Burn That Belly
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Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
- Thread starter StarmanMBA
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
YOU NIMBYs want to tell property owners, which of course you call "greedy developers," what to do with their properties. How about we tell you to tear down your house and restore it to native habitat, and move to another town to reduce the traffic here you find so repugnant? Moreover, the overwhelming majority of housing built is NOT for "homeless." Stop changing the subject. That's very poor debate form.
Driving your kids all over the place, and driving to protests, and driving a very great deal WHILE preaching climate change sharia has everything to do with climate change, doesn't it.
Fortunately YOU don't "want to excess." Your wants are JUST RIGHT. So are John Kerry's, Hillary Clinton's, Barack Obama's, Richard Branson's, and all the Hollywood Limousine Liberals who preach climate change before getting on their private jets.
Teachers want to gross excess, for working ~180 days, and getting very cushy retirement packages, paid for by working people the majority of whom collect the pittance from social security. And since you characterize all developers as "greedy," presumably you will build thousands of needed houses and apartments all around Irvine, on property owned by others? Explain how you will do this.
NIMBYism is rampant throughout California. It is not just constrained to Irvine.
Didn't you even know THAT?
Moreover, taking "the bus" does not make housing any more affordable. You make no sense, try as you might.
Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. First, hundreds of thousands of people are already leaving THE STATE, not just Irvine.
Secondly, why do the residents of Victorville have to tolerate the kind of growth YOU whine about?
You're not making the slightest bit of sense. I'll explain why.
1. I'm arguing on behalf of EVERYBODY's kids.
2. I DID steer my kids in the right direction. What I'm trying to do now is steer selfish NIMBYs in the right direction. But like *progressives* (sick) everywhere, they never want to learn. They have their demands and by God, everybody had better respect them.
3. Taxpayers don't "subsidize for anyone's children's shortcomings just to live in Irvine." The Irvine Company develops land, pays for infrastructure and then the property is sold or rented to the public.
Your selfishness is profoundly greedy and one-sided. That is my point.
You've got yours, and you say the hell with everybody else.
I think Irvine Co. has been great at master planning but it has faltered in the past 5 to 6 years. The Chinese/Asian wave caught it by surprise and a lot of other developers have cashed in. Only recently has Irvine Co. brought in ethnic businesses. Most of the "neighborhood centers" are still stuck in the 1990s as far as tenants go.
It remains to be seen if they can adapt to the changing demographics.
Name five.
Right, so you're saying Donald Bren COULD sell land for $75 per square foot, but since "he's not trying to optimize pricing, " he is selling it for $50 per square foot.
Does this make sense to anyone else? NOBODY gives away free stuff in that manner.
Have you any idea of what Bren's cash flow is? I do.
What a strange left (right?) turn for this thread. I don't know what the FYGM attitude of NIMBYs has to do with (relatively centrist) Democrats, and I would actually suggest that most anti-development folks on this forum vote Republican. I think it's more important to focus on economic competitiveness, and meeting increasing employment/housing needs.
Anywhere someone posted an opinion contrary to your own exalted missives, you could call it "a place to vent his frustrations." Read the LA Times any day. All they do in every section is vent their spleens in typical Democrat style.
As to where I earned my MBA, let me say this. I challenged a financial adviser a few years ago when she wrote an inane article published in the Register. She responded that she earned HER MBA at USC. I offered her a wager of $10,000 that my portfolio return exceeded her model portfolio and she declined the wager. Wise of her.
I could go on at some length, but there is no need to do so. My portfolio earns more than you do, I'm quite sure.
ROTFLMAO
LA, SF, SJ, OC, Sac, you name it... use google. Honestly trying to deny there's not even a few YIMBY movements out there? Are you living under a rock and what people are saying about housing and affordability in CA?
How can you be against NIMBYism and at the same time be defensive about YIMBYism? ???
https://yimbyla.com/http://www.citywatchla.com/index.ph...931-move-over-nimbys-and-make-room-for-yimbys
www.sfyimby.org/
yimbyaction.org/
https://cayimby.org/take-action/local/orange-county/http://www.peopleforhousing.org/https://www.ocregister.com/2017/09/...s-join-the-battle-in-california-housing-wars/
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11...by-movement-is-winning-with-a-simple-message/
http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/erika-d-smith/article162699668.html
No, I'm not saying he's selling anything at a discount. I'm saying he doesn't optimize his business. The apartment business on revenue mgmt. Properties next door to each other, controlled by a monopoly, often promote and price against each other. They willing to let developable land, office, or retail space sit vacant if they don't like the market clearing price.
TIC has the luxury to do so, but also because it doesn't have to meet qtrly growth numbers. Bren does comp against some of the REITs but overall he is not focused on hitting qtrly growth numbers like a public corporation would be. He actually doesn't run the business like the monopoly that it is... and that is favorable to Irvine in that prices for homes and rentals are not what they would be otherwise.
In other words, imagine the land basis in Central OC was marked to today's market value. This is not far off from reality as in most metro areas where most commercial RE and developable land that isn't owned by TIC has traded once or twice in this cycle given how much values have increased. From the new marked up basis, the master developer and developer has to make a profit. Imagine what the ultimate price to us, the retail buyer, would be? Probably a lot higher.
StarmanMBA
Active member
Irvinecommuter said:
YOU NIMBYs want to tell property owners, which of course you call "greedy developers," what to do with their properties. How about we tell you to tear down your house and restore it to native habitat, and move to another town to reduce the traffic here you find so repugnant? Moreover, the overwhelming majority of housing built is NOT for "homeless." Stop changing the subject. That's very poor debate form.
Driving your kids all over the place, and driving to protests, and driving a very great deal WHILE preaching climate change sharia has everything to do with climate change, doesn't it.
Fortunately YOU don't "want to excess." Your wants are JUST RIGHT. So are John Kerry's, Hillary Clinton's, Barack Obama's, Richard Branson's, and all the Hollywood Limousine Liberals who preach climate change before getting on their private jets.
Teachers want to gross excess, for working ~180 days, and getting very cushy retirement packages, paid for by working people the majority of whom collect the pittance from social security. And since you characterize all developers as "greedy," presumably you will build thousands of needed houses and apartments all around Irvine, on property owned by others? Explain how you will do this.
StarmanMBA
Active member
misme said:
Burn That Belly
New member
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StarmanMBA
Active member
Burn That Belly said:
NIMBYism is rampant throughout California. It is not just constrained to Irvine.
Didn't you even know THAT?
Moreover, taking "the bus" does not make housing any more affordable. You make no sense, try as you might.
Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. First, hundreds of thousands of people are already leaving THE STATE, not just Irvine.
Secondly, why do the residents of Victorville have to tolerate the kind of growth YOU whine about?
You're not making the slightest bit of sense. I'll explain why.
1. I'm arguing on behalf of EVERYBODY's kids.
2. I DID steer my kids in the right direction. What I'm trying to do now is steer selfish NIMBYs in the right direction. But like *progressives* (sick) everywhere, they never want to learn. They have their demands and by God, everybody had better respect them.
3. Taxpayers don't "subsidize for anyone's children's shortcomings just to live in Irvine." The Irvine Company develops land, pays for infrastructure and then the property is sold or rented to the public.
Your selfishness is profoundly greedy and one-sided. That is my point.
You've got yours, and you say the hell with everybody else.
Actually, there's a growing YIMBYism movement all across CA. In many places there are community groups welcoming development. The problem has been that land prices have risen so much its simply impossible for developers to build middle market housing. All in yields on a luxury apartment development project is LA and OC is around 5.5% assuming decent rent growth. Pretty thin return for the level of risk undertaken.
As much as we bemoan the Irvine Co, their unique situation creates unintended benefit to residents. As with many family RE businesses, Bren cares about cash flow as opposed to % returns like most investors. In other words, so long as he's making money - which he's making plenty of - he's not trying to optimize pricing. It helps a lot that his land basis is effectively zero, so for them, development isn't that risky. I would argue that cost of housing - both rental and owned - is artifically low in Irvine because of Irvine Co.
As much as we bemoan the Irvine Co, their unique situation creates unintended benefit to residents. As with many family RE businesses, Bren cares about cash flow as opposed to % returns like most investors. In other words, so long as he's making money - which he's making plenty of - he's not trying to optimize pricing. It helps a lot that his land basis is effectively zero, so for them, development isn't that risky. I would argue that cost of housing - both rental and owned - is artifically low in Irvine because of Irvine Co.
Irvinecommuter
New member
acpme said:
I think Irvine Co. has been great at master planning but it has faltered in the past 5 to 6 years. The Chinese/Asian wave caught it by surprise and a lot of other developers have cashed in. Only recently has Irvine Co. brought in ethnic businesses. Most of the "neighborhood centers" are still stuck in the 1990s as far as tenants go.
It remains to be seen if they can adapt to the changing demographics.
StarmanMBA
Active member
acpme said:
Name five.
Right, so you're saying Donald Bren COULD sell land for $75 per square foot, but since "he's not trying to optimize pricing, " he is selling it for $50 per square foot.
Does this make sense to anyone else? NOBODY gives away free stuff in that manner.
Have you any idea of what Bren's cash flow is? I do.
Burn That Belly
New member
x
paydawg
Active member
BTB - I see your signature below, but where's CV, WBE, SGE and Foothill Ranch?
LF = Buick | PS = Hyundai | GP = Volkswagen | CVE = Kia | EW = BMW | OHR = AMG | OHG = Tesla | LA = Porsche | ALTR = Aston Martin | WB/SG = Infiniti/Lexus | TR = Land Rover | T = Cadillac | HC = Maserati | NPC = Lambo
LF = Buick | PS = Hyundai | GP = Volkswagen | CVE = Kia | EW = BMW | OHR = AMG | OHG = Tesla | LA = Porsche | ALTR = Aston Martin | WB/SG = Infiniti/Lexus | TR = Land Rover | T = Cadillac | HC = Maserati | NPC = Lambo
Burn That Belly
New member
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Hugo Township
Active member
StarmanMBA said:
What a strange left (right?) turn for this thread. I don't know what the FYGM attitude of NIMBYs has to do with (relatively centrist) Democrats, and I would actually suggest that most anti-development folks on this forum vote Republican. I think it's more important to focus on economic competitiveness, and meeting increasing employment/housing needs.
StarmanMBA
Active member
fortune11 said:HMart said:
You are correct
Starlord just needs a place to vent his frustrations at living and working in a state run by Democrats -- probably got his MBA at Trump University
Anywhere someone posted an opinion contrary to your own exalted missives, you could call it "a place to vent his frustrations." Read the LA Times any day. All they do in every section is vent their spleens in typical Democrat style.
As to where I earned my MBA, let me say this. I challenged a financial adviser a few years ago when she wrote an inane article published in the Register. She responded that she earned HER MBA at USC. I offered her a wager of $10,000 that my portfolio return exceeded her model portfolio and she declined the wager. Wise of her.
I could go on at some length, but there is no need to do so. My portfolio earns more than you do, I'm quite sure.
irvinebullhousing
Well-known member
fortune11 said:HMart said:
You are correct
Starlord just needs a place to vent his frustrations at living and working in a state run by Democrats -- probably got his MBA at Trump University
ROTFLMAO
StarmanMBA said:
LA, SF, SJ, OC, Sac, you name it... use google. Honestly trying to deny there's not even a few YIMBY movements out there? Are you living under a rock and what people are saying about housing and affordability in CA?
How can you be against NIMBYism and at the same time be defensive about YIMBYism? ???
https://yimbyla.com/http://www.citywatchla.com/index.ph...931-move-over-nimbys-and-make-room-for-yimbys
www.sfyimby.org/
yimbyaction.org/
https://cayimby.org/take-action/local/orange-county/http://www.peopleforhousing.org/https://www.ocregister.com/2017/09/...s-join-the-battle-in-california-housing-wars/
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11...by-movement-is-winning-with-a-simple-message/
http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/erika-d-smith/article162699668.html
No, I'm not saying he's selling anything at a discount. I'm saying he doesn't optimize his business. The apartment business on revenue mgmt. Properties next door to each other, controlled by a monopoly, often promote and price against each other. They willing to let developable land, office, or retail space sit vacant if they don't like the market clearing price.
TIC has the luxury to do so, but also because it doesn't have to meet qtrly growth numbers. Bren does comp against some of the REITs but overall he is not focused on hitting qtrly growth numbers like a public corporation would be. He actually doesn't run the business like the monopoly that it is... and that is favorable to Irvine in that prices for homes and rentals are not what they would be otherwise.
In other words, imagine the land basis in Central OC was marked to today's market value. This is not far off from reality as in most metro areas where most commercial RE and developable land that isn't owned by TIC has traded once or twice in this cycle given how much values have increased. From the new marked up basis, the master developer and developer has to make a profit. Imagine what the ultimate price to us, the retail buyer, would be? Probably a lot higher.