Price haircut protesters @ Columbus Grove- William Lyin'

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Some real estate agents believe their industry, and sales agents working for builders, have done a poor job of reminding people about the financial risk of buying a house.

"Do I tell people they should buy a house to make money? Yes, I do. But I temper that by telling the buyer that it might take five to seven years to make money, and that even then nothing is guaranteed," said Frank DiLauro, a real estate agent in Mission Viejo and former president of the Saddleback Valley Board of Realtors.

"Unfortunately, I don't think every agent -- or every builder's sales agent -- reminds their buyer of that," DiLauro added.

"The disappointment we're hearing from people who bought recently is something that they got, to a certain extent, from inexperienced sales agents."

For his part, Perniciaro said he and his neighbors understand risk. Their complaint, he claims, is strictly about what he believes were false promises.

"There were commitments made, and the company isn't living up to them. Now, they're not even answering telephone calls. It's like it would be if somebody bought an expensive Mercedes and suddenly there was no service," Perniciaro said.

"I understand the real estate market and that it doesn't always go up," added Perniciaro, a naturalized US citizen who was born in Italy, "but this is just not the American way."

Maybe not, but the kind of battle going on in Trabuco Highlands is becoming a fairly common situation in Orange County.

In August, a homeowner's group in the Tustin Ranch area calling itself BREN, or Block Real Estate Nonsense, lodged complaints -- similar to those cited by Perniciaro -- against Maricopa Development, a building company headed by Carey Bren, son of Irvine Co. Chairman Donald Bren.

Carey Bren has denied those allegations.

And in November, residents in the Summerfield at Coto neighborhood in Coto de Caza met with representatives of their builder, Coast Cos., to complain about the firm's decision to auction 26 houses in the neighborhood.

The auction came less than six months after the first residents moved in. Prices for houses purchased at auction were, in some cases, as much as $100,000 less than prices paid earlier in the year.

"We aren't mad about the auction," Summerfield resident Wayne Hauser said. "We're angry because we don't believe the builder made an effort to get full value. We don't think they stuck it out as long as they could have."

Officials from Coast Cos. could not be reached to comment. But they previously have admitted they did not plan to hold an auction when they sold houses to Hauser and others.
 
In Lyon Co.'s Trabuco Highlands project, for example, Sherman, the spokesman, said more than 1,000 houses have been sold and relatively few buyers have complained.

Statewide, complaints against builders and sales agents this year are running about the same as in 1989. Overall, fewer than 1,000 complaints have been filed out of more than 300,000 residential transactions, according to the Department of Real Estate.

But formal complaints don't take into account general feelings of unrest and fear expressed by many recent buyers. Those immeasurable issues are definitely on the upswing, real estate agents say.

"Two years ago, you'd hear people at every cocktail party talk about what a wise real estate investor they were," said Bill Mitchell, who heads corporate marketing for the Irvine Co. "You don't hear that kind of talk anymore. People don't like to brag about losing money."

But even as they point out that buyers' expectations are causing some discontent in the housing industry, builders and marketing experts are quick to tout the economic benefits of owning a house.

"I still believe you'd be hard pressed to find anybody who has lost money on a house over a five-year period of time," Mitchell said.

And the situation is hardly dire, local economists note. Chapman College, which does the most detailed analysis of Orange County, last week predicted that by 1992, Orange County homes again will be appreciating faster than the inflation rate, with annual appreciation of 9.4 percent by 1995.

Already, the Lyon Co.'s Sherman points out that he's noticed some "bottom fishers" beginning to buy houses at his company's developments.

"We're starting to see buyers who believe this is the bottom of the housing market," Sherman said.

Still, despite his belief that housing prices soon will go up, Sherman said his company in June began issuing a disclosure statement in every new-home sales contract, pointing out that the builder is not responsible for fluctuations in the housing market.
 
<p>It also proves Chapman's predictions were terribily wrong as prices kept going down and losing to inflation.</p>

<p>Bill Mitchell from The Irvine Co. said "I still believe you would be hard pressed to find anybody who has lost money on a house over a five-year period of time." Oops not only did it go down the next five years but if you bought in 1990 it took ten years to break even after adjusting for inflation.</p>

<p>The job losses had just started at this point and really did not have much of an impact yet. I found some other gems that paint a rosy picture very similar to what we are seeing today. More can be found on my blog as well.</p>

<p>The question is: Is it really different this time? </p>
 
"Bottom fishers!!!" YESSS!!! Priceless.





Best old school bubble article since <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D04EEDA153BF934A2575BC0A967948260">these</a> <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E05E3D71538F93BA35751C1A962948260">classics</a>.




 
<p>I love this one from the times article: "The economics of housing inflation were such that for a long period, lenders made mortgage loans at rates substantially below the appreciation of the houses they were loaned upon and in some years, noticeably below even the trend line for inflation. This cheap credit fueled the takeoff of the boom. As prices rose to stratospheric levels, the price history itself fed the boom. Real estate agents assured buyers that however high prices were, they would go even higher."</p>

<p>But of course it is different this time right?</p>

<p>One more from the times: But what a bubble it was.</p>
 
<p>I somehow missed that there were two articles.</p>

<p>From the second article: "It was a superboom, with miserable bungalows in Santa Monica running up from $40,000 in 1974 to $400,000 by 1980."</p>

<p>$400,000 today would be just shy of $1 million when adjusted for inflation. So what does a miserable bungalow in Santa Monica cost today? MLS# <nobr><strong>07_169269. </strong>A 1168 sqft 3 bedroom 2 bath bungalow on a 3166 sqft oversized lot for the area on the market for 17 days </nobr><nobr>reduced on 3/23 from $979k to $899k.</nobr></p>

<p><nobr>When adjusted for inflation if you bought this place for $400k in 1980 and were to sell it today you would be losing money. </nobr></p>

<p><nobr>Would smart money buy today?</nobr></p>
 
<p>Mrs. SCHB and I stopped by again on our bike ride this afternoon to check in on the protest.</p>

<p>There were two guys manning the post, and they said they didn't have any copies of amendment G to share. (they didn't seem interested)</p>

<p>I asked if they had contacted the OC Register about their battle, and they had and were told that if they filed a complaint with the state RE commissioner, the Register would do a story on them. They said they would file the complaint this week.</p>

<p>SCHB</p>
 
Hi graphrix,





Depending on the rental income, the cottage might've worked as a long-term investment / income property. But I wouldn't buy in Santa Monica due to rent control.
 
<p>What happened to all the self proclaimed "real estate investors" in a down market? All of a sudden, all these "investors", their uncles, cousins, and buddies (typically known as "joint venture partners") are standing on the side of the street with signs? If any of these individuals are familiar with the building industry, they would know that Lyon Homes has one of the best reputations of any of the builders. Similar to Shea, Fieldstone, and John Laign, Lyon is a company built on tradition, integrity, and pride. For these people to flatly accuse Lyon of "promising" they will not drop price is outright ridiculous not to mention making themselves look like fools.</p>

<p>You will find language similar to section "G" in every single one of the purchase agreements executed by builders. And if you're wondering, the reason the purchase agreements are 50+ pages is because of individuals like these standing on the side of the road. They sue because they can't buy a house, they sue because they bought a house, they sue if their cat ate a mouse and had diarrhea! That is exactly why builders make people sign owner occupancy agreements.....to discourage wanna be investors. If you don't plan on living in your house for 10 years if you have to, DON'T BUY IT! Go to Vegas, buy the lottery, or invest in stocks! The odds are better!</p>

<p>Check the numbers! land never depreciates in the long run. There are 10 year cycles magnified by so called "investors" and unfortunately, we are right in the middle of the down turn that started in early 2006. The majority of the people who purchased in 2004, 2005, and early 2006 will find that their home is now worth 15-30% less now than when they purchased it. However, to qualify the land comment, building depreciate and decrease in value over time. However, the residual land values continues to increase.</p>

<p>Hundreds of thousands of dollars goes into economic forecasting, market prediction, not to mention maintaining the entire team of attorneys in every builders' office. Not only are these accusations ridiculous, they are in for a long and drawn legal battle if they keep this up. </p>

<p>Enough typing, my fingers are cramping up. </p>
 
<p>I never saw any MSM articles on the protest and it appears the protesters may have capitulated.</p>

<p>There are whispers that the group may have received a legal nastygram from the builder.</p>

<p>Has anyone seen them in the last few weeks?</p>

<p>SCHB</p>
 
I got a copy of this amendment G. It's just like any other contracts saying this contract superceeds any verbal agreements, blah blah blah. I doubt these people will have any legal grounds to stand on if they decided to sue, even if the "promise" came from the CEO himself.
 
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