Presidential Candidate Thread: Is Ron Paul good for the country?

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The problem I've read about revoking birthright citizenship is that it's possible it leaves the child as a citizen of no country. Since they are not born in their parents' source of origin, that country is not required to grant citizenship.





It's troubling for Paul to state that he would be against it considering it's in the 14th amendment. Perhaps he considers amendments to be less "viable" than what was included in the original articles?





Regardless, it should take another amendment to repeal that provision.





In my view, the best way to root out this issue is to stop giving business full legal exemption for hiring illegals. Give them the tools to verify immigration status and punish them if they don't. Attack the issue at it's source.
 
Bishie, or anyone - why would higher social security taxes for higher incomes mean that I should not contribute to my 401k over the match this year (2007). I do understand the max on soc. sec. tax just don't understand how that relates to my 401k??
 
If you expect higher taxes in the future either through higher marginal rates or higher social security withholdings it may be more beneficial to pay taxes now than pay taxes in the future. In effect if you contribute funds in excess of your match to your 401k you are not paying taxes now in exchange for paying taxes later when you withdraw the funds. Generally you assume that your tax rate in retirement may be lower (especially if you're planning to move to a lower state income tax state). In effect by contributing you can move income from CA, NY, or PA to FL thus eliminating your state tax burden on CA earned income. If you are planning to be in CA during retirement you may see higher state tax burden as well since the state's fiscal health is quite poor. Further complicating things many people find they prefer to do some work during retirement which can increase your AGI and make more of your SS and 401k income taxable. Even if you truely hate doing your current job you may find yourself bored sitting around all day and feel like doing something especially in early retirement.
 
thanks bishie, now that you spell it out I actually heard something similar recently about 401k and it has been sort of brewing in my mind as to how much we should be contributing! now I have heard it twice - if I hear it again I suppose someone is trying to tell me something!
 
@ bishie: Thanks for the fantastic posts and I appreciate your insight. The more I think about it, I agree Ron Paul would be a great candidate however the American people are not likely to go with it. Hillary is viewed as the "complete opposite" of Little Bush in nearly every aspect and that seems to be what is appealing to the voters right now.



@ EvaLSeraphim: Thank you too for the response. Your efforts here are recognized and appreciated however we may have taken a wrong turn somewhere. My interest is not in arm wrestling people I do not know online for something that won?t make a bit of difference; rather, I am interested in exploring creative, new, or even controversial ideas--something, anything progressive. From my experience there has never been a shortage of people willing to take a stand on what not to do and then not follow up with any alternatives. It is not unlike running a meeting in my office building: A dozen people will organize into a room for a brainstorming session to resolve the fire of the day and generally a few people will offer ideas, but most everyone will sit back and focus their efforts on discussing why that person?s idea will not work rather than spending the energy focusing on the issue. People attending my meetings aren?t allowed to just sit back and just say ?No? without offering some sort of alternative idea--no matter how crazy it may be. Doing so seems to foster progress and minimize people?s fear of criticism.



Anyway, back on track, I?ll do my best to quickly fill in the gaps out of respect and maybe you will agree that continuing down this rat hole is too exhausting:



* Unemployement: The original comment was made to awgee and maybe I misinterpreted this as ?How would America pay for welfare programs? based on the direction of the conversation, so I simply offered my thoughts.



* The Poor: I guess in my mind, not all poor are destitute, but all destitute are poor. I grew up poor raised by a single mother on welfare, but I wouldn?t say we were destitute. Also, I didn't say poor people are lazy, however, I would say my mom is lazy because I?ve never known her to work a day in her life.



* Neutral: Maybe ?non-interventionist policies? is what I meant here as opposed to either expansionism or isolationism. Yes, I support the idea of giving our military a rest for a while and focus being defensive rather than offensive.



* Immigration: My wife is from Taiwan and it was brutal jumping through all the hoops necessary to obtain legal status for her. Legal status took over 4 years to obtain and it didn't help that 9/11 threw immigration processing into gridlock just before we applied. There were times when I felt it would?ve been easier to take her into Mexico and sneak her into the country. I would love to share our horror stories and I can not imagine what other people go through. The immigration process must be reformed to be more efficient and provide an incentive for people to do it legally. Like water, most people will take the path of least resistance.



* Securing Borders: To me, immigration is only a part of it--like performing thorough background checks. Developing the right technologies is another--such as defense shields and dirty bomb detection etc. etc...



* Education: Forgive me if I am wrong about the status quo, but If the children can?t even balance a checkbook by the time they graduate high school, how can we expect them to have enough capacity to be more than just burger flippers? Or even Realtors? :-) lol, okay, we?ll leave that question rhetorical, but I am not okay with the status quo and money spend on military abroad could be invested in the children and society instead. I would like more to be done here before the world starts passing us by.



* Smaller government: The government is spending money without regard to income taxes. The key word here is ?income? taxes because I fully support other necessary fees, tolls, consumption taxes, etc. I?m simply trying to imagine what government would look like if income taxes were returned to the people. Again, I love discussing new and creative ideas, but I abhor those actions which immediately shoot these ideas down before they?ve been fully explored or tested.



* 10 Things: Ugh. I?m not the one running for election here. Maybe your favorite candidate is perfect and you support a big government. I totally respect your opinion. The linked graphic should make me feel appreciative I?m not paying more taxes? <sarcasm>



Again, thanks for your responses EvaLSeraphim because it was fun reading and I respect your concerns. Please excuse me from participating further in this type of discussion. I?m not here to sell you or anybody anything. I completely understand politics is a highly volatile topic and I simply found something that piqued my interest and wanted to hear the opinions of the IHB community. Thanks!
 
<p>the biggest problem in current politics (aside from gun control - :) joke!) is the fact that neither side can believe that the other side's opinions actually have some validity - even when they are vastly different from their own. Only when we accept that another person has a reason for believing what they do - and that reason probably has some validity - can we then even consider swaying them to our side. This thread was great - I never even gave Ron Paul a second thought before happening on it the other day. </p>
 
I think it would be wonderful if all those who think Ron Paul would be the best candidate for Prez, myself included, would actually vote for him, no matter if we think he can win. Even if he did not win, it would make a heck of a statement and let folks know that there are many who think The Constitution is still valid. I am voting for him in the primaries.
 
I don't think voting for him in the primaries is a wasted vote at all. He seems to be the only candidate actually espousing conservative values.
 
<p>Adam, </p>

<p>Do you work for the Paul campaign....or are you some sort of political strategist ? Just curious because you only created an account to add this discussion (a thought provoking one, I might add). </p>
 
@ Trooper: No on both accounts and I wouldn't even claim to belonging to a party--just searching for the best candidate to represent me and I appreciate you asking.



Actually my wife and I relocated from the upper Midwest to Irvine in Jan/2005 and were being deemed "bitter renters" after deciding to hold off buying and risk being priced out forever. Nobody we had met shared the same views on housing as we did until I found Chuck Ponzi's blog in March then IHB a couple weeks later. As a daily reader, my interaction was simply the comment section of IrvineRenter's posts until a couple months ago I began reading the forum. After a few dozen of topics fly by where I would've commented upon, did I finally cave in and register.



Chuck Ponzi had made a post or comment on his blog which mentioned Ron Paul much earlier this year however the name didn't stick with me at the time. So after I came across the YouTube video a few days ago (from where I can not remember), something stuck and I then wanted to hear the thoughts of the IHB community from whom I have learned so much. In short, I'm a long time lurker; first time poster and unfortunately many of you wouldn't know me from, well, Adam. :-)
 
<p>I guess Ron Paul is listed as other...</p>

<p><img title="" height="696" alt=" " width="531" src="http://www.economist.com/images/20071103/CUS271.gif" /></p>
 
Adam,


<em>


>>Please excuse me from participating further in this type of discussion.</em>





That's fine. You threw a lot of stuff out there at me, so it seemed like I ought to respond, especially to generalities. I would also note that there have been times in my life where a candidate or idea was appealing on its face, and not until someone pointed out a different perspective or the effect of that idea, did I think on it further and realize that while facially appealing, the idea or candidate was not so great. Similarly, sometimes parts of a package are great, but others are really bad, and with a presidential candidate, you get the whole kit and caboodle, not just the parts you like. There is a lot to think about.





<em> >>I would say my mom is lazy because I’ve never known her to work a day in her life.</em>





Or maybe you were just a handful to raise.
 
If you support Ron Paul, please go to his website and make a donation today. He's already raised over $2M today alone and is hoping to beat Mitt Romney's record 1 day total of $3.1 M in one day. Thanks!
 
Paul raises more than 3.5M in one day in commemoration of Guy Fawkes Day:





<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071106/ap_on_el_pr/paul_fundraising_3">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071106/ap_on_el_pr/paul_fundraising_3</a>
 
Here's the final total from yesterday:





<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/%7Er/RonPaul2008/%7E3/180353074/we-just-keep-go.html" onclick="toggle_update(this);return false;">We just keep going!</a> (11/5/07)



<p>Is it possible to comprehend what we've done today? Earth-shattering, jaw-dropping... No matter which way you phrase it, Ron Paul is for real.</p>

<p>Over <strong>$3,800,000</strong> raised.</p>

<p>More than <strong>35,000</strong> total donations.</p>

<p><strong>1</strong> message - and <strong>1</strong> candidate - unlike any other.</p>

<p>Can we keep our momentum going? The most successful fundraising day ever is John Kerry's $5.7 million. And that was on the day he accepted the Democratic nomination.</p>

<p>Let's do it: https://www.ronpaul2008.com/donate</p>

<p>Jonathan Bydlak


Fundraising Director


Ron Paul 2008</p>
 
Greenwald (gay and pretty far left) wrote a very good article on Paul:





<a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/11/06/paul/index.html">http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/11/06/paul/index.html</a>





Bottom line: Agree or disagree with what he says, but he's impressed with his principled stand nonetheless.
 
Thanks, jwbrown77, for the article. I also enjoyed perusing through both the supporting and non-supporting comments. He's a very intriguing candidate at the very least. And as I continue to understand all the candidates better, Ron paul my the yardstick thus far.



Edit: Not surprisingly, many comments are made in a duck hunt fashion where the writers will simply shoot and kill whatever it is they may deem as "wrong" and then fail to follow up with who they support instead and why. Maybe it is just me, but often I feel it is the easy way out for someone to just throw up a wall and then walk away. It doesn't take very many walls to realize you are now stuck in a dead end and that can't be good for anybody. ;-)
 
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