Portola Springs

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
I heard from several of my friends at work who are from the midwest that, at where they lived you have to pay a seperate fire department fund every year. If you somehow decided not to pay or forgot, the fire engines won't come to put out of fire at or near your house.
 
That would be so wrong. . .I am not sure that is an option around here. The Fire department cannot allow one house to go up in flames because of the dangers that it poses to the others. I am guessing that the houses are a little more spread apart in the Midwest.
 
<p>Just wait until the insurance companies see these maps when assigning risk to new PS homes.</p>

<p>It will take a while to work through the system, but there will be a hit.</p>

<p>SCHB</p>
 
<em>I heard from several of my friends at work who are from the midwest that, at where they lived you have to pay a seperate fire department fund every year. If you somehow decided not to pay or forgot, the fire engines won't come to put out of fire at or near your house.





</em>in many communities where the fire dept is privatized, residents make periodic payments for fire protection service, similar to how waste mgmt or utilities work. or you are simply billed when a need for service arises. i can't imagine that the fire dept would NOT come at all. they could simply bill you after the fact, like emergency medical care.





i heard an interview on kfi yesterday with a retired la county fire battalion commander. he notes that while there have been a lot of gripes about allocation of resources between the state and particular counties, residents of LA county approved a supplemental tax (prop E, 1997) for fire protection. this prevented a lot of station closings and layoffs that were planned, as well as allowed them to buy new equipment -- one example being converting blackhawk choppers. san diego county for example has NO county fire dept of their own which is ridiculous considering their track record with wildfires.





how many of you would be receptive to an increase in property taxes for fire protection now? its the age-old debate of whether residents who live in areas in less danger from wildfires would be willing to subsidize those living in more dangerous areas.
 
<p><I>how many of you would be receptive to an increase in property taxes for fire protection now? </I></p>

<p>Not until the fire authority fixes their retirement benefit and work schedule to align costs.</p>
 
Whenever taxes are involved you really have no choice, whatever the majority wants, you have to go with. I almost bought a home in irvine in the last two months, I would have been paying about 8K in just property taxes (excluding mello-roos). I have no kids and by the time they are of school age, I would have moved down to san diego. So part of those property taxes that i would be paying go to pay for the "great" irvine schools that I would not get any benefit out of. So I would be subsidizing all of your kids public school educations. In this case, i assume the majority would vote not to increase taxes for additional fire protection since i presume the majority of the irvine population is not at risk. But whatever the majority wanted I would have to go with.
 
how about let's take all of the fire department budget in OC off the overall budget - straight reduction, no moving money around, then privitized the fire department? The privitized fire department then turn around bill everyone based on preceived risks?
 
<p><em>>>how many of you would be receptive to an increase in property taxes for fire protection now?</em></p>

<p>Ixnay the property tax. Firefighting benefits all. I would go for a 1/4% sales tax increase similar to OCTA's Measure M.</p>
 
I would say the property tax is more fair than a sales tax. The sales tax impacts all non-owners including those who are of low income. The property tax would hit the property owners who are the ones that benefit the most from firefighters.
 
<p><em>>>I would have been paying about 8K in just property taxes (excluding mello-roos). I have no kids and by the time they are of school age, I would have moved down to san diego. So part of those property taxes that i would be paying go to pay for the "great" irvine schools that I would not get any benefit out of.</em> </p>

<p>1. Property taxes go for more than paying for schools. <a href="http://www.caltax.org/member/digest/July2000/jul00-7.htm">See here for more</a>.</p>

<p>2. While you no direct benefit from paying for public schools, you get an indirect benefit by having a more educated populace which (in theory) creates a better economy.</p>
 
Qwerty - Renters and businesses don't benefit from fire fighting? The OCFA shows up if you have a heart attack or other medical emergency. In a fire, fire fighters save life first, and then perform structure protection. In an apartment building fire, the renters or lessees sure do benefit from firefighting, as it would help preserve their lives and personal property.
 
<p><em>>>how about let's take all of the fire department budget in OC off the overall budget - straight reduction, no moving money around, then privitized the fire department? The privitized fire department then turn around bill everyone based on preceived risks?</em> </p>

<p>Not a fan. I don't want a bean counter deciding that oil has gone up too high causing no fire fighters to show up because it wouldn't be profitable.</p>
 
<p>Property tax-collection has gone up a few billion dollars in the last few years due to the housing boom. The extra money coming into the OC's coffer has been staggering. It would be interesting to know where did the extra revenue go. GRAPHIX, do you have any data on this (you seem to know everything relating to real data) ? My guess is that most of it went into admistrative cost such as spiking the public employee pension, not extra service. </p>

<p>So I agree with No_Such_Reality, NO TO EXTRA TAX! </p>

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Eval - I agree that renters benefit from the services (such as medical emergencies), but in the case of fires, such as the ones taking place now, the most valuable items (other than human life of course) are the properties themselves, and therefore the property owners should bear the cost of additional firefighting resources. Also, correct me if i am wrong, but dont you have to pay for emergency medical services (either out of pocket or insurance) when there is a medical emergency? Property owners dont get a bill for firefighting services. I was just trying to make a point that it is more fair to increase property taxes rather than sales taxes to increase firefighting services.
 
Q - FWIW, when I was involved in a head on car collision, I was billed for the ambulance ride but not the fire department and paramedics who were at the scene.
 
<p>qwerty. . . it depends on the city. I know from personal experience that Anaheim FD charges people a "insurance" fee to cover for emergency. However, Anaheim residents are exempt from the fee. If you (like me) did not have pay the fee, Anaheim FD charges you $300 for the service. The charge is somewhat covered by insurance (60% for me). </p>

<p>Such a system really bugs me though. . . I should get emergency treatment for free. . . especially as a Californian in California (heck I even went to the University of California). I pay taxes to everyone and thus I expect governmental services when I need it. I understand court fees and permit fees because they are specialized services but emergency response. . .heck no.</p>
 
<p>{Sigh} </p>

<p>All y'all are going to make me do a post on the misinformation regarding public employee retirement benefits, aren't you? I decided to let IR's comment last week(?) go, but I see it continuing.</p>
 
IC - I suspect that that is a consequence of Anaheim having its own fire department and a city council decision to offset the costs of that by charging nonresidents a fee for service. Not that that makes you feel any better...
 
<p>Eva, that does make somewhat sense but it did not make me feel better.</p>

<p>Anaheim must get some money from the state and county for its fire department. Since I do not live in Anaheim, I am less likely to be involved in an accident in the city. Whatever risk I may pose to the City of Anaheim is compensated by me paying of state and county taxes and the benefit Anaheim derives from those taxes.</p>

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