President Trump

[Movingup]

I gave Trump a chance to show who he was when he was a candidate. He showed who he was. I cannot give that man any more chances. You want me to give a chance to the man who would not even say that he would endorse the election results unless he won? You want me to give a chance to the man who questioned the legitimacy of our previous President for 7 years? Why should I do more for him than he is willing to do for others? If he were a decent human, I would. But he is an example of the worst of humanity. The Presidency magnifies a person's faults. President Trump is going to be a nightmare.

Really? It's pretty surprising you once gave Trump a chance? I don't have the time you have to keep arguing and the stuff you said are pretty far left, so there is no point of doing so. Your support of Obama and the democrats obviously meant that you don't care much about middle class have suffered because of the economic policies, illegal immigration, Obamacare, national security, etc. But, if you don't want to live in a nightmare for the next 4 years, you can always find your paradise in other countries.

 

[tim]

I gave Trump a chance to show who he was when he was a candidate. He showed who he was. I cannot give that man any more chances. You want me to give a chance to the man who would not even say that he would endorse the election results unless he won? You want me to give a chance to the man who questioned the legitimacy of our previous President for 7 years? Why should I do more for him than he is willing to do for others? If he were a decent human, I would. But he is an example of the worst of humanity. The Presidency magnifies a person's faults. President Trump is going to be a nightmare.

Really? It's pretty surprising you once gave Trump a chance? I don't have the time you have to keep arguing and the stuff you said are pretty far left, so there is no point of doing so. Your support of Obama and the democrats obviously meant that you don't care much about middle class have suffered because of the economic policies, illegal immigration, Obamacare, national security, etc. But, if you don't want to live in a nightmare for the next 4 years, you can always find your paradise in other countries.

Wow, your leap in "logic" is amazing. I actually DO care about the middle class. But, I don't think Trump is the answer. I think he will make things worse. Trump is the one that doesn't care about the middle class. He has never shown any concern for the group. I do not believe that he suddenly decided to care about them. If a friend said his fiance never gave him a blowjob, but said that she said she would after they get married, I would tell him to not count on it.

No, I won't leave my country.

I am sorry that you are quitting the conversation. I would be interested to know which economic policies under Obama have hurt the middle class and how Trump is going to help them.

You are right that stopping illegal immigration is not one of my top concerns.

As I have said, I think Trump and the Repub Congress will make improvements to Obamacare and then claim credit. Though the Congress could have made improvements this year, but has been obstructionist to the point of hurting the poor and middle class.

I will be surprised if Trump makes any improvements in national security that don't sacrifice our freedom.

 

[riznick]

On that note...  IMO, Obama has been the most polarizing divisive president that I've seen in my lifetime.  He could have been so much more.  He could have been great.

----

P.S. I am not a Trump supporter.  I didn't vote for Trump.

I'm not sure what Obama could do when the Repub Congress made it their main goal to work against him from the very start.

Deflect the blame?  It was an "us" vs "them" approach for both sides. 

Obama could have tried harder to work with Congress, rather than be condescending every chance he could.  Obama didn't have to be so polarizing.  And this behavior started before the republicans got control.

 

[tim]

On that note...  IMO, Obama has been the most polarizing divisive president that I've seen in my lifetime.  He could have been so much more.  He could have been great.

----

P.S. I am not a Trump supporter.  I didn't vote for Trump.

I'm not sure what Obama could do when the Repub Congress made it their main goal to work against him from the very start.

Deflect the blame?  It was an "us" vs "them" approach for both sides. 

Obama could have tried harder to work with Congress, rather than be condescending every chance he could.  Obama didn't have to be so polarizing.  And this behavior started before the republicans got control.

I agree that he could have done more to work with Congress. That was definitely not an area of strength for him. I guess both groups can share blame. The Republicans actually did say before he was inaugurated that they were going to oppose him on everything. And this was during the financial crisis.

Well, I am glad that one party is in control of the government. Now when things don't go well, there can be no cross-blame. Of course, I expect lots of Trump voters to still do mental gymnastics to find a way to blame others.

 

[peppy]

On that note...  IMO, Obama has been the most polarizing divisive president that I've seen in my lifetime.  He could have been so much more.  He could have been great.

----

P.S. I am not a Trump supporter.  I didn't vote for Trump.

I'm not sure what Obama could do when the Repub Congress made it their main goal to work against him from the very start.

Deflect the blame?  It was an "us" vs "them" approach for both sides. 

Obama could have tried harder to work with Congress, rather than be condescending every chance he could.  Obama didn't have to be so polarizing.  And this behavior started before the republicans got control.

I agree that he could have done more to work with Congress. That was definitely not an area of strength for him. I guess both groups can share blame. The Republicans actually did say before he was inaugurated that they were going to oppose him on everything. And this was during the financial crisis.

Well, I am glad that one party is in control of the government. Now when things don't go well, there can be no cross-blame. Of course, I expect lots of Trump voters to still do mental gymnastics to find a way to blame others.

It's already being set up as Soros' fault ... and "his people" wink-wink nod-nod

 

[morekaos]

This is a mirror image of 2008. The opposing side does what you should expect...oppose.  C'mon the blame game goes both ways too...Obama still is blaming Bush for all his woes...still!! The difference is Bush, Reagan, and Clinton found ways to work with the opposition.  Obama, after 2012 gave up and ruled with a pen.  Problem is, without legislative backing, all that he did on his own can be undone with a different pen.  He sowed what he reaped.

 

[tim]

Obama, after 2012 gave up and ruled with a pen.  Problem is, without legislative backing, all that he did on his own can be undone with a different pen.  He sowed what he reaped.

He ruled with a pen because the Republicans said they would do nothing except oppose him. They said this BEFORE he took office. This is BEFORE he had a chance to sow or reap. He could have tried to pass legislation that they wanted, and they still would have opposed it because they didn't want him to get credit for anything. He tried to increase infrastructure spending. Congress said no. He tried to make improvements to Obamacare to deal with the affordability. Congress said no. Now watch Congress pass those things.

And now that we are ditching the TPP, China will grow stronger.http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-38060980
And somehow that will also be Obama's fault.

 

[Liar Loan]

Old, white people do love their white privilige. My hope rests in knowing that the average lifespan in America is 79 years. Hopefully there won't be enough Trump voters alive to vote for him again.

Actually seems to me that Trump won the election because, while the Republican vote was down, the Democrat vote was down more. In the end, people voted for their tribe.

This is the same argument that was made as to why Trump couldn't be elected in the first place.  His was a dying demographic.

My hope rests in seeing that you, and others that think like you, haven't learned the correct lessons from this election.

 

[peppy]

Old, white people do love their white privilige. My hope rests in knowing that the average lifespan in America is 79 years. Hopefully there won't be enough Trump voters alive to vote for him again.

Actually seems to me that Trump won the election because, while the Republican vote was down, the Democrat vote was down more. In the end, people voted for their tribe.

This is the same argument that was made as to why Trump couldn't be elected in the first place.  His was a dying demographic.

My hope rests in seeing that you, and others that think like you, haven't learned the correct lessons from this election.

There are some pretty interesting post election analytics at 538. Worth a read, especially how OC fits into the trend of highly educated, majority-minority trends. Panda's Fulton County is #2 on that list. 

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/

 

[Ready2Downsize]

"Old, white people do love their white privilige."

At least a prejudiced if not a racist comment.

"My hope rests in knowing that the average lifespan in America is 79 years. Hopefully there won't be enough Trump voters alive to vote for him again."

And your fear should be that Trump actually does a good job and gets re-elected.

 

[tim]

"Old, white people do love their white privilige."

At least a prejudiced if not a racist comment.

I notice you don't claim it isn't true.

"My hope rests in knowing that the average lifespan in America is 79 years. Hopefully there won't be enough Trump voters alive to vote for him again."

And your fear should be that Trump actually does a good job and gets re-elected.

I have no fear of that. I am quite confident it won't happen. (Of course, I was also quite confident that people would not vote for such an offensive person, so...I may not be the best at predictions.) If he actually does a good job, then that would be great. It would be UGE!

 

[Ready2Downsize]

Not true.

I'm an old white person and I have NO white privilege other than to see taxpayer money, including MINE go to food stamp fraud, free medical care for illegals (and do NOT try to tell me that isn't true. I worked in Labor and Delivery for years and KNOW FOR A FACT it is), free and better medical care for those who join the knife and gun club.......... cut em up, stitch em back up, release them and oops...... here they are again on MY dime, section nine housing for illegals including ahem one of Obama's relatives here way past her visa.

My brother died of cancer when he was 28. He couldn't qualify for med-I-cal cuz he was WHITE. He had to sit and wait, practically half dead (literally) at the county for hours to be told he doesn't qualify CUZ HE'S WHITE only to see well dressed able bodied looking people arrive later than him, whine they didn't have time to wait and needed a translator qualify with not even ID and drive off in brand new cars. He had NO JOB (had been laid off from Boeing in the early 90's recession and grabbed his cobra benefit. ALL of his unemployment went to his cobra premiums and his truck payment. He lived at my mom's house (no rent, food or utilities charged) for the one year he lived a life of hell in chemo till he died. The doctors took his payment and waived his remaining fees.

THAT is what our damned white privilege got us and if you think this crap isn't still going on you live in denial land.

 

[Ready2Downsize]

Oh and we had the county jail contract. We got girls mostly from "the farm", low level crime but we talked to the sheriff deputies ALOT and lo and behold, low life lifetime members of the knife and gun club even got FREE (not really free, charged to the PRIVILEDGED OLD WHITE PEOPLE STUPID ENOUGH TO NOT KNOW WHERE THEIR TAXPAYER MONEY GOES) plastic surgery! These CONVICTED CRIMINALS who shot police, killed other people etc got plastic surgery and didn't pay a dime for it. AND NOW they can get free transgender medical care and surgery on guess who's money? THE OLD WHITE PRIVILEGED people.

Next time you go to the grocery store, you watch what people buy. You watch how they pay and if that screen says EBT do NOT think it's a damned credit card they are using. They are paying with TAXPAYER money. And yeah they live in Irvine not just Santa Ana.

 

[eyephone]

Oh and we had the county jail contract. We got girls mostly from "the farm", low level crime but we talked to the sheriff deputies ALOT and lo and behold, low life lifetime members of the knife and gun club even got FREE (not really free, charged to the PRIVILEDGED OLD WHITE PEOPLE STUPID ENOUGH TO NOT KNOW WHERE THEIR TAXPAYER MONEY GOES) plastic surgery! These CONVICTED CRIMINALS who shot police, killed other people etc got plastic surgery and didn't pay a dime for it. AND NOW they can get free transgender medical care and surgery on guess who's money? THE OLD WHITE PRIVILEGED people.

Next time you go to the grocery store, you watch what people buy. You watch how they pay and if that screen says EBT do NOT think it's a damned credit card they are using. They are paying with TAXPAYER money. And yeah they live in Irvine not just Santa Ana.

Regarding wasted tax payer money, that's what I have been previously talking about.

 

[Ready2Downsize]

Speaking of free medical care for inmates from the farm. We had a few white girls go to a store, wait for a cashier to watch them and shoplift knowing they would be turned in. First timers probably not going to jail but repeaters would.

ONLY white girls did this. Other cultures/races got med-I-cal. But the white girls could get free care if they were in jail so that is what several did.

County got wise and tried to release inmates if they were in actual labor so they could get out of paying for their care.

 

[riznick]

IMO, the term "White privilege" is insulting.  It's frequently and dishonestly used as a tool to brainwash white people into being ashamed of their skin color.  It works.  White shaming works very well. 

 

[nyc to oc]

Oh and we had the county jail contract. We got girls mostly from "the farm", low level crime but we talked to the sheriff deputies ALOT and lo and behold, low life lifetime members of the knife and gun club even got FREE (not really free, charged to the PRIVILEDGED OLD WHITE PEOPLE STUPID ENOUGH TO NOT KNOW WHERE THEIR TAXPAYER MONEY GOES) plastic surgery! These CONVICTED CRIMINALS who shot police, killed other people etc got plastic surgery and didn't pay a dime for it. AND NOW they can get free transgender medical care and surgery on guess who's money? THE OLD WHITE PRIVILEGED people.

Next time you go to the grocery store, you watch what people buy. You watch how they pay and if that screen says EBT do NOT think it's a damned credit card they are using. They are paying with TAXPAYER money. And yeah they live in Irvine not just Santa Ana.

gee. I wonder who you voted for.

Your post makes it sound like only old white people are the ones paying the taxes, and only people of color and immigrants are "takers" of government benefits. But of course, you didn't actually mean to imply that, did you? Not when social security and medicare are two of the biggest government entitlement programs in this country? Who uses those? 76% of medicare recipients in this country are white. 

Who are "taxpayers"? White people only? I'm a young person of color, and I paid close to 40% of my income in taxes last year, total effective rate, not marginal rate. By the time I'm done with my working years, I will have paid far in excess into the social security system than I can ever expect to get out, if social security as a system is even still intact by the time I reach retirement age.  You sold your old house in Northwood Pointe at a huge profit, to who? A person of color.  What nurse could reasonably expect to live in a neighborhood of 2 million dollar houses if they tried to buy into the same neighborhood in the current day and age? You profited because your age/generation cohort positioned you in a way to be able to ride the real estate boom in a way that I doubt younger generations will ever be able to.

You, as a property-owning white member of the baby boomer generation, have benefited due to immigration into this state--immigrants driving up real estate prices, immigrants driving down the cost of labor for construction, domestic work, restaurant work, even driving down the prices of food due to artificially low agricultural labor costs. So yes, I would say there is privilege. You may not feel like it because you and your family worked hard, and you may feel like you earned your comforts based on your hard work, but that does not mean there is not systemic privilege built into the entire economic/political system of the U.S., and that does not mean that other people have not worked equally hard but may not have profited in the same manner due to accidents of age, birth or color. It takes both luck and hard work to achieve success in life.

And by the way, I have seen plenty of white patients on MediCal. Your brother's story is a sad one, but I highly doubt the reason he did not qualify for MediCal was solely because of his race, rather than other specific factors that we are not privy to.

 

[Ready2Downsize]

My post was in response to this:

Tim: Old, white people do love their white privilige."

Me: At least a prejudiced if not a racist comment.

Tim: I notice you don't claim it isn't true.

I never said ONLY non white people get med-I-cal which is welfare. It isn't anything the receiver paid into. I never said anything about white people not collecting medicare or social security which are both programs that recipients paid into, they are not welfare and both are more expensive or reduced benefits for those who earn more while they receive those benefits and both are taxed more if one earns more before receiving benefits.

Let me be clear on this........... I am an immigrant myself as is my mother. She studied to take a test to be an American citizen and was proud when she was granted citizenship. My dad was a military guy who went to school at night to become an engineer.

They both worked hard but neither spent one dime putting me thru school and in fact would not fill out any forms for financial aid as they considered it welfare. I paid for my college education while working full time at a donut shop for $2 per hour and rode the bus to school, yes the bus because I had no car........ where was I supposed to get the money for THAT? When I got out of school, I had student loans which I paid off.

No one paid a penny for our wedding either. Nada......... no help for either of us in ANYTHING.

We scrimped and saved every penny we had to put down on a townhome when rates were 13%. We lived paycheck to paycheck and I worked two jobs as an RN. My hubby had one job and went to school to get his MBA.......... also racking up more student loans.

We didn't even have two cars until I had been an RN for TWELVE YEARS! We got by on ONE CAR in the OC, mostly my hubby rode the bus to work or carpooled. I worked EVERY WEEKEND and as much OT on the night shift as I could till we saved up enough to get another car AFTER paying off school loans and medical bills.

I had complications with every pregnancy and paid off those debts too, always making sure we had enough money to have kids. And what did I hear from one girl when I came back from having my last baby? Why don't you want another one? YOU GET MORE MONEY IF YOU HAVE MORE KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right........ I still had medicals bills coming in and this girl who didn't pay one thin dime for her "insurance" (welfare) got the same care on my dime.

And then lets talk about the food stamps I paid for....... no problem with that but use a damn coupon at the store and the cashiers acted like I was stealing from their pocket.

We to this day do a lot of our own home improvements, our own landscaping and I have never had a housekeeper.

Did I benefit from housing going up? You bet, that after I saw my house value drop to below what I paid MORE THAN ONCE! Geesh, everyone acts like the last downturn was the only one we've had. No it wasn't and I lived thru some of my own.

I gotta say, we were probably the poorest ones in our old neighborhood. But we saved and saved and saved for years before buying that house and got a nice downpayment. We did some of our upgrades ourselves which allowed us to pay for other stuff and you know what? There were some people who snubbed their noses at our old cars and thought we didn't have a pot to pee in............ till they came to our open house and then guess what? Those same neighbors put their house up for sale and whatcha know........................... every standard thing that came with the house was what was still there, along with cheap mini blinds and original carpet.

We did have some luck with getting stock options and in fact some of those options led to our MASSIVE (for me anyway) wash sale loss (we still have $3.6 MILLION in carry forward losses, this after accounting for the gain that was over 500K when we sold our last house). The other houses we made very little on and three of them we had to wait for the market to come back to get back to break even. So you who pay so damned much, I'm sure that $3.6 million the feds are holding in carry forwards from us (that doesn't count the state!) is peanuts, but to me............... it's a whole lot of tax I paid that I will NEVER see again (and of course that doesn't even count the tax I owed that year not subject to the wash rule and it's completely WASTED by a government that loves using OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY. Oh and the cap gains rate was higher when I got those losses but who cares? I'll see very little of that carry forward. If Trump somehow raised that to $100K per year instead of the $3K it's been for decades, I'd still never use it up. To put it in more basic terms........... those carry forwards are the equivalent of "prepaid" $90,000 in federal taxes for 40 years in addition to the taxes we have and pay every year.

Do I have white privilege? Maybe but any black, yellow, red, brown or green person could have worked their way to what I have if they had applied themselves.

 

[WTTCHMN]

Oh and we had the county jail contract. We got girls mostly from "the farm", low level crime but we talked to the sheriff deputies ALOT and lo and behold, low life lifetime members of the knife and gun club even got FREE (not really free, charged to the PRIVILEDGED OLD WHITE PEOPLE STUPID ENOUGH TO NOT KNOW WHERE THEIR TAXPAYER MONEY GOES) plastic surgery! These CONVICTED CRIMINALS who shot police, killed other people etc got plastic surgery and didn't pay a dime for it. AND NOW they can get free transgender medical care and surgery on guess who's money? THE OLD WHITE PRIVILEGED people.

Next time you go to the grocery store, you watch what people buy. You watch how they pay and if that screen says EBT do NOT think it's a damned credit card they are using. They are paying with TAXPAYER money. And yeah they live in Irvine not just Santa Ana.

gee. I wonder who you voted for.

Your post makes it sound like only old white people are the ones paying the taxes, and only people of color and immigrants are "takers" of government benefits. But of course, you didn't actually mean to imply that, did you? Not when social security and medicare are two of the biggest government entitlement programs in this country? Who uses those? 76% of medicare recipients in this country are white. 

Who are "taxpayers"? White people only? I'm a young person of color, and I paid close to 40% of my income in taxes last year, total effective rate, not marginal rate. By the time I'm done with my working years, I will have paid far in excess into the social security system than I can ever expect to get out, if social security as a system is even still intact by the time I reach retirement age.  You sold your old house in Northwood Pointe at a huge profit, to who? A person of color.  What nurse could reasonably expect to live in a neighborhood of 2 million dollar houses if they tried to buy into the same neighborhood in the current day and age? You profited because your age/generation cohort positioned you in a way to be able to ride the real estate boom in a way that I doubt younger generations will ever be able to.

You, as a property-owning white member of the baby boomer generation, have benefited due to immigration into this state--immigrants driving up real estate prices, immigrants driving down the cost of labor for construction, domestic work, restaurant work, even driving down the prices of food due to artificially low agricultural labor costs. So yes, I would say there is privilege. You may not feel like it because you and your family worked hard, and you may feel like you earned your comforts based on your hard work, but that does not mean there is not systemic privilege built into the entire economic/political system of the U.S., and that does not mean that other people have not worked equally hard but may not have profited in the same manner due to accidents of age, birth or color. It takes both luck and hard work to achieve success in life.

And by the way, I have seen plenty of white patients on MediCal. Your brother's story is a sad one, but I highly doubt the reason he did not qualify for MediCal was solely because of his race, rather than other specific factors that we are not privy to.

Man, another doctor trying to put a nurse in her place!

 

[tim]

If you are white and think you do not have white privilege, then you do not understand what the term "white privilege" means. Imagine having to go through all you have gone through. Now imagine doing all that AND being black. If you think your life would then be easier, then you are not clued in to all the things that black people have to deal with. Some of it is due to outright racist people, but probably not most. Most of it is due to inherent, unconscious bias in people. There is also bias in various systems in the country. It isn't hard to see if you are really looking. The fact that many white people don't see it is because they don't have to. They don't suffer from it. Not suffering from it when others do gives you an advantage. You aren't trying to have that advantage. (Well, some people do, but most don't.) But you still have it. And it isn't just race. I think men also have many advantages.

Just look at who has been President of the USA. If you are a child imagining a future for yourself, is it easier to imagine you could be President if you are a white man or if you are a black woman? White men have 40-something examples. Black women have 0. Women haven't even had 100 years of being able to vote. Blacks struggled to actually get to vote in many states until after civil rights laws passed just 50 years ago. Imagine if your parents had suffered from that prejudice while your white friends' parents did not. Doesn't it seem like that would have an effect on you?

When I talk about white privilege, it is not to make white people feel guilty. It is to acknowledge the benefits that white people have without even trying. It is to acknowledge that it is harder in this country to be brown-skinned. Maybe think of it as a phrase of empathy.