Ratification of Agreement Between the Irvine Unified School District and the Cal
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Personally...teachers don't make enough money IMO. Teachers are paid better and held in higher respect in most of the developed world.
Maybe higher respect, but not paid better. Well, compared to Irvine anyway. http://download.ei-ie.org/Docs/WebDepot/Teachers Pay 2008 Report.pdf
You obviously don't know any teachers if you think that. You try and handle 30-40 kids for 7 hours and then try to teach them something.
Don't know about Irvine (standard of living is higher) but overall US does not pay teachers well.
http://www.edudemic.com/global-teacher-salaries/
That's national median. That's about ?3200
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Education-Tr...ndergarten-and-elementary-school-teachers.htm
Let's not bandy stats and just a agree that a good teacher is worth more than they're paid and a bad teacher is just like any other bad employee.
Yes, most (including myself) agree that teachers are underpaid, but if you compare their hours/benefits to other jobs, it's decent. I know some people who would rather quit their private exempt non-paid overtime jobs to make less money being a teacher.
It's not just about supply and demand...it's about attracting talent to the profession. A person interested in teaching but can make more money in another profession. This is how high-skilled profession attract talent.
It doesn't make any sense to pay "a little as possible" for teachers.
Passion is what makes teachers great.
Money doesn't create passion, it does attract a lot of people that want the money though. Unfortunately, Government employees tend to become problems when they're in it for the money. Just like any other sector, except, you don't really get a lot of choices in dealing with them.
Of course...but financial interest is also important. Doctors choose to do specialized medicine because it pays a lot more than being a GP. Lawyers choose to work for law firms and corporations rather than public interest because the money is a lot better.
I am not saying that money is a panacea but it helps. In Taiwan, teachers are seen as a vital part of society and even the title of being a teacher is seen as an honorific.
Doesn't a PhD in Taiwan teaching in the primary schools make about 90000NT/month? Around $3200?
JMHO but anybody working in the private sector today that isn't working in K-12 because of the money probably can't cut it in the K-12 environment. The politics and bureaucracy will drive them batty.
Government inefficiency does not mean any particular group of or individual employees are inefficient.
I don't care for seniority very much but it is also a part of the benefit perks of being a teacher. It's similar to tenureship for professors.
Irvinecommuter
New member
test said:
Personally...teachers don't make enough money IMO. Teachers are paid better and held in higher respect in most of the developed world.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
IUSD is one of the better school districts in the state for transparency on salaries. Their salary schedules can be found here ->http://www.iusd.org/human_resources/SalaryScheduleAndEmployeeAgreements.html
Classroom teaching schedule is the first one.http://www.iusd.org/human_resources/documents/1213-CERTSALposted.pdf
Classroom teaching schedule is the first one.http://www.iusd.org/human_resources/documents/1213-CERTSALposted.pdf
nosuchreality
Well-known member
Irvinecommuter said:
Maybe higher respect, but not paid better. Well, compared to Irvine anyway. http://download.ei-ie.org/Docs/WebDepot/Teachers Pay 2008 Report.pdf
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Is that salary for the entire year?
If it is, considering they only "work" 9-10 months, don't have traditional 8-hour days, that's pretty good.
If it is, considering they only "work" 9-10 months, don't have traditional 8-hour days, that's pretty good.
Irvinecommuter
New member
irvinehomeowner said:
You obviously don't know any teachers if you think that. You try and handle 30-40 kids for 7 hours and then try to teach them something.
Irvinecommuter
New member
nosuchreality said:
Don't know about Irvine (standard of living is higher) but overall US does not pay teachers well.
http://www.edudemic.com/global-teacher-salaries/
nosuchreality
Well-known member
Irvinecommuter said:
That's national median. That's about ?3200
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Education-Tr...ndergarten-and-elementary-school-teachers.htm
Let's not bandy stats and just a agree that a good teacher is worth more than they're paid and a bad teacher is just like any other bad employee.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Actually I do (and if I remember correctly, that is a yearly salary)... and while I understand it's like a 24/7 job because you bring your work home more than traditional jobs, there are the usual benefits that goes with public sector jobs and the intangibles of job satisfaction for enriching minds of our future generation.Irvinecommuter said:
Yes, most (including myself) agree that teachers are underpaid, but if you compare their hours/benefits to other jobs, it's decent. I know some people who would rather quit their private exempt non-paid overtime jobs to make less money being a teacher.
qwerty
Well-known member
just like anything else, it comes down to supply/demand. they dont get paid more because there are plenty of replacements. that is how people are paid. they dont get paid based on the value they contribute to society. i get paid what i do because i have a certain set of skills that make a nightmare.. damn, im always trying to use the Taken quote. i get paid what i do because i have a ceratain skill set that is not in abundance out there. while most people would say what i do is not nearly as important as what a teacher does that is irrelevent when it comes to what you get paid. if you can easily be replaced you will earn less money, if you are not easily replaceable you will earn more money.
Irvinecommuter
New member
qwerty said:
It's not just about supply and demand...it's about attracting talent to the profession. A person interested in teaching but can make more money in another profession. This is how high-skilled profession attract talent.
It doesn't make any sense to pay "a little as possible" for teachers.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
Irvinecommuter said:
Passion is what makes teachers great.
Money doesn't create passion, it does attract a lot of people that want the money though. Unfortunately, Government employees tend to become problems when they're in it for the money. Just like any other sector, except, you don't really get a lot of choices in dealing with them.
Irvinecommuter
New member
nosuchreality said:
Of course...but financial interest is also important. Doctors choose to do specialized medicine because it pays a lot more than being a GP. Lawyers choose to work for law firms and corporations rather than public interest because the money is a lot better.
I am not saying that money is a panacea but it helps. In Taiwan, teachers are seen as a vital part of society and even the title of being a teacher is seen as an honorific.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
Irvinecommuter said:
Doesn't a PhD in Taiwan teaching in the primary schools make about 90000NT/month? Around $3200?
JMHO but anybody working in the private sector today that isn't working in K-12 because of the money probably can't cut it in the K-12 environment. The politics and bureaucracy will drive them batty.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
That's part of the problem with public sector (and governments), no reliable system to match compensation with performance.
Should a 3-year teacher with passion and drive make as much as a 10-year who is just doing the minimum? Sure. But their pay schedules prevent that.
Goes back to my whole government inefficiency "theory" (since some don't think private is any more efficient).
Should a 3-year teacher with passion and drive make as much as a 10-year who is just doing the minimum? Sure. But their pay schedules prevent that.
Goes back to my whole government inefficiency "theory" (since some don't think private is any more efficient).
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Ooo... forgot it was Irvinecommuter who said that... sorry... my snark came off even more vengeful... did I eat a chimichanga this morning?
Irvinecommuter
New member
irvinehomeowner said:
Government inefficiency does not mean any particular group of or individual employees are inefficient.
I don't care for seniority very much but it is also a part of the benefit perks of being a teacher. It's similar to tenureship for professors.