Pat Veling is paranoid, or he has OD'd on the Kool-Aid

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[quote author="Pat Veling" date=1213085676]These are all pretty funny. I'd rather be the rooster than the guy with 'hawk.</blockquote>


Still no confirmation to not out Graph.



At least your a man of your word. You can't break it if you don't give it.
 
Here is my latest comment on Lansner's blog to Pat. IHBers... what say ye?



Pat,



Reread your last post that you wrote me. You sound like a pompous and arrogant man. You especially sound pompous and arrogant when I am willing to meet your five (5), I repeat <strong>FIVE (5)</strong> terms, when all I ask is for one (1), I repeat <strong>ONE (1)</strong> term.



Now, please get off your high horse and show some respect in promising to keep my identity confidential, when I am willing to meet your term and let you know my identity. It doesn't matter why I want to, and I didn't ask you why for any of your <strong>FIVE (5)</strong> terms. If you want people to treat you with respect around here, then you should show the same respect in return.



If you cannot meet my <strong>ONE (1)</strong> term, then either you ...



1. Clearly have an ulterior motive.



2. Or, you are going to use this as your excuse to back out.



I am not backing out. I am willing to meet your <strong>FIVE (5)</strong> terms, if you cannot meet my <strong>ONE (1)</strong> and only term, it is <em>you</em> that is backing out, not me. I have put my money where my mouth is, so to speak, in meeting your terms, and you are no better than me, so meeting my one term is more than being on a level playing field. You can harm and flip me all you want, but if you can't meet one term, everyone will clearly see that it is you backing out, not me.



I would also like to continue this conversation on IHB, not to have you exposed to those there, but because the OCR's abomination of word press is highly annoying and too time consuming.
 
I found a brilliant gem from Pat, who says he doesn't make predictions, about the Palm Springs area back in 2005 from the desert sun...

<em>

<strong>Optimistic outlook</strong>

Veling estimated that the valley housing market should see appreciation of 10 percent to 15 percent in the coming year. That's down from the 30 percent and higher figures seen in 2004 and early 2005, but still higher than returns seen with most other equity vehicles such as stocks, he said.



California Association of Realtors economist Leslie Appleton-Young recently projected valley appreciation between 10 percent and 18 percent.



Other economists have shied away from such rosy forecasts. Chapman University economist Esmael Adibi projects valley housing appreciation around 5 percent, based on overall growth expectations for the inland county region. UCLA economist Michael Bazdarich recently contended that even Adibi's estimate could prove overly optimistic.



Veling told his audience that despite his own bullish forecast, real estate agents need to be sure their selling clients have realistic expectations of what their homes will fetch. Currently, sellers are having to lower their asking prices as unsold resale inventory has risen to more than twice year-ago levels.



That has occurred even as sales prices overall have not dropped significantly, and on average are still appreciating at around 20 percent from a year ago in most valley communities - led by gains in new-construction homes.



Veling said the valley has a number of bubble-proofing factors in its favor, including continued demand for local homes among retirees, the fact that most owners sell their homes because they want to - not because they have to - and an overall supply of homes that continues to lag demand.



Generally, Veling said the local housing market is not in danger of bursting a bubble as long as there is no natural disaster that affects the area, no drastic drop in job creation and no major jump in mortgage rates, among other factors.



<strong>What exactly is a bubble?</strong>

An economic bubble occurs when speculation in a commodity - such as homes - causes the price to increase, which produces more speculation. The price of the good then reaches absurd levels and the bubble is usually followed by a sudden drop in prices, known as a crash.



The crash that follows an economic bubble can destroy a large amount of wealth and cause continuing economic malaise. While a few economists warn of a national housing bubble, most say local housing and job markets vary so much that a countrywide downturn is unlikely.



<strong>Bubble trouble here?</strong>

Regional experts say the Coachella Valley is not in immediate danger of seeing a sharp downturn in the local residential real estate scene ? known in economic circles as a housing bubble ? mainly because local population growth remains relatively high compared to other areas. In turn, that is driving the demand for valley land and houses. Aging baby boomers who are selling homes in other parts of California and the country and investing their equity in the desert are contributing to the vibrant housing scene, experts say.



According to Pat Veling, an analyst with Brea-based research firm Real Data Strategies, these things would have to happen before the valley reached bubble-popping territory:



# Rapidly falling demand</em> Check, demand plummeted out there faster the subprime shops could be shut down.



<em><strong># Job losses</strong></em> Yup, the IE leads SoCal in job losses, including the sacred professional business services sector.



<em><strong># Unaffordable high mortgage interest rates</strong></em> Sorta a check, the mortgage market is dead, but rates remain low.



<em><strong># Large numbers of motivated sellers</strong></em> Check, I would consider banks as motivated sellers.



<em><strong># Leveraged builders with too much product</strong></em> Check, there was so much product out there, the land has a negative value.



<em><strong># Psychological factors, including buyer fears and a rise in sellers who think the market has peaked</strong></em> Sorta a check, more like people got that this run up was not economically sustainable. Now, the market there continues to crash.



<em>For now, the valley has these factors warding off a bubble-bursting:



<strong># Rising demand amid population growth</strong></em> Uh... population wasn't growing all that much, and many of the estimates were overestimated.



<em><strong># Demand for homes among retirees</strong></em> Uh huh... all those boomers retiring, which do not create jobs.



<em><strong># Buyers selling homes in more expensive areas and investing proceeds here</strong></em> Too bad they can't sell their homes in the "more expensive" areas.



<em><strong># Owners selling because they want to, not because they have to</strong></em> Banks have to sell, and owners who can't afford their payments have to sell, or give back to the bank, who have to sell even more than the seller before.



<em>Source: Real Data Strategies, Inc </em>
 
Damn I love google. <a href="http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_1114527.php">Here is another gem from Pat, not making any predictions</a>...



<em>Pat Veling, an industry analyst and president of Real Data Strategies of Brea, believes that listings are going to continue increasing - from a 4.2-month supply of houses to a six-month supply (meaning that homes would take six months to sell at today's sales pace). But the market isn't imploding, he insisted.



"I think we're still going to see prices climb," Veling said.



Real estate economist Gary Watts adds that he's standing by his 2006 forecast that home prices will go up 15 percent this year, but said he will revise that estimate if listings still are going up this summer. </em>



Oops, like two peas in a pod, a pod of complete and utter totally wrong on their forecasts.
 
[quote author="Trooper" date=1213110293]Graph, you earn a Google-Fu Medal of Honor with those finds.....this guy is a hack !</blockquote>


No, no, wait... I found another one. Gawd bless to being an OCR subscriber, you can search the archives, and looky what I found from Mr. NoPredictions...



<em>Pat Veling, an industry analyst and president of Real Data Strategies Inc. of Brea, forecast that home prices will continue rising in the 8 percent to 11 percent range this year.



?We seem to be in a similar position to that which we saw last year at this time,? Veling said. ?(There are) more sellers than buyers at the moment, (but) sellers ? will eventually take their homes off the market instead of reduce their prices.?



Veling said that, at today?s sales pace, it would take about four months to sell off all the homes on the market, compared with 19 months during the recession of the early 1990s. </em>



That is from a March 2006 article by Jeff Collins. Good stuff I tell you, good stuff.
 
IHB Friends and Foes:



Let's separate data from opinion. I sell good data and analysis.



By nature of my position in the industry, I am periodcially asked to give my opinion in forums and the press. (Does anybody else here get asked their opinions?) The forums referenced here were "panel" discussions and presentations, many of which I have participated in, and in which I have shared opinions, using information gathered from a variety of sources. This includes data and thoughts from a variety of periodicals and economist / observer friends and colleagues. Some of my people sources include John Husing, Leslie Appleton-Young, and GU Krueger. Some of my data resources include the Real Estate Research Council, DataQuick, First American, and a bunch of MLSs.



Did I underestimate the market correction? Yes. Is the current market condition being overblown by many here? Yes. Does my data support my second point? Yes, assuming one gives credibility to such metrics as median and absorption rates. (But that's not what I expect here.)



I always appreciate civil discourse! Have a great day!
 
Deals in bad faith.



Can't get his facts straight.



Makes representations that turn out to be boldface lies.



Has zero credibility, and can't be trusted.



Anybody see a trend here? Rush Limbaugh will often say (when he gets ready to dumb down a topic, and believe it or not, it happens all the time!) "For those of you in Rio Linda":



<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jargon_of_The_Rush_Limbaugh_Show">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jargon_of_The_Rush_Limbaugh_Show</a>



........well, I used to live in Rio Linda, Rush is right (about Rio Linda anyway) and even I get this.



Pat Veling a weasely piece of shit who can't be trusted. Not his 'redacted' data. And not his word.
 
[quote author="Pat Veling" date=1213136322]No_Vaseline:



So much for the civil discourse. Have a great day!</blockquote>


You have three options as I see it:



1. Accept the one term that Graph asked for and I'll apologize.



2. Or deny it outright and I'll let it drop.



3. Or continue to make snippy posts that evade direct and simple questions like what you do, how your service benifits customers, how the data is actionable, why you have publicly published interviews that contradict what you've recently written, or why Graphs ONE request is unreasonable. In this case, expect me to keep up the full court press to fully vet what a walking waste of human skin you are.



It's not that hard to be a man about it and <em>pick one</em>.
 
[quote author="Pat Veling" date=1213135794](Does anybody else here get asked their opinions?)</blockquote>


More often that you can imagine. And sometimes on the same subject over and over again.



I realize that I'm walking into this halfway through the punchline, but what's the big deal over a non-disclosure? Graph has met with members of the local media before and although ethics-bound, they don't seem to have a problem not revealing his identity.
 
No_Vaseline:



Calling me a "weasely piece of shit who can?t be trusted" and "a walking waste of human skin" is not the best way to get me to jump through hoops.



But, regarding your three options above....



1) Ain't gonna happen. See Lansner's blog this morning as to why Graphrix has set this up so that I am unable to accept his one term.

2) Deny what -- specifically -- outright? Sorry, but I do not follow.

3) Much of what you ask regarding my firm's offering was posted on Lanser's blog late yesterday, in response to Bill's question.



You accused me of saying you have anger management issues. I think your recent posts above sort of speak for themselves. (Any rational person would agree. Have you re-read your posts?)
 
<i>"Is the current market condition being overblown by many here? Yes."</i>


No. And you are just as wrong now as you have consistently been wrong in the past.




<i>"Does my data support my second point? Yes, assuming one gives credibility to such metrics as median and absorption rates. (But that?s not what I expect here.) "</i>


No, the data does not support your second point. You are not including most relevant data. I give credibility to data, but you do not have credibility in interpreting the data, as you have proven with your <strong>WRONG</strong> opinion based on your interpretation of the data.
 
Awgee:



Understanding that my data universe is MLS data, what -- specifically -- is the "most relevant data" I am not including. I am willing to listen to your opinion of my analysis methods. Thanks in advance.
 
MLS data? That's it? How about all the fundamentals affecting the real estate market? If you want to know what the fundamentals are, please refer to the "What's going into escrow in Irvine" thread. And people pay you for conclusions based exclusively of MLS data? And you think there is some kind of relevant conclusion that can be drawn based solely on MLS data?


It's true: you can fool a heck of alot of the people a heck of alot of the time.
 
[quote author="Pat Veling" date=1213138312]Awgee:



Understanding that my data universe is MLS data, what -- specifically -- is the "most relevant data" I am not including. I am willing to listen to your opinion of my analysis methods. Thanks in advance.</blockquote>


Besides, what the heck difference does it make what you think your analysis methods are when your conclusions are <strong>WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!</strong>


"Hey, try to find fault with my analysis. Forget the results. It doesn't matter that my results are crap. I did good analysis."
 
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