Rebate on New home purchases - Discuss

[Agent Joe]

Hello fellow Irvine residents (and future residents)! I am a licensed realtor in Irvine and would love the opportunity to work with anyone looking to purchase a new home in the area. My contact info is below.

 

[irvinebullhousing]

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[msuum]

Does anyone know how much I have to pay for the listing agent in today's market.  I am thinking to sell my rental home and cash in right now.

 

[woodburyowner]

Does anyone know how much I have to pay for the listing agent in today's market.  I am thinking to sell my rental home and cash in right now.

Avg is around 2.25%, but I have seen some agents go as low as 1% these days.

 

[usctrojancpa]

Does anyone know how much I have to pay for the listing agent in today's market.  I am thinking to sell my rental home and cash in right now.

Most agents will ask for 5% (to be split equally between the listing agent and the buyer agent) which frankly doesn't align the listing agent's interest with that of the seller.  I have a variable performance based commission structure which better aligns my commission with the seller's #1 goal (highest price possible).  What you offer up to buyer's agent is depend upon the type of property that you are selling...meaning the less inventory and hotter the market the lower buyer agent commission you can offer.

 

[Agent Joe]

Does anyone know how much I have to pay for the listing agent in today's market.  I am thinking to sell my rental home and cash in right now.

2-2.5% usually. I'd offer 2.5% to the buyer's agent just to stay competitive.

 

[Navigatn]

What are the chances a builder will reduce the sales price by the amount of the broker coop if I do not walk in with my agent?  I feel like it would be the easiest way for me to get the so called "max rebate".  I mean, it really doesn't make a difference to the builder.  Either they pay the coop to me as a reduction to the sales price or they cut a check to my agent.  For me as buyer, it makes a huge difference.  Either I get all of the 100% of the coop as a price reduction or I get 50% of it back from my agent after close.

 

[usctrojancpa]

What are the chances a builder will reduce the sales price by the amount of the broker coop if I do not walk in with my agent?  I feel like it would be the easiest way for me to get the so called "max rebate".  I mean, it really doesn't make a difference to the builder.  Either they pay the coop to me as a reduction to the sales price or they cut a check to my agent.  For me as buyer, it makes a huge difference.  Either I get all of the 100% of the coop as a price reduction or I get 50% of it back from my agent after close.

Almost 0% because the broker co-op is paid out of the marketing budget.  Them reducing the price will hurt the comps for the tract and piss off previous and current buyers.  Before you walk into the sales office, you should call them and ask that when if they tell you no then you can still bring in a agent and register with an agent. 

 

[Irvine Dream]

What are the chances a builder will reduce the sales price by the amount of the broker coop if I do not walk in with my agent?  I feel like it would be the easiest way for me to get the so called "max rebate".  I mean, it really doesn't make a difference to the builder.  Either they pay the coop to me as a reduction to the sales price or they cut a check to my agent.  For me as buyer, it makes a huge difference.  Either I get all of the 100% of the coop as a price reduction or I get 50% of it back from my agent after close.

Almost 0% because the broker co-op is paid out of the marketing budget.  Them reducing the price will hurt the comps for the tract and piss off previous and current buyers.  Before you walk into the sales office, you should call them and ask that when if they tell you no then you can still bring in a agent and register with an agent.

My experience with CalPacific/Irvine Pacific is that no price reduction/no allowance for upgrade/no nothing even if you go without an agent even when they are providing Broker co-op of 3%

 

[Navigatn]

What are the chances a builder will reduce the sales price by the amount of the broker coop if I do not walk in with my agent?  I feel like it would be the easiest way for me to get the so called "max rebate".  I mean, it really doesn't make a difference to the builder.  Either they pay the coop to me as a reduction to the sales price or they cut a check to my agent.  For me as buyer, it makes a huge difference.  Either I get all of the 100% of the coop as a price reduction or I get 50% of it back from my agent after close.

Almost 0% because the broker co-op is paid out of the marketing budget.  Them reducing the price will hurt the comps for the tract and piss off previous and current buyers.  Before you walk into the sales office, you should call them and ask that when if they tell you no then you can still bring in a agent and register with an agent.

How would previous and current buyers even find out how much these new homes are closing at?  I'm trying to find out how much previous phases were selling for and I can not.  It's not like new construction sales are listed on Redfin.  Yes, buyers can find out what their models are currently listed at in the sales office, but they don't know what kind of incentives and concessions the builder is offering just to get the last few lots sold so they can release the next phase. 

I've been sending a friend to a sales office to report back the availability and pricing on one of the lingering lot that hasn't sold.  At first, they were firm on the price.  Now they're willing to apply unused upgrade incentives to knock down the price.  I feel like builder is pressuring them to sell out the current phase and they are becoming desperate to do so. 

 

[usctrojancpa]

What are the chances a builder will reduce the sales price by the amount of the broker coop if I do not walk in with my agent?  I feel like it would be the easiest way for me to get the so called "max rebate".  I mean, it really doesn't make a difference to the builder.  Either they pay the coop to me as a reduction to the sales price or they cut a check to my agent.  For me as buyer, it makes a huge difference.  Either I get all of the 100% of the coop as a price reduction or I get 50% of it back from my agent after close.

Almost 0% because the broker co-op is paid out of the marketing budget.  Them reducing the price will hurt the comps for the tract and piss off previous and current buyers.  Before you walk into the sales office, you should call them and ask that when if they tell you no then you can still bring in a agent and register with an agent.

How would previous and current buyers even find out how much these new homes are closing at?  I'm trying to find out how much previous phases were selling for and I can not.  It's not like new construction sales are listed on Redfin.  Yes, buyers can find out what their models are currently listed at in the sales office, but they don't know what kind of incentives and concessions the builder is offering just to get the last few lots sold so they can release the next phase. 

I've been sending a friend to a sales office to report back the availability and pricing on one of the lingering lot that hasn't sold.  At first, they were firm on the price.  Now they're willing to apply unused upgrade incentives to knock down the price.  I feel like builder is pressuring them to sell out the current phase and they are becoming desperate to do so. 

Yeah, your best bet would be to go after a standing inventory home from an old phase.  The only downside will be that most all of the options will have been selected already.  The builder provides the appraiser the closing prices for comps because they have access to the closing statements.  Builders will throw closing cost, lender cost, and design center credits before they reduce the price of the home.  If the builder is willing to negotiate on price, they'll still pay out on the broker co-op because the broker co-op is paid out of a separate bucket (i.e. the builder paying out a broker co-op won't adversely affect the price and credits that you might get).

 

[usctrojancpa]

What are the chances a builder will reduce the sales price by the amount of the broker coop if I do not walk in with my agent?  I feel like it would be the easiest way for me to get the so called "max rebate".  I mean, it really doesn't make a difference to the builder.  Either they pay the coop to me as a reduction to the sales price or they cut a check to my agent.  For me as buyer, it makes a huge difference.  Either I get all of the 100% of the coop as a price reduction or I get 50% of it back from my agent after close.

Almost 0% because the broker co-op is paid out of the marketing budget.  Them reducing the price will hurt the comps for the tract and piss off previous and current buyers.  Before you walk into the sales office, you should call them and ask that when if they tell you no then you can still bring in a agent and register with an agent.

My experience with CalPacific/Irvine Pacific is that no price reduction/no allowance for upgrade/no nothing even if you go without an agent even when they are providing Broker co-op of 3%

Not many builders offer a 3% broker co-op...it's normally some flat amount that translates to around 1.5% to 2% of the sales price.

 

[Navigatn]

I can see the builder not wanting to lower BASE price, but what if the lot I'm looking at is a view lot with a $100K view premium added on?  Will they be more willing to reduce?  Also, can credits exceed closing costs and fees and the excess paid out to the buyer?

 

[usctrojancpa]

I can see the builder not wanting to lower BASE price, but what if the lot I'm looking at is a view lot with a $100K view premium added on?  Will they be more willing to reduce?  Also, can credits exceed closing costs and fees and the excess paid out to the buyer?

Yeah, you can see if they'll lower the premium on the view lot but I doubt they will because those tend to be the most desirable lots.  The lender will not allow any excess credits beyond the closings costs to be paid to the buyer....that's where the rebate can help because it normally has to be done outside of escrow because builders won't allow it through escrow. 

 

[mikebruin]

I have a question that I'm asking on behalf of a friend (also just curious myself).

Are there any rebates being offered for Brisa and Carissa by California Pacific Homes?  How much is the rebate usually?  These are both in Portola Springs, I think identical builds but in different areas.  I'm curious what kind of rebates are being offered, and if there are agents you can recommend that might share the rebate with the buyer.  USC?

Also, this may be a bit paranoid, but is there any chance the builder passes on you as a potential buyer simply because you have a rebate attached to your name?  In other words, would they choose someone else to move up on the priority list ahead of you since they wouldn't have to pay them a rebate?

Thanks in advance!

 

[potsticker]

I have a question that I'm asking on behalf of a friend (also just curious myself).

Are there any rebates being offered for Brisa and Carissa by California Pacific Homes?  How much is the rebate usually?  These are both in Portola Springs, I think identical builds but in different areas.  I'm curious what kind of rebates are being offered, and if there are agents you can recommend that might share the rebate with the buyer.  USC?

Also, this may be a bit paranoid, but is there any chance the builder passes on you as a potential buyer simply because you have a rebate attached to your name?  In other words, would they choose someone else to move up on the priority list ahead of you since they wouldn't have to pay them a rebate?

Thanks in advance!

This is how it works. You find an agent and he/she signs you in at the Sales Office on your first visit. This makes your agent eligible for a broker co-op, which is paid to your agent at close of escrow. It's up to you how you negotiate your rebate and how much you get. It's done outside of escrow - so the builder never knows. Mainly because they don't allow such a credit at close of escrow. You can write a contract with your agent if you need peace of mind that they'll deliver on their promise to give you a portion of the commission.

With regard to specific developments - you can call and ask. "If I come with my agent on the first visit and purchase, what's the broker co-op you pay the agent?" Some may know on here - but the most accurate answer you'll get is from the sales office. Sometimes quick move-ins get a higher co-op.

That said, ballpark co-op figures... under $1m, the co-op will be around $8k-$12k. Over $1m - $15k-$20k. $2m+ - $25k+.

As far as rebates, I'd ask for nothing less than 50%. More if you're buying a $2m+ home. Don't let agents lecture you on their broker cut, potential income taxes, etc. There are agents who will offer you 50% on new construction.

USC is your guy. I'm a licensed agent - but not a board sponsor...so you should use USC as he keeps this community alive. He won't make you pay his income taxes on the commission either...but that's a whole different topic.

 

[usctrojancpa]

Potsticker is right on the money.  All of the builders in Irvine are offering broker co-op commission to agents that bring a buyer, including CalPac.  CalPac's broker co-op commissions range from $12,000 to $16,000, depending on the development.

 

[usctrojancpa]

I have a question that I'm asking on behalf of a friend (also just curious myself).

Are there any rebates being offered for Brisa and Carissa by California Pacific Homes?  How much is the rebate usually?  These are both in Portola Springs, I think identical builds but in different areas.  I'm curious what kind of rebates are being offered, and if there are agents you can recommend that might share the rebate with the buyer.  USC?

Also, this may be a bit paranoid, but is there any chance the builder passes on you as a potential buyer simply because you have a rebate attached to your name?  In other words, would they choose someone else to move up on the priority list ahead of you since they wouldn't have to pay them a rebate?

Thanks in advance!

To answer the second part of your question, the builder if not pass up a buyer if they come with an agent for a buyer that came without one.  The priority of where the buyer is on the waitlist is based upon when the buyer gets loan pre-approved with the builder's lender and the builder uses that day/time as the time stamp to determine the placement on the buyer list.

 

[test]

Can anyone send me a link or something I can send to my CPA regarding this? He believes the only way is 1099. Also had a friend go through something with IRS saying it has to be 1099 as well.

Besides the IRS ruling with Redfin, you just need to step back for a second and apply some common sense when it comes to the "earned income" definition.  The IRS defines it as earnings from you working for someone or some company who pays you providing goods and/or a services OR earnings from you owning and running a business or farm (investments, rentals, etc would fall into this group).  Where has the buyer done work for the agent to constitute earned income?  Obviously it's the other way around.  So the rebate is a reduction of the cost basis in the home (the same way it would be if the agent provided the rebate as a credit towards closing costs in escrow).  So I'd also for any agent or CPA to explain to me why a rebate done through escrow is treated a reduction of cost basis but a rebate outside of escrow should be treated as earned income?  See how that makes zero sense.  Just like you have uneducated and/or lazy agents, there are also CPAs that are no better.

My understanding is, if the rebate is done through escrow, (1) the actual amount seller paid to Buyers broker (factoring if Broker gave a rebate to Buyer) is what the Seller reports to the IRS and the rebate portion is treated as a reduction to purchase cost.  So I agree with what you posted on the process through escrow. 


Example, if the full commission that seller was paying to Buyers broker is $10,000, and Buyers broker told Seller and escrow to allocate $5,000 of his/her commission and treat this as a rebate and reduction to the purchase price.  The amount Seller would report on the 1099 issued to Buyers at $5,000 since that is the amount the seller actually paid to the Buyers broker and the other $5,000 would be treated as a Sellers reduction to purchase price.

Using the same example amounts listed above, IF full commission was issued to the Buyers broker outside escrow.  Then the Seller would issue the Buyers broker a 1099 for $10,000 since that is the amount the Seller actually paid the Buyers broker.  So unless the Buyers broker wants to pay taxes on the $10K, he/she will need to redirect the portion of this income towards the Buyer by issuing the Buyer a 1099 for $5K for the portion the Buyers broker gave to Buyer as a rebate outside escrow.  By doing this the Buyers broker will net their income earned from $10K to $5K (10K received from Seller less 5K given back to Buyer via 1099) and the Buyer will pay taxes on the $5K they received from the broker.  Hopefully this makes sense. 

Basically the issuing of 1099 from Buyers broker to Buyer is to benefit the Buyers broker and for them to pay taxes only on the actual amount they received vs. the full amount issued by Seller IF the process was done outside of escrow.

Also not all rebates are considered non taxable income.  Example, rebates issued from utility companies are considered taxable income.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

To be very precise here's how I do it on my Schedule C...

Line 1 (Gross Receipts/Sales) - I input the 1099 that I receive from my broker (commission rebates made through escrow are reflected in that number)
Line 2 (Returns & Allowances) - I input the total commission rebates made outside of escrow which is a deduction to Line 1

Hope you never get audited because unless it's shown on the HUD-1 then it's not a rebate it's a gift and you can only deduct $25.

 

[usctrojancpa]

Can anyone send me a link or something I can send to my CPA regarding this? He believes the only way is 1099. Also had a friend go through something with IRS saying it has to be 1099 as well.

Besides the IRS ruling with Redfin, you just need to step back for a second and apply some common sense when it comes to the "earned income" definition.  The IRS defines it as earnings from you working for someone or some company who pays you providing goods and/or a services OR earnings from you owning and running a business or farm (investments, rentals, etc would fall into this group).  Where has the buyer done work for the agent to constitute earned income?  Obviously it's the other way around.  So the rebate is a reduction of the cost basis in the home (the same way it would be if the agent provided the rebate as a credit towards closing costs in escrow).  So I'd also for any agent or CPA to explain to me why a rebate done through escrow is treated a reduction of cost basis but a rebate outside of escrow should be treated as earned income?  See how that makes zero sense.  Just like you have uneducated and/or lazy agents, there are also CPAs that are no better.

My understanding is, if the rebate is done through escrow, (1) the actual amount seller paid to Buyers broker (factoring if Broker gave a rebate to Buyer) is what the Seller reports to the IRS and the rebate portion is treated as a reduction to purchase cost.  So I agree with what you posted on the process through escrow. 


Example, if the full commission that seller was paying to Buyers broker is $10,000, and Buyers broker told Seller and escrow to allocate $5,000 of his/her commission and treat this as a rebate and reduction to the purchase price.  The amount Seller would report on the 1099 issued to Buyers at $5,000 since that is the amount the seller actually paid to the Buyers broker and the other $5,000 would be treated as a Sellers reduction to purchase price.

Using the same example amounts listed above, IF full commission was issued to the Buyers broker outside escrow.  Then the Seller would issue the Buyers broker a 1099 for $10,000 since that is the amount the Seller actually paid the Buyers broker.  So unless the Buyers broker wants to pay taxes on the $10K, he/she will need to redirect the portion of this income towards the Buyer by issuing the Buyer a 1099 for $5K for the portion the Buyers broker gave to Buyer as a rebate outside escrow.  By doing this the Buyers broker will net their income earned from $10K to $5K (10K received from Seller less 5K given back to Buyer via 1099) and the Buyer will pay taxes on the $5K they received from the broker.  Hopefully this makes sense. 

Basically the issuing of 1099 from Buyers broker to Buyer is to benefit the Buyers broker and for them to pay taxes only on the actual amount they received vs. the full amount issued by Seller IF the process was done outside of escrow.

Also not all rebates are considered non taxable income.  Example, rebates issued from utility companies are considered taxable income.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

To be very precise here's how I do it on my Schedule C...

Line 1 (Gross Receipts/Sales) - I input the 1099 that I receive from my broker (commission rebates made through escrow are reflected in that number)
Line 2 (Returns & Allowances) - I input the total commission rebates made outside of escrow which is a deduction to Line 1

Hope you never get audited because unless it's shown on the HUD-1 then it's not a rebate it's a gift and you can only deduct $25.

I have been audited and my position is the same position as Redfin used...it's a reduction of cost basis vs. 1099 income to the buyer because the rebate does not fall under the IRS definition of "earned income" because no goods or services were provided by the buyer to the agent.  It doesn't matter whether the rebate is done via escrow or outside of escrow, that's a formality.  The name of the buyer on the rebate check matches the closing statement exactly and the memo section also has commission rebate - 123 Main Street.