Solar Installation During Construction vs Retrofit

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eyephone said:
USCTrojanCPA said:
I'm going to get a quote from Sunlux and Sunpower.
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Amazon Is The Second Company To Report Tesla Solar Panel Fire

Key Background: Tesla?s embattled solar business has been plagued by plunging sales, production delays and layoffs since CEO Elon Musk acquired solar company SolarCity for $2.6 billion in 2016.

Amazon is joining Walmart in pointing the finger at Tesla solar panels for fires on the roofs of their facilities in what is yet another hiccup for Tesla?s embattled solar business.

Musk hasn?t tweeted about the Walmart or Amazon complaints, but instead announced a revamped pricing plan in an effort to boost the slowing solar panel business. The new pricing model allows residents in six states to rent solar power systems starting at $50 a month ($65 a month in California) instead of buying.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachel...ced-tesla-solar-panel-roof-fire/#4466fba872c2

$50 -$65 a month to rent solar panels? I told you that prices will eventually drop. Cancel anytime with a $1500 fee.
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If you guys really want to save money in your electricity bill, consider buying a home (next time you're buying) where the sun doesn't directly hit you. Southeast is the best. It doesn't get too cold nor too hot. Northwest is the worst. If the home's window is at northwest, expect the hottest in summer and coldest in winter therefore using AC and heater all day would be inevitable. Of course some homes face multiple directions, but your main living area or where you sleep should face southeast. It also tends to brighten the home if you prefer that.


 
irvinehomeowner said:
Just like the ARM, qwerty will eventually cut the cord and go solar... esp once he sees that $300 SCE bill every month. :)
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Just paid my SCE bill today. $219 - I get that letter from them that tells me I use like 35% more energy than my neighbors. I love my AC. Small price to pay for comfort.
 
Mety said:
If you guys really want to save money in your electricity bill, consider buying a home (next time you're buying) where the sun doesn't directly hit you. Southeast is the best. It doesn't get too cold nor too hot. Northwest is the worst. If the home's window is at northwest, expect the hottest in summer and coldest in winter therefore using AC and heater all day would be inevitable. Of course some homes face multiple directions, but your main living area or where you sleep should face southeast. It also tends to brighten the home if you prefer that.
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I hear in Long Beach it?s pretty breezy. Also, you don?t have to turn on the AC. You save money on electricity. Just don?t mind the other things that go down there.
 
eyephone said:
Mety said:
If you guys really want to save money in your electricity bill, consider buying a home (next time you're buying) where the sun doesn't directly hit you. Southeast is the best. It doesn't get too cold nor too hot. Northwest is the worst. If the home's window is at northwest, expect the hottest in summer and coldest in winter therefore using AC and heater all day would be inevitable. Of course some homes face multiple directions, but your main living area or where you sleep should face southeast. It also tends to brighten the home if you prefer that.
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I hear in Long Beach is pretty breezy. (Don?t habe to turn on the AC)

;D
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Beach areas usually don't have AC. Manhattan Beach is probably the most expensive hood in west coast, but those $2m+ houses don't have AC units. Some folks installed just recently.
 
zubs said:
Cornflakes said:
USCTrojanCPA said:
I'm going to get a quote from Sunlux and Sunpower.
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I got $2.90 per watt quote for sunpower 12 kW system here in SD. Let's compare the quotes once you have it.
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12kW system is huge.  $2.90 seems really high.  Be sure you are getting an enphase micro inverter.  If they are quoting solar edge string inverter, then the quote should be lower.  Apparantly, 95% of solar industry uses enphase or solaredge. 


We are approaching the back end of 2019.  These solar companies are getting really busy.  I think solar companies are quoting high because they got too much business.
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Agree with your assessment. 12kW is huge system and there should be better price. The $2.90 quote is for the relatively inferior sunpower panels which are comparable to LG/Panasonic. Sunpower quote is 12% higher than LG/Panasonic.

For their premium panels X-series, the quote is 18% higher than LG/Panasonic. I think that X-series is 4-5% more efficient, rest of the premium is for the brand.

I do agree that installers are quoting high as there is an end of year frenzy.
 
My solar installer told me as long as you pay 10% of the project before DEC 31, 2019, you can still get the 30% tax credit.
So you don't even need to have it installed in 2019.  You just have to pay 10% down.
 
zubs said:
My solar installer told me as long as you pay 10% of the project before DEC 31, 2019, you can still get the 30% tax credit.
So you don't even need to have it installed in 2019.  You just have to pay 10% down.
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Who did you buy it from? Can I have the contact info?
 
I used energysage.com to have a bunch of solar companies bid on my project.
Then I picked infinity solar.

Energysage will give you a $100 amazon gift card, and also some kind of panasonic $250 rebate if you ask for those panels.  Those panels are 330 watt/panel.  Some companies will quote you the LG panel which is 375 watt.

I just received my amazon gift card, and am now waiting for the $250 rebate.


When I got the bids back in May, there were about 8 companies fighting for my business.  If you use energysage today, tell me how it goes.  The average back in May was $2.70/watt.  I asked them to do better and got it.  Now it's SEP, I dunno what the market is like.


energysage will assume your roofing tiles are heavy duty enough to hold solar panels.  If they are not, you will have to pay more.
Your roofing tile will have to be over 10LBS.  Any lighter, and they will have to do more work to mount the panels.
 
Compressed-Village said:
zubs said:
My solar installer told me as long as you pay 10% of the project before DEC 31, 2019, you can still get the 30% tax credit.
So you don't even need to have it installed in 2019.  You just have to pay 10% down.
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Who did you buy it from? Can I have the contact info?
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I?m shocked that you are even considering it.
Might as well rent it with no obligation.

Money better spent: Update the kitchen or bathroom at one of your rentals. (But be smart about the update, refinish the cabinets, maybe get granite countertops or other material. )
 
zubs said:
My solar installer told me as long as you pay 10% of the project before DEC 31, 2019, you can still get the 30% tax credit.
So you don't even need to have it installed in 2019.  You just have to pay 10% down.
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safe harbor is 5%, but i'm sure they told you 10% to cover their ass and take a little extra profit on top
 
Compressed-Village said:
zubs said:
My solar installer told me as long as you pay 10% of the project before DEC 31, 2019, you can still get the 30% tax credit.
So you don't even need to have it installed in 2019.  You just have to pay 10% down.
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Who did you buy it from? Can I have the contact info?
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any installer should offer you the same "deal" since it's an irs ruling.  minimum you need to put down is 5% to qualify.

ps. you might find this graph interesting if you're considering plopping down as much as 10% now

REW_SafeHarborGraphV2.png


To harbor or not to harbor?

The buyer of the solar plant, the taxpayer, is the one to answer the question, in the end.  However, in the vast majority of instances the buyer will be the least informed, if not totally uninformed, frequently relying on contractors/developers to inform them, to a fault.  Any developer of a project that might straddle or start after the 2019/2020 gong should debrief the taxpayer on the safe harbor option, and advise outside counsel.

No matter their role, at the deep end of 2019 there will be folks with a brand-new contract in their hands asking themselves how they should decide whether to Safe Harbor, using either method.  If the concern is entirely financial, then here is a question process you may find useful.

Assuming two-dollars per watt as an installed system price, the value of the tax-credit loss to the buyer is approximately $0.08 (eight cents).  To the developer/contractor, it?s approximately a four percent price difference. Do you believe that in the time that separates the end of this year and the time your eventual project will require the delivery of those components, your cost on those same elements might drop by more than eight cents on a per-watt basis?

I called three panel manufacturers with varied countries of fabrication, and none thought an eight cent price drop likely. It would represent a 20 percent drop in current pricing, grosso modo, and there is not enough production efficiency gain or technological breakthrough to mine in the next year for that price drop (One might say that they would have no incentive to state otherwise, but their reasoning has merit). Panels aside, you would have to make the cumulative projections for drops in steel prices, inverter prices, labor prices, transportation prices and all other factors that make up your material costs to determine if you were better off locking-in the 30 percent, or letting fly off with the December 31st calendar page.

There are other questions to ask that go beyond cash-flow projections: What is the taxpayer?s anticipated need to put tax dollars to use at the higher rate, and in what year? What is the cost of capital associated with floating the component purchase until solar savings begin? If using the five percent method, how will the product hold impact the warranty? 
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zubs said:
I used energysage.com to have a bunch of solar companies bid on my project.
Then I picked infinity solar.

Energysage will give you a $100 amazon gift card, and also some kind of panasonic $250 rebate if you ask for those panels.  Those panels are 330 watt/panel.  Some companies will quote you the LG panel which is 375 watt.

I just received my amazon gift card, and am now waiting for the $250 rebate.


When I got the bids back in May, there were about 8 companies fighting for my business.  If you use energysage today, tell me how it goes.  The average back in May was $2.70/watt.  I asked them to do better and got it.  Now it's SEP, I dunno what the market is like.


energysage will assume your roofing tiles are heavy duty enough to hold solar panels.  If they are not, you will have to pay more.
Your roofing tile will have to be over 10LBS.  Any lighter, and they will have to do more work to mount the panels.
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I got $2.72/watt quote for same Panasonic panels. Trying to achieve $2.60. Will settle between the two numbers.

Any particular reason why Pana and not LG?
 
I paid $2.63 / watt. I bargained long and hard with many bidders and no one seemed like they were willing to beat the $2.63 threshold. System size was 10.5 kWh.
 
The internet told me panasonic is more durable than LG.  Example hail.
Is it true...I dunno.  However, the 375 watt/panel was tempting, but the panels are more expensive.


I think not getting the best and not getting the worst is a sound strategy.  Pick the middle to extract the most value.


Talk to Inifinity Solar and talk to Akkord.  He got lower than 2.63.


You also need enphase microinverter.  If it's solaredge, it'll be cheaper.
 
zubs said:
The internet told me panasonic is more durable than LG.  Example hail.
Is it true...I dunno.  However, the 375 watt/panel was tempting, but the panels are more expensive.


I think not getting the best and not getting the worst is a sound strategy.  Pick the middle to extract the most value.


Talk to Inifinity Solar and talk to Akkord.  He got lower than 2.63.
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Sorry I should have clarified, I only negotiated with companies that had lots of reviews on EnergySage. Infinity Solar wasn't on my radar since it only shows 9 reviews.
 
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