Should she stay or should she go?

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[quote author="SoCal78" date=1241905884]It looks to me like you guys are discussing two different things. Stepping up, aren't you talking about working with a dual agent? And awgee is talking about representing one's self. Two different topics.</blockquote>


Yes, Socal, you are correct. And what most folks do not realize is that there is no such thing as dual agency in a residential real estate deal. The listing agent has a signed contract with the seller and is legally contracted to represent the seller's interest. You can call it dual agency, but the seller's agent is legally contracted to represent the seller and has no such obligation to the buyer and may not enter into such obligation with the buyer. It would be like your lawyer representing you and the other party. You can enter into a contract with a person who has a lawyer for representation, but if you do not have legal representation, the other lawyer in no way represents you or your interests, and if you think they do ...











Did you know that until about ten or so years ago, legally the buyer's agent also represented the seller?

What? You say, now you are crazy Awgee.

Look it up yourself.

And do you know why the buyer's agent was contractually obligated to represent the seller?

And why in the real world the buyer's agent still works in the best interest of the seller and not the buyer?
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1241908607][quote author="SoCal78" date=1241905884]It looks to me like you guys are discussing two different things. Stepping up, aren't you talking about working with a dual agent? And awgee is talking about representing one's self. Two different topics.</blockquote>


Yes, Socal, you are correct. And what most folks do not realize is that there is no such thing as dual agency in a residential real estate deal. The listing agent has a signed contract with the seller and is legally contracted to represent the seller's interest. You can call it dual agency, but the seller's agent is legally contracted to represent the seller and has no such obligation to the buyer and may not enter into such obligation with the buyer. It would be like your lawyer representing you and the other party. You can enter into a contract with a person who has a lawyer for representation, but if you do not have legal representation, the other lawyer in no way represents you or your interests, and if you think they do ...











Did you know that until about ten or so years ago, legally the buyer's agent also represented the seller?

What? You say, now you are crazy Awgee.

Look it up yourself.

And do you know why the buyer's agent was contractually obligated to represent the seller?

And why in the real world the buyer's agent still works in the best interest of the seller and not the buyer?</blockquote>
Actually Awgee, if the seller's agent do get a signed representation agreement from the buyer then they are also legally contracted to represent the buyer as well as the seller. Comparing lawyers to real estate agents and the relationship between them and their clients is comparing apples and oranges. Btw, they forgot to tell me at the realtor orientation that I would be legally representing the seller as a buyer's agent. How about the case where I am representing myself as both the buyer and the buyer agent? Of course I'll be looking out for myself as the individual as opposed to the commission I'll make and that is exactly how I approach my working relationship with my buyers (I would do the same things for them as I would for myself if I were the buyer). That being said, I'll be the first to admit that because I do contribute a good portion of my commission and those commissions don't pay the bills it does take away that temptation for me to ask like a typical realtard so you are spot on that the current commission based compensation structure for realtors can and do create conflicts of interest between agent and their buyers/sellers.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1241908115]Which brings us to the question, how can one hire non-conflicted help for a real estate sales transaction?

Find an expert or someone you trust, it does not have to be a real estate agent, who will provide service for a non-commissioned fee, just like your doctor, or grocery checker, or gardener, or maid, or zoo keeper, or land surveyor, or ...



Deuce - Have you ever heard or read or seen me recommend to anyone that they represent themselves is a real estate transaction? Out of all this discussion, for me, please answer this last question.</blockquote>


Thank you awgee,



I don't think it would be productive right now to look through all of your posts, but I believe that you've regularly posted the following items:

1. Some buyers need help, and should seek representation from a trusted source.

2. Some buyers don't need help.

3. If a buyer is choosing to work the listing agent, to be aware that they are not getting, and should not expect proper representation from the listing agent. Essentially <em>Caveat emptor</em>.

4. You've also mentioned the inherent conflict between the sellers and their agent (<em>Caveat venditor</em>? my Latin is rusty.)

and

5. The Fed is not run by the government.



So I believe the answer is "No, I haven't read a recommendation to represent yourself."

I am hopeful that your aim is to clarify expectations. It is a subtle but not insignificant distinction that you are making.





Understand, though, that the insinuation is that stepping_up did not do a good job representing herself.

More specifically, it is faulting her for expecting help/assistance/guidance from someone who had signed an agency agreement with her to act in a fiduciary role for her interests. I can understand why this nuance is causing a rift between the two of you.



Thank you and please correct me if I've misrepresented anything in my summation.

-IR2
 
IR2 - 95%

I do not think that Step has or ever will do a poor job representing herself. She is obviously bright, just misinformed.

I do not fault Step for her lack of knowledge on non-representation. How can anybody know all this nonsense? Certainly not I, and maybe not even you.

I fault Step for constantly telling others what they should or should not do based on her misinformation.

I just had a real estate agent who had talked with me for two minutes tell me I should buy now. Literally, she said, "You should buy now."

I can not imagine the presumption and arrogance that one must feel to think that one can tell another what they should or should not do when they know next to nothing about the other person, their circumstance, and maybe not even the subject they are giving advice on.

About three years ago, after we sold our home, my best friend for 35 years asked me if he should sell. I never even considered giving him a should or shouldn't. I tell my kids what to do and what they should do. And I manage my mom's investments so I give her some pretty specific advice.

If you ever catch me telling someone they should or should not represent themselves in an re transaction, you have my permission to slap me.
 
I just re-read this thread. Step was only echoing trojan's sentiment after he said not to go through a listing agent. So I don't see why Step's getting harped on so much. You both (actually, all three) agree that a listing agent will not represent a buyer's best interest so there ya go. Step's just sharing her opinion with the hopes that the newbie buyer doesn't get taken advantage of. Can't fault her for that. FYI you did tell the OP to fire her agent and hire IR2, so yeah you did dispense advice also.
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1241938383]I just re-read this thread. Step was only echoing trojan's sentiment after he said not to go through a listing agent. So I don't see why Step's getting harped on so much. You both (actually, all three) agree that a listing agent will not represent a buyer's best interest so there ya go. Step's just sharing her opinion with the hopes that the newbie buyer doesn't get taken advantage of. Can't fault her for that. FYI you did tell the OP to fire her agent and hire IR2, so yeah you did dispense advice also.</blockquote>


You are right. I did. I will have to be more careful.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1241940244][quote author="SoCal78" date=1241938383]I just re-read this thread. Step was only echoing trojan's sentiment after he said not to go through a listing agent. So I don't see why Step's getting harped on so much. You both (actually, all three) agree that a listing agent will not represent a buyer's best interest so there ya go. Step's just sharing her opinion with the hopes that the newbie buyer doesn't get taken advantage of. Can't fault her for that. FYI you did tell the OP to fire her agent and hire IR2, so yeah you did dispense advice also.</blockquote>


You are right. I did. I will have to be more careful.</blockquote>
Nothing wrong with dispensing good advice.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1241941154][quote author="awgee" date=1241940244][quote author="SoCal78" date=1241938383]I just re-read this thread. Step was only echoing trojan's sentiment after he said not to go through a listing agent. So I don't see why Step's getting harped on so much. You both (actually, all three) agree that a listing agent will not represent a buyer's best interest so there ya go. Step's just sharing her opinion with the hopes that the newbie buyer doesn't get taken advantage of. Can't fault her for that. FYI you did tell the OP to fire her agent and hire IR2, so yeah you did dispense advice also.</blockquote>


You are right. I did. I will have to be more careful.</blockquote>
Nothing wrong with dispensing good advice.</blockquote>


I agree. I don't fault anyone for giving advice when they have good intentions. I think we'd all agree the culpability ultimately falls on the person taking it, as a buyer should only use that as a starting point to perform their due diligence.
 
Wow lots of bantering on this thread. Nonetheless, learned something about sellers' agent duties will ultimately lie with the seller in a dual agency situation. That is very good info. I thought the agent has to be fair to both parties.



Can see how both agents would lean toward sellers price since they want a transaction to go thru.
 
[quote author="etheran" date=1241957614]Wow lots of bantering on this thread. Nonetheless, learned something about sellers' agent duties will ultimately lie with the seller in a dual agency situation. That is very good info. I thought the agent has to be fair to both parties.



Can see how both agents would lean toward sellers price since they want a transaction to go thru.</blockquote>
Yeah, all in good clean fun though. But between all the lines of bantering, I'm sure there's some good information in this thread and I think that's the point all of us posting up.
 
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