RIP Ted Kennedy

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[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1251600223][quote author="awgee" date=1251599874][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1251587861]I find it interesting that it is considered acceptable to talk smack about dead people because of political disagreements with them.



I don't think I ever agreed with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms">Jessie Helms</a> about any policy decision, but I can respect that he was elected repeatedly to the US Senate and acted as his conscious directed him.</blockquote>
I disrespect the man for his lack of character, not his politics.</blockquote>


At the moment of passing, only the positive is relevant.



History will have its chance to reveal the negative and provide a balanced view.</blockquote>
Why is only the positive relevant at the time of passing?



And I think you know me well enough by now to know that I care little for balance and care all for the truth, whether extreme or balanced. Mediocrity and a life of denial is not for me.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1251601083][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1251600223][quote author="awgee" date=1251599874][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1251587861]I find it interesting that it is considered acceptable to talk smack about dead people because of political disagreements with them.



I don't think I ever agreed with <a href="http://en.wiki.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms">Jessie Helms</a> about any policy decision, but I can respect that he was elected repeatedly to the US Senate and acted as his conscious directed him.</blockquote>
I disrespect the man for his lack of character, not his politics.</blockquote>


At the moment of passing, only the positive is relevant.



History will have its chance to reveal the negative and provide a balanced view.</blockquote>
Why is only the positive relevant at the time of passing?



And I think you know me well enough by now to know that I care little for balance and care all for the truth, whether extreme or balanced. Mediocrity and a life of denial is not for me.</blockquote>


Its called respect for the dead. How would you feel if at your fathers wake some nut job decided to mention

your dads car accident 40 years ago ? Even if it involved a death. Its called having a little class for gods sake,

while the man is put in the ground. That was the point of this thread. Not for you to turn this thread into political

or personal attack on Ted Kennedy on the day of his funeral.



Then you mention Joseph Stalin in your ranting. So you are comparing Ted Kennedy to Joe Stalin ?

You are reaching a little here dont you think ?



In your ranting you wish to seek the truth. Personally. "You cant handle the truth". And the truth is.

99% of America will let the man be buried in peace and show the dignity of respect as he is laid to rest.



You seem to want to take this instant in time to get on you soapbox and bellow about some injustice you peceive

is more important that common courtesy and simple adult behavior. You should be embarrassed.



Awgee. Give it a rest. The man has met his maker. God will decide Ted Kennedy`s final judgement.

Not you.



I am out of this thread. Its sad to see people like Awgee be this way.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1251603412][quote author="awgee" date=1251601083][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1251600223][quote author="awgee" date=1251599874][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1251587861]I find it interesting that it is considered acceptable to talk smack about dead people because of political disagreements with them.



I don't think I ever agreed with <a href="http://en.wiki.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms">Jessie Helms</a> about any policy decision, but I can respect that he was elected repeatedly to the US Senate and acted as his conscious directed him.</blockquote>
I disrespect the man for his lack of character, not his politics.</blockquote>


At the moment of passing, only the positive is relevant.



History will have its chance to reveal the negative and provide a balanced view.</blockquote>
Why is only the positive relevant at the time of passing?



And I think you know me well enough by now to know that I care little for balance and care all for the truth, whether extreme or balanced. Mediocrity and a life of denial is not for me.</blockquote>


Its called respect for the dead. How would you feel if at your fathers wake some nut job decided to mention

your dads car accident 40 years ago ? Even if it involved a death. Its called having a little class for gods sake,

while the man is put in the ground. That was the point of this thread. Not for you to turn this thread into political

or personal attack on Ted Kennedy on the day of his funeral.



Then you mention Joseph Stalin in your ranting. So you are comparing Ted Kennedy to Joe Stalin ?

You are reaching a little here dont you think ?



In your ranting you wish to seek the truth. Personally. "You cant handle the truth". And the truth is.

99% of America will let the man be buried in peace and show the dignity of respect as he is laid to rest.



You seem to want to take this instant in time to get on you soapbox and bellow about some injustice you peceive

is more important that common courtesy and simple adult behavior. You should be embarrassed.



Awgee. Give it a rest. The man has met his maker. God will decide Ted Kennedy`s final judgement.

Not you.



I am out of this thread. Its sad to see people like Awgee be this way.</blockquote>
I have respect for the dead who deserve respect. Ted Kennedy deserves no respect.
 
Jail is for locking up criminals with a threat to society and Ted Kennedy did not fall in that category. To jail someone is to take away the accused individuals their most prized possession and that is usually freedom.



To Ted Kennedy losing his presidency due to his mistakes was his greatest form of punishment than jail. Karma will come around at the end of ones life for all the bad things that one committed during his lifetime. Dying from painful cancer is considered such. Losing many loved one is another.



To a public figure shame and humiliation were the greatest punishment. He endured that for years and over the years he admitted his immorality and the lack of moral character. No one individual could have endured and lived with more tragedies in their lifetime than Ted Kennedy. His closest sisblings and relatives all died before him prematurely. Yes there are sentiment among the public. Yes he was a pig in his private conduct. His addictions were classic signs of internal struggle dealing with sadness, depression and loneliness by masking his feeling with substance and lewd behavior. He was remorseful and made every effort to reclaim his moral dignity during the remainder of his life. I give credit to him for trying and I believe in redemption.



He made more contribution to our humanity being free than being locked up on a jail cell. It was our judicial system that set him free and perhaps influenced by the Kennedy name. The court IMO made a decision for what was best for our society at the expense of the victim's family.



He was no perfect man. Everyone has weakness.
 
I certainly have mixed feelings about him also. It was nice to hear about the good things he did. I also very much acknowledge his horrible past, which I am of the opinion affected his lack of perception of reality and affected his political leanings. He likely felt quite ostracized for a while and wanted to make up for it by helping those who are ostracized likewise by society. In that, he did well, to reach out and "try," to some extent and help. On the larger issues, I highly disagreed with his very liberal leanings. Since I disagree with him, I can respect the life he lived, inadequate as I believe it was for a truly revered Senator. Other Senators have passed on and not received a quarter as much attention. I think the media wanted to acknowledge THEIR hero, and have not properly acknowledged other deceased Senators or representatives, etc. to any equal terms, which is sad because it skews the perception of what is acceptable in the general public's eyes. That said I of course appreciated their coverage though it felt like I was being forced to accept their version of a hero and am never afforded the same experience with other "heroes" I hear of. Perhaps that is the definition of heroes; those that are neglected and largely not as acknowledged but tried just as hard or harder than a more privileged individual is acknowledged.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1251681525]Jail is for locking up criminals with a threat to society and Ted Kennedy did not fall in that category. To jail someone is to take away the accused individuals their most prized possession and that is usually freedom.</blockquote>


This is not entirely true. Jail is also a means to punish and rehabilitate. Sure threats to society are kept in jail, purportedly to ensure society's safety, but that is not what "jail is for." Let's be clear, vehicular manslaughter is almost always punished by jail time. But for his family's name and wealth, Senator Kennedy would've have done time in jail for killing Mary Jo. At the very least, he should've been charged.



Regarding "losing his presidency" as sufficient punishment for killing a person, I would argue that the failure to achieve a professional goal is hardly sufficient recompense for taking a life. Notwithstanding my position, this supposed "loss" occured years after the incident. I think the comparison is a bad one.



For the record, I thought TK was a good guy. He was very popular on the hill. I met him once, briefly. Very nice. Politically, I disagree with most of his policy positions. I also don't think the one incident above should define who he is or was, but I also think that it is a part of who he (and his family) is and was.
 
Wow! How'd I miss this party? Nevermind, I know how I got distracted.



<img src="http://www.peacocknine.com/pages/Discussion_files/skippy.jpg" alt="" />
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1252035238]Jimmy and his brother?</blockquote>


No, not Jimmy! Skippy!



<img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vLbMuPkqGIw/SLqp2CuaZbI/AAAAAAAADr8/RCoNuQ9QLLE/s400/Skippy.jpg" alt="" />
 
C'mon people - you remember Skippy, the borderline retarded friend of Alex, who was in love with Mallory?



<img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3080/3234891721_5bb4249129.jpg?v=0" alt="" />



Then again, I think everyone had a crush on Mallory. That didn't turn out so hot....she hasn't aged well IMO.



<img src="http://api.ning.com/files/2Hvqk7veYYs15AyoKuX-cB45S0-WumH2psxNjrS7w0KYeLV*8aymlfWnEvq6-OnrYp3L1X2R7nO2J6mf*kJlMSeQ3nd*0HHT/jbateman.jpg" alt="" />
 
I understand why those on the left had great respect for Senator Kennedy's legislative record and political power. I am sure that just as Conservatives had Ronald Reagan, Liberals had Ted Kennedy as their champion.



That being said, I distinctly remember the hatred and invective that was spilling out on the interweb when Reagan died, as many on the left did everything they could to soil his memory and defame his legacy.



If you were not one of those people, you have my condolences on your loss. However, if you were one of those people who were glad Reagan died and were only to happy to revel in his passing by making jokes and hurling insults... this thread isn't half as bad as what you deserve.



Awgee, I applaud you. It's time we started to hold all politicians to a higher standard. People are human and make mistakes, but that does not absolve them of the consequences of those mistakes... unless you're a Kennedy.
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1252062973]I understand why those on the left had great respect for Senator Kennedy's legislative record and political power. I am sure that just as Conservatives had Ronald Reagan, Liberals had Ted Kennedy as their champion.



That being said, I distinctly remember the hatred and invective that was spilling out on the interweb when Reagan died, as many on the left did everything they could to soil his memory and defame his legacy.



If you were not one of those people, you have my condolences on your loss. However, if you were one of those people who were glad Reagan died and were only to happy to revel in his passing by making jokes and hurling insults... this thread isn't half as bad as what you deserve.



Awgee, I applaud you. It's time we started to hold all politicians to a higher standard. People are human and make mistakes, but that does not absolve them of the consequences of those mistakes... unless you're a Kennedy.</blockquote>


All I have to say is, welcome back, and I sincerely mean it.
 
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