's damaged and not through "gross negligence," (wind, trees, natural disasters, etc.), then Sungevity will repair/replace. He described gross negligence as something I did to damage the panels. However, when I asked - what if my neighbors' kids are playing baseball and their ball hit and broke a panel, is that considered "gross negligence"?
His response was very vague, but it sounded like Sungevity MIGHT consider that to be gross negligence such that it would not service or repair the broken panel.
In conclusion, the idea of a 10-12 year breakeven sounded pretty good, but there was something about the whole process, and about Sungevity, that just threw me for a loop, and which makes me hesitant to make the jump.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
From the people I know who've gone solar, they've purchased due to the issues you mentioned above.
The issue is the maintenance/repairs like you mentioned, but I wonder if you can get that covered under a home warranty.
The issue is the maintenance/repairs like you mentioned, but I wonder if you can get that covered under a home warranty.
qwerty said:
qwerty, thanks for the opinion, but could you further elaborate why you believe it to be "a bad deal any way you slice it"?
Like I said, there was something about this whole process that didn't feel right, so we are going to decline going solar. However, I'm interested to hear your rationale for why you believe solar is a bad deal. Thanks!
qwerty
Well-known member
RibEye said:
you pretty much answered the negatives yourself. the biggest things in my opinion are the following:
-Payback period is way too long (if purchased), its horrible if you lease it
- for most people solar is probably more of a headache (panels on your roof, maintenance, failure, etc) so there will be some impact on resale. potential assumption of lease/early termination fee
solar is a good idea, much like electric cars. the technology is not ready for primetime yet though. i think it will get there, but not now.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I feel like I'm in New York City.
If there was a way to make cable and Internet free... I would buy that.
If there was a way to make cable and Internet free... I would buy that.