President Trump

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Liar Loan said:
fortune11 said:
They are coming from the 1,5 trillion deficit that is on you, me and all our children . 
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It's hard to take this argument seriously when the people making it supported Obama's $6 trillion deficit just a few short years ago.

Not only that, but where were you when Obama cut taxes in 2009, and also when he proposed cutting the corporate tax rate in 2012?  Were your children fine back then?

This all boils down to one thing... opposition to Trump. 

If Obama had proposed this exact same tax bill, the media would be declaring it the greatest tax reform bill of our lifetimes, and all of the lefty TI posters would be talking about how sensible it is.
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I actually don't have a problem with deficit spending...I want to use it for infrastructure spending, which is what the Obama budget had.    And he also called for the Bush tax cut to expire.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/26/news/economy/obama_budget_outline/index.htm

Assume middle class are protected from Alternative Minimum Tax: Every year lawmakers pass a "patch" to protect the middle class from having to pay the Alternative Minimum Tax. But the cost of that patch was not included in presidential budgets before. It is accounted for in Obama's budget.

Tax carried interest as income: Obama wants to tax the portion of profits paid to managers of hedge funds and private equity funds as ordinary income rather than as an investment gain, thereby subjecting it to much higher tax rates than the 15% capital gains rate. The provision is estimated to raise $24 billion over 10 years.

Change several corporate tax measures: In addition to the carried interest provision, the budget request includes roughly $306 billion worth of other revenue raisers that would come from closing corporate tax loopholes and changing some corporate tax and accounting rules.

One of those is a vaguely worded line item called "international enforcement, reform deferral and other tax reform policies." It is estimated to raise $210 billion in revenue over 10 years. It's not clear from the outline what changes are planned. Budget experts say a likely candidate for that category would be a change to a current policy that lets U.S.-based companies defer paying tax on the profits its foreign subsidiaries make until the money is brought back to the United States.
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you-cant-stump-the-trump-volume.jpg
 
Liar Loan said:
fortune11 said:
They are coming from the 1,5 trillion deficit that is on you, me and all our children . 
Click to expand...

It's hard to take this argument seriously when the people making it supported Obama's $6 trillion deficit just a few short years ago.

Not only that, but where were you when Obama cut taxes in 2009, and also when he proposed cutting the corporate tax rate in 2012?  Were your children fine back then?

This all boils down to one thing... opposition to Trump. 

If Obama had proposed this exact same tax bill, the media would be declaring it the greatest tax reform bill of our lifetimes, and all of the lefty TI posters would be talking about how sensible it is.
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This is a layup .  and I am going to red font it so it is easy to digest

um ... there was just this little thing in 2009 called the great financial crisis ? anyone heard of that ? - no biggie but it was just the second worst financial disaster since the Great Depression (when large parts of the country became dustbowls)

what happens in a recession you may ask ? well son, revenues go down and govt needs to spend to help people like you and me recover from it -- i.e. deficit balloons .  this is why it is good to have a little cushion before that crisis  hits .

Obama would have been a hero in your eyes were he not a democrat.  But hey , when you are drinking the  Fox News and tea party  koolaid who can help

BTW you keep calling people " lefties"  , when 65% of the country disapproves Trump , maybe it is the other 35% who is the outlier to the big "center "

If it helps, I am a Obama 08 / Romney 12  voter .  Vote for the right guy at the right time.  thats it .  doesn't matter which party they belong too. 

But this time around , nope.  one party is too far down the rabbit hole of bigotry , slime ball behavior and outright contempt for vast majority of the voters.  There is no " both sideism " anymore in my opinion at this time


 
fortune11 said:
Liar Loan said:
fortune11 said:
They are coming from the 1,5 trillion deficit that is on you, me and all our children . 
Click to expand...

It's hard to take this argument seriously when the people making it supported Obama's $6 trillion deficit just a few short years ago.

Not only that, but where were you when Obama cut taxes in 2009, and also when he proposed cutting the corporate tax rate in 2012?  Were your children fine back then?

This all boils down to one thing... opposition to Trump. 

If Obama had proposed this exact same tax bill, the media would be declaring it the greatest tax reform bill of our lifetimes, and all of the lefty TI posters would be talking about how sensible it is.
Click to expand...

This is a layup .  and I am going to red font it so it is easy to digest

um ... there was just this little thing in 2009 called the great financial crisis ? anyone heard of that ? - no biggie but it was just the second worst financial disaster since the Great Depression (when large parts of the country became dustbowls)

what happens in a recession you may ask ? well son, revenues go down and govt needs to spend to help people like you and me recover from it -- i.e. deficit balloons .  this is why it is good to have a little cushion before that crisis  hits .

Obama would have been a hero in your eyes were he not a democrat.  But hey , when you are drinking the  Fox News and tea party  koolaid who can help

BTW you keep calling people " lefties"  , when 65% of the country disapproves Trump , maybe it is the other 35% who is the outlier to the big "center "

If it helps, I am a Obama 08 / Romney 12  voter .  Vote for the right guy at the right time.  thats it .  doesn't matter which party they belong too. 

But this time around , nope.  one party is too far down the rabbit hole of bigotry , slime ball behavior and outright contempt for vast majority of the voters.  There is no " both sideism " anymore in my opinion at this time
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Also economically...if you are going to deficit spend...do it when the interest rate is like 1%.    In fact, I would say that the US didn't deficit spend enough during the Obama years...we could have fixed all bunch stuff and started entire new industry on like 1% interest.  Every business person would take that loan.

You know when you shouldn't deficit spend?  When interest rates are climbing and you are at the end of a boom cycle...you should cut debt and hunker down.
 
Ok, I'm going to ignore your personal attacks, and just address the topic at hand.

Obama did increase spending in response to the GR, but the problem is Keynesianism is a two-sided coin.  You are supposed to REDUCE spending once the recession ends.  Obama never did that.  He just kept spending, and spending, and spending.  They simply stopped passing budgets during his Presidency.

Your argument also sidesteps the fact that Trump's tax plan looks a lot like Obama's proposed tax plan in 2012.  Obama called for corporate tax cuts, the very thing YOU say is robbing your children.  Romney also wanted to aggressively cut taxes, so voting for him doesn't exonerate you in this matter.

You can't favor tax cuts by Romney, Obama, Bush, etc., but then say "Oh the children!" when Trump does something similar.  His deficit is actually a fraction of what either Bush or Obama ran up, with a better chance of energizing the economy.
 
Liar Loan said:
Ok, I'm going to ignore your personal attacks, and just address the topic at hand.

Obama did increase spending in response to the GR, but the problem is Keynesianism is a two-sided coin.  You are supposed to REDUCE spending once the recession ends.  Obama never did that.  He just kept spending, and spending, and spending.  They simply stopped passing budgets during his Presidency.

Your argument also sidesteps the fact that Trump's tax plan looks a lot like Obama's proposed tax plan in 2012.  Obama called for corporate tax cuts, the very thing YOU say is robbing your children.  Romney also wanted to aggressively cut taxes, so voting for him doesn't exonerate you in this matter.

You can't favor tax cuts by Romney, Obama, Bush, etc., but then say "Oh the children!" when Trump does something similar.  His deficit is actually a fraction of what either Bush or Obama ran up, with a better chance of energizing the economy.
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What?  You are supposed to keep spending during and after a recession to make sure economy is on its legs. 

Time frame and economic context are very different.
 
Yes, his theory of increased government spending during a recession gets all the glory, but it's only half the story.
It is important to understand that the role of the government in the economy is not solely to dampen the effects of recessions or pull a country out of a depression - it also must keep the economy from heating up too quickly. Keynesian economics suggests that the interaction between the government and the overall economy move in the opposite direction of the business cycle: more spending in a downturn, less spending in an upturn. If an economic boom creates high rates of inflation, the government could cut back its spending or increase taxes.
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Read more: Can Keynesian Economics Reduce Boom-Bust Cycles?https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/keynesian-economics.asp#ixzz51wgaENoc
 
Liar Loan said:
Yes, his theory of increased government spending during a recession gets all the glory, but it's only half the story.
It is important to understand that the role of the government in the economy is not solely to dampen the effects of recessions or pull a country out of a depression - it also must keep the economy from heating up too quickly. Keynesian economics suggests that the interaction between the government and the overall economy move in the opposite direction of the business cycle: more spending in a downturn, less spending in an upturn. If an economic boom creates high rates of inflation, the government could cut back its spending or increase taxes.
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Read more: Can Keynesian Economics Reduce Boom-Bust Cycles?https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/keynesian-economics.asp#ixzz51wgaENoc
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Yes...you don't spend in good time.  Doesn't you mean stop spending the moment you get out of a rescission.  In fact, I would argue that the US economy would have done much better both in growth and conversion into 21st century business had it spent a lot more.  Obama could never get that budget passed because GOP kept using the deficit bogeyman.   

But now, totally okay.
 
The recession ended in 2009 so Obama had 8 years to decrease spending, but never did.

And Obama had a Democrat controlled Congress for his first 2 years.  Why wasn't a budget passed in 2011?  Hmmm?  Congress didn't even propose a budget that year.  Why not?

Yet fortune11 wasn't complaining about the children. :'(
 
Liar Loan said:
The recession ended in 2009 so Obama had 8 years to decrease spending, but never did.

And Obama had a Democrat controlled Congress for his first 2 years.  Why wasn't a budget passed in 2011?  Hmmm?  Congress didn't even propose a budget that year.  Why not?

Yet fortune11 wasn't complaining about the children. :'(
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Let's see...2011...GOP controlled Congress.

2009-2010 Obamacare took first priority.

2010 fiscal year was basically the only budget Obama/Dems had.

2011 budget was the grand bargain with John Boehner that the Tea Party blow up.  The one you know Tea Party blocked because of deficit concerns.

And:

2a.jpg


I mean...do you even care about facts or you just send out Fox News lines and see which one sticks?
 
Lots of deflection in your post, but I'm glad to see that you agree with me on this fact:  The Dems not only didn't pass a budget for FY2011, they didn't even propose one.  Oh the children!!  :'(

P.S. The '12 and '13 on your chart are estimates, not actuals.
 
Liar Loan said:
Lots of deflection in your post, but I'm glad to see that you agree with me on this fact:  The Dems not only didn't pass a budget for FY2011, they didn't even propose one.  Oh the children!!  :'(

P.S. The '12 and '13 on your chart are estimates, not actuals.
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Looks like you got really hung up on that one word I used.  So lets take it back, replace "children" with "grandchildren "  or "pets" or whatever you want

So looks like we agree that what Obama proposed was not much different than what Bush, Romney and now Trump are proposing in terms of corporate tax reform.  nothing wrong with that . good .

As irvinecommuter pointed out, Tea Party was the biggest pain in the you-know-what . Those snake on yellow flag bearers ended biting themselves in their rear as the recovery was shallow and we never got the timely corporate tax reform that might have helped even more

But , did you really want to pull back on stimulus in 2011 ? Right when the world was going through another mini recession , thanks to Europe ? Would that have been wise ?

Right now, corporations are drowning in cash and profits .  They don't need tax cuts  , it is like adding fuel to corporate profit fire . It may have helped your stock portfolio , but it will not help your wages that much. 

The tax code needed simplification, what we have now is an even more complicated hodge podge of tax shelters and more creative ways for super rich to circumvent taxes. 
 
Irvinecommuter said:
1)  LOL....the reason why she lost to Obama is because Obama ran a better campaign. 

2)  ISIS is not even close to be defeated.  It's hilarious that you say that.

3)  I am not sidestepping at all.  Libya and Qaddafi are fundamentally different than NK.  NK is the frontline of China/Russia's proxy war against US in Asia.    Only reason why Libya was even an issue is cause the Europeans wanted to get in there for resources.  Fundamentally different situations.
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Less than 1,000 ISIS fighters remain in Iraq and Syria
https://nypost.com/2017/12/27/less-than-1000-isis-fighters-remain-in-iraq-and-syria/

BAGHDAD ? Fewer than 1,000 Islamic State fighters remain in Iraq and Syria, the United States-led international coalition fighting the hardline Sunni militant group said on Wednesday, a third of the estimated figure only three weeks ago.

Iraq and Syria have both declared victory over Islamic State in recent weeks, after a year that saw the two countries? armies, a range of foreign allies and various local forces drive the fighters out of all the towns and villages that once made up their self-proclaimed caliphate.

Assad?s main ally Russia also said on Wednesday the main battle with Islamic State in Syria was over.

The US-led coalition had said on Dec. 5 that there were less than 3,000 fighters remaining. Iraq declared ?final victory? over the group on Dec. 9.
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This is from RT, so I don't know how credible it is. They did, however help get Trump elected so maybe they know more than I give them credit
https://www.rt.com/news/414048-afghanistan-isis-numbers-rise/[quote][b]ISIShas over 10,000 fighters in Afghanistan, more arriving from Syria & Iraq [/b]

The terrorist group Islamic State has over 10,000 loyal fighters in Afghanistan, and Moscow believes the US may be underestimating their threat, Russia?s special envoy says.
Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS) was pushed out of their home base in Syria and Iraq this year by separate military operations of a US-led coalition, and the Syrian Army backed by Russia. Many of the IS fighters who fled those countries ended up in Afghanistan, where the terrorist group has as many as 10,000 troops at the moment, Zamir Kabulov, the head of the Middle East department in the Russian Foreign Ministry, said.[/quote]

Then there is this from the NY Times
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/25/world/asia/eastern-afghanistan-isis.html



 
Speaking of Making America Great Again...

Black unemployment rate falls to record low

Unemployment among black workers is at its lowest since at least the early 1970s, when the government began tracking the data.

The black unemployment rate of 6.8 percent in December was the lowest since the Bureau of Labor Statistics started tracking it in 1972, a year in which the rate ranged from 11.2 percent to 9.4 percent. In the 45 years the data has been tracked, the unemployment rate for black or African-American workers aged 16 years and older has never fallen below 7 percent.
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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/05/black-unemployment-rate-falls-to-record-low.html
 
morekaos said:
Winning!!

Toyota, Mazda to build $1.6 billion plant in Alabama

The plant is a huge win for President Donald Trump's administration which has made a point of stressing it would add manufacturing jobs.

The plant is projected to employ about 4,000 workers and produce approximately 300,000 vehicles a year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/09/toyota-mazda-to-build-1-point-6-billion-plant-in-alabama.html
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Wait...you think they planned this after Trump got elected? 

Sources for months have said the decision was between North Carolina and Alabama. The Raleigh News & Observer is reporting that North Carolina lost out on the plant because it does not have the supply chain logistics that the car companies desire.

Toyota Motor Corp. and Mazda Motor Corp. announced in August a joint venture to build a $1.6 billion assembly plant in the U.S. which would create 4,000 jobs and be up and running by 2021.
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http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/2018/01/alabama_picked_for_toyota-mazd.html

I mean why not thank Doug Jones?

Back in August:

The plant is projected to be operational by 2021, but a location has not been announced. Analysts say southeastern sites may have a better shot because of existing supply chains with plants already located there. Employment in the automotive sector in Alabama tops 57,000, with 25,000 jobs in the automotive supplier chains among more than 160 companies.
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http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/2017/08/report_alabama_on_short_list_f.html
 
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