Palin

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I knew she was a floozy. Well, at least her daughter is. Like mother, like daughter right?



Does this go to judgement or temperment or qualification? No, this goes to show what happens when to nominante a 18month Governer who's previous qualifications were Mayor of a town of 6000 and being first runner up in the Miss Alaska pagent. You get all that small town chaff that comes along with it. There ain't much to do in a town of 6000 except drink, meth, or have sex.



This is why you shouldn't have two working parents when you still have school age children. For those of you who had meddlesome, stay at home parent at home when you were growing up you'll understand. And for those of you who grew up in a small isolated town where sex, drugs, and rock and roll were the only afterschool activities you'll really get it.
 
[quote author="HB Bear, Too" date=1220312785][quote author="irvine123" date=1220101201]What is the different between abort a child with down syndrome and abort a child with the sex you don't prefer?</blockquote>


Well, if you want to get technical, Down's syndrome is caused by a defect in the 21st chromosome, while gender is determined by the 23rd chromosome.</blockquote>


So the answer is "2"?
 
McCain reportedly says that the campaign knew about this in advance. I'm curious why they still chose her. It seems to me that they are headed towards making their Anti-Choice platform a major campaign issue.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1220314464]McCain reportedly says that the campaign knew about this in advance. I'm curious why they still chose her. It seems to me that they are headed towards making their Anti-Choice platform a major campaign issue.</blockquote>
I really don't think they would say they didn't know about it whether they did or not.
 
CalGal, you are probably right, but what does that say about his vetting process? I hear several VP hopefuls say that they were eliminated based on very small issues or even facial features. If they didn't know, how are they feeling about this now. I don't think this would be as much of an issue if she were the Democrat's candidate, but boy, would they Republican's have a field day if the shoe were on the other foot.
 
Anyone who lost their virginity before the age of 18 has to recuse themselves from throwing stones at Palin's daughter. Calling Sarah a floozy based on her daughter's sex life must mean that criticizing Obama for his associations with Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers must also be valid, right?



So far the attacks on her have been based on pregnancy and inexperience. The Republicans didn't start making her pregnancy an issue, her detractors did. Kind of hard to make an argument that McCain picked her to stir up the abortion debate when all the inflammatory comments have been coming from the left, while the campaign has issued one statement to rebut internet rumors that were also being promulgated by the left. You have to be pretty paranoid to think this was a set-up. McCain made his pro-life position pretty clear over his career and reiterated that at the Saddleback Forum. If anyone needs to be blamed, look at the lunatic fringe who hyped up the rumors in an attempt to discredit Sarah Palin.
 
[quote author="BMP 309" date=1220105447][quote author="Trooper" date=1220103710]Since we're on the subject, would you support her right to marry a same sex partner?</blockquote>


The government really should not be involved...I have many republican friends that have disagreed, but truthfully-it is <strong>not</strong> the Republican way to tell people who they can or can not marry. Way more Fascist than Rep... The answer is yes--support.</blockquote>


How refreshing to hear from a moderate Republican. My hat off to you.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1220314305][quote author="HB Bear, Too" date=1220312785][quote author="irvine123" date=1220101201]What is the different between abort a child with down syndrome and abort a child with the sex you don't prefer?</blockquote>


Well, if you want to get technical, Down's syndrome is caused by a defect in the 21st chromosome, while gender is determined by the 23rd chromosome.</blockquote>


So the answer is "2"?</blockquote>


Yeah, I guess it is. :-)
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1220325037]Anyone who lost their virginity before the age of 18 has to recuse themselves from throwing stones at Palin's daughter. Calling Sarah a floozy based on her daughter's sex life must mean that criticizing Obama for his associations with Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers must also be valid, right?



So far the attacks on her have been based on pregnancy and inexperience. The Republicans didn't start making her pregnancy an issue, her detractors did. Kind of hard to make an argument that McCain picked her to stir up the abortion debate when all the inflammatory comments have been coming from the left, while the campaign has issued one statement to rebut internet rumors that were also being promulgated by the left. You have to be pretty paranoid to think this was a set-up. McCain made his pro-life position pretty clear over his career and reiterated that at the Saddleback Forum. If anyone needs to be blamed, look at the lunatic fringe who hyped up the rumors in an attempt to discredit Sarah Palin.</blockquote>


<em>"The Republicans didn?t start making her pregnancy an issue, her detractors did."</em>



If the "her" you are referring to is the Governor, then I will reiterate: The first place her most recent pregnancy was mentioned here was by Winex as a testament to her values. He put it in issue here.



BTW, I don't really follow how rumors of Trig's mother not being the Governor <em>necessarily required</em> disclosure of Bristol's current pregnancy. It would seem to me that as November came closer it would be obvious. So maybe they used the rumors to (1) get out in front of it now, and (2) use the rumors to garner sympathy and/or provide a basis for outrage.



As far as I'm concerned, Sarah Palin sought the spotlight, Bristol did not. Analysis of the Governor is fair game, but her daughter deserves her privacy.



I still wonder though, had Chelsea Clinton or a daughter of Obama become pregnant as a teenager, would the "hands off" rule apply? At least <a href="http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2008/09/just_askin_indeed.html">one person</a> thinks not.
 
<a href="http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/the_palin_meltdown_in_slomo.php">Sarah Palin and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day:</a>



<blockquote>On the same day that the Republicans were forced to dramatically cut back their convention activities, the Palin Meltdown unfolded with extraordinary speed. It's worth pondering the totality of what happened today, in a mere half day...



* The news that Palin once backed the Bridge to Nowhere went national.



* It emerged that Palin has links to the bizarro Alaska Independence Party, which harbors the goal of seceding from the union that McCain and Palin seek to lead.



* The news broke that as governor, Palin relied on an earmark system she now opposes. Taken along with the Bridge to Nowhere stuff, this threatens to undercut her reformist image, something that was key to her selection as McCain's Veep candidate.



* The news broke that Palin's 17-year-old daughter became pregnant out of wedlock at a time when the conservative base had finally started rallying behind McCain's candidacy.



* Barely moments after McCain advisers put out word that McCain had known of Bristol Palin's pregnancy, the Anchorage Daily News revealed that Palin's own spokesperson hadn't known about it only two days ago.



* A senior McCain adviser at the Republican convention was forced into the rather embarrassing position of arguing that McCain had known about the pregnancy "last week" -- without saying what day last week he knew about it.



* It came out that Republican lawyers are up in Alaska vetting Palin -- now, more than 72 hours after it was announced that she'd been picked.



* Palin lawyered up in relation to the trooper-gate probe in Alaska -- a move that ensures far more serious attention to the story from the major news orgs.</blockquote>
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1220325037]Anyone who lost their <em>virginity before the age of 18 </em>has to recuse themselves from throwing stones at Palin's daughter. Calling Sarah a floozy based on her daughter's sex life must mean that criticizing Obama for his associations with Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers must also be valid, right? </blockquote>


Not that it's any of your business, but OK. I don't have to recuse shit.



She's a floozy. She certainly has poor judgement. She obviously wasn't well parented.



Eat some of this.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1220352911]<a href="http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/the_palin_meltdown_in_slomo.php">Sarah Palin and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day:</a>



<blockquote>On the same day that the Republicans were forced to dramatically cut back their convention activities, the Palin Meltdown unfolded with extraordinary speed. It's worth pondering the totality of what happened today, in a mere half day...



* The news that Palin once backed the Bridge to Nowhere went national.



* It emerged that Palin has links to the bizarro Alaska Independence Party, which harbors the goal of seceding from the union that McCain and Palin seek to lead.



* The news broke that as governor, Palin relied on an earmark system she now opposes. Taken along with the Bridge to Nowhere stuff, this threatens to undercut her reformist image, something that was key to her selection as McCain's Veep candidate.



* The news broke that Palin's 17-year-old daughter became pregnant out of wedlock at a time when the conservative base had finally started rallying behind McCain's candidacy.



* Barely moments after McCain advisers put out word that McCain had known of Bristol Palin's pregnancy, the Anchorage Daily News revealed that Palin's own spokesperson hadn't known about it only two days ago.



* A senior McCain adviser at the Republican convention was forced into the rather embarrassing position of arguing that McCain had known about the pregnancy "last week" -- without saying what day last week he knew about it.



* It came out that Republican lawyers are up in Alaska vetting Palin -- now, more than 72 hours after it was announced that she'd been picked.



* Palin lawyered up in relation to the trooper-gate probe in Alaska -- a move that ensures far more serious attention to the story from the major news orgs.</blockquote></blockquote>


I actually have not said anything about Palin yet, and I wanted to see what she was all about before I formed a decision on whether I liked her or not. I can see how the left has been blowing a lot of what she is about out of proportion. But, and this is a big fat a$$ed but, she supported the bridge to no where? Really? That right there just kills me. I don't care about any other contradictory points she has against her after reading that. Even the rightest of right republicans should be in uproar over supporting the grossest pork belly spending project ever known in the US. This is the worst thing I have heard about her yet. I am disgusted that anyone with just 2 brain cells who would have supported this.
 
[quote author="cdm" date=1220281063]Cayci:



Four months is getting really close to the limit of viability outside the womb (although with a very high mortality rate), and science and medicine bring that down all of the time.



Graph:



I don't think that she was selected to stir up the abortion debate, or bring that to the fore. Abortion is a key issue to the base, but as long as they know the candidate is committed, they are willing to let that slide to the background a little.



I think she was selected to bring reform to the fore. There have been many focus groups done on the remaining undecideds, and the largest block in swing states is:



Women

White

Not traditional "pants suit" feminists (ie abortion is not the most important issue)

35-50 years old

Independent (don't vote party line, as opposed to registered independent).



Their chief economic anxiety is that they believe that special interests get all the special favors, and that offends them, especially when times are tough.



So if you need to reach out to these voters, who do you want? Sarah Palin.



I also think that they do want to capitalize on the experience issue. Whether you believe that Palin or Obama has more experience, the fact that the discussion is happening at all is bad for Obama.



One other thing to keep an eye on: The end of the convention means that McCain goes to public funds, which means Obama's broken pledge on campaign finance comes into play again. And remember the comment about bitter people clinging to guns and religion? It took place at a fundraiser. Expect McCain to point out the fact that Obama will sell blue collar folks down the river in order to impress his new millionaire friends. And who better to make the point than a blue collar woman who has guns and religion? And who will be Obama's largest contributers? Special interests - say hello the the Trial Lawyers!! Say hello to the corrupt unions that steal from their members (hello SEIU)!!</blockquote>


cdm,



A simple click of the thank you button will not do you justice for this post. So... I want to thank you, for all to see, for making your well thought out and name calling free post. I apologize for being too tired to discuss your points tonight, it has been a long weekend, but I will say I agree with you more than I disagree with you. It is posters like you, Irvine123, Nude, Trooper, EvaL, etc. that I have the utmost respect for due to their ability to make their points, without name calling, even if I disagree with them or not. It is posters like you and them who make the forums a great place for discussion on the topics at hand.



Thank you for helping make this forum be the great place it is.
 
forgive my ignorance, but what's the Bridge to Nowhere Program that Palin supposedly supports?



and here is my 2 cents on her VP candidacy: if McCain is elected and then dies of a heart attack or old age (likely), she becomes president, right? So let me get this: Miss Alaska runner-up, local TV anchor, small town mayor, governor of some state nobody cares about, President of the U.S.??? What was McCain thinking when picking her?

I just don't see her having any relevant qualifications, because running Alaska and running U.S. is like driving a tricycle and driving a big-wheeler. And since when having 5 children qualifies anybody to rule the entire country? That's her only accomplishment thus far anyway... I reckon his rationale for picking her was that she, as a woman, would attract Hillary's voters, but people voted for Hillary not just because she is a woman, but also based on her platform, like pro-choice.

my verdict is that now McCain's candidacy is officially doomed. I was hoping he would offer VP to Hillary, would be a nice move, don't you think? :)
 
<a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-31-palin-bridge_N.htm?csp=34">http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-31-palin-bridge_N.htm?csp=34</a>



Link to Palin being for the bridge before she was against it. She's had more flip flops in a week than some politicans get their whole career. And they aren't small ones. Her career is short - so far.



I'll leave the comments about her daughter alone, but it's just one more log on the fire that McCain got himself into by nominating somebody who wasn't vetted and isn't qualified. Personally I don't think they are out of bounds. Neither is her husbands DUI 20 years ago. The holier than thou attitude from the GOP over the past 25 or 30 years is tiring. Everyone has family problems.
 
Entertaining...



?Ludicrous? to Say Palin Has Less Experience Than Obama, McCain Says

Monday, September 01, 2008

By Susan Jones, Senior Editor



(CNSNews.com) - Is Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin the best choice to be a heartbeat away from the presidency? Many Americans are asking that question, and Sen. John McCain answered it with a resounding ?yes? on Sunday.



?The facts are funny things,? McCain said in an interview with NBC?s Brian Williams.



?She?s been in elected office longer than Sen. Obama. She?s been the chief executive of the state that provides 20 percent of America?s energy; she has balanced budgets; she has had executive experience as governor, as mayor, as a city council member and PTA.



?So she was in elected office when Sen. Obama was still a local community organizer. He?s never had one day of executive experience.?



Palin served two terms on the Wasilla (Alaska) City Council, from 1992-1996. She was elected mayor of Wasilla in 1996 and served two terms there as well, until 2002, when she ran for lieutenant governor and lost.



She chaired the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission for one year, until 2004, and was elected governor of Alaska in 2006.



?I think it?s almost ludicrous to compare her experience in elected office and as a leader of one of the most important states in America -- certainly one of the largest -- to compare her experience with his. It?s no contest,? McCain said.



McCain said Palin is the best person to be his running mate ?in every way.?



?She has experience, she?s been an executive, she knows how to balance budgets, she knows how towns and cities work.?



McCain also said Palin has set an inspiring example of ?home, family and service and putting her country first.?



Obama?s experience



Barack Obama?s campaign Web site, in a ?meet the candidate? section, mentions that Obama graduated from Columbia University in 1983, moved to Chicago in 1985, and ?became a community organizer with a church-based group seeking to improve living conditions in poor neighborhoods plagued with crime and high unemployment.?



(Elsewhere on the page, he says he ?worked for Christian churches in Chicago, helping communities devastated when steel plants closed.?)



Obama earned his law degree from Harvard in 1991, then-- after turning down ?lucrative jobs? in law firms, he returned to Chicago to practice civil rights law and teach constitutional law. During this time, he mentions that he led a ?successful voter registration drive.?



Obama says his advocacy work finally led him to run for the Illinois State Senate, where he served for eight years. In 2004, he became the third African American since Reconstruction to be elected to the U.S. Senate.?



?His first law [as a U.S. Senator] was passed with Republican Tom Coburn, a measure to rebuild trust in government by allowing every American to go online and see how and where every dime of their tax dollars is spent,? the Web site says. The Senate passed that law two years ago -- in September 2006.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1220352598]<em>"The Republicans didn?t start making her pregnancy an issue, her detractors did."</em>



If the "her" you are referring to is the Governor, then I will reiterate: The first place her most recent pregnancy was mentioned here was by Winex as a testament to her values. He put it in issue here.



BTW, I don't really follow how rumors of Trig's mother not being the Governor <em>necessarily required</em> disclosure of Bristol's current pregnancy. It would seem to me that as November came closer it would be obvious. So maybe they used the rumors to (1) get out in front of it now, and (2) use the rumors to garner sympathy and/or provide a basis for outrage.



As far as I'm concerned, Sarah Palin sought the spotlight, Bristol did not. Analysis of the Governor is fair game, but her daughter deserves her privacy.



I still wonder though, had Chelsea Clinton or a daughter of Obama become pregnant as a teenager, would the "hands off" rule apply? At least <a href="http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2008/09/just_askin_indeed.html">one person</a> thinks not.</blockquote>
"Here", yes. But I didn't say "Republicans on IHB" or "detractors on IHB". The liberal blogs were filled with the rumors in both posts and the comments and it wasn't long before they were repeated here, too. My point was that the theory put forth by Cayci/Graph didn't fit the the facts. Had the rumors not become the main topic of blog posts, the rebuttal wouldn't have been needed.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1220359152]But, and this is a big fat a$$ed but, she supported the bridge to no where? Really? That right there just kills me. I don't care about any other contradictory points she has against her after reading that. Even the rightest of right republicans should be in uproar over supporting the grossest pork belly spending project ever known in the US. This is the worst thing I have heard about her yet. I am disgusted that anyone with just 2 brain cells who would have supported this.</blockquote>


this doesn't really bother me. even your boy ron paul does this. he was once asked about whether it was hypocritical that he puts earmarks in bills for his district. he sticks them in knowing they might get passed even though he personally votes <em>against</em> every spending bill. his response when questioned about this was very candid. he said he's against the spending and will vote against it when it's in his power to do so but as long as they're going to do it, he's going to take advantage of it for his constituency. thats exactly what sarah palin did. as long as congress is going to build you free bridge, sure why not. but once she had the power to stop it, she did so.



i hate the tax code. if i were president, i would love to change it. until then, i'm taking still taking every damn deduction, rebate, and loophole they give me. ;)
 
am i the only one that thinks all this "dirt" coming out about palin just makes her more sympathetic and bullet-proof?



pregnant teen, husband had a dui 25 yrs ago, broke some hunting and fishing licensing laws. she just gained sympathy from the other half of america that doesnt live in metropolitation cities, the same part of the republican base that mccain couldnt embrace on his own. even her one political scandal, my-bro-in-law-sucks-troopergate, has a personal ring to it that many would sympathize with. even the worst of her seems to reinforce what conservatives think are her pluses.
 
<a href="http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/510378.html">Here</a> is a Q&A;Sarah Palin did while running for Governor, long before any idea of being VP was possible.



Some highlights:

<blockquote>5. Would you continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges?



Yes. I would like to see Alaska's infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now - while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist.



6. If Roe v. Wade were overturned and states could once again prohibit abortion, in your view, to what extent should abortion be prohibited in Alaska?



Under this hypothetical scenario, it would not be up to the governor to unilaterally ban anything. It would be up to the people of Alaska to discuss and decide how we would like our society to reflect our values.



7. Do you support or oppose the use of public funds for abortion (e.g., paying for abortion, promoting abortion, subsidizing organizations that provide or refer for abortion)?



I oppose the use of public funds for elective abortions.



8. Would you introduce - or, if introduced by a legislator, would you support - a bill to adopt the death penalty in Alaska? If yes, which crimes should it apply to?



If the Legislature were to pass a bill that established a death penalty on adults who murder children, I would sign it.



9. The state's pension fund for employees and teachers is $6.9 billion in the red. How would you propose to address that? Should any of the burden of increased payments fall on local taxpayers, through their municipal governments and school districts?



The state now has the responsibility to provide direct payments into the Public Employees' Retirement System/Teachers' Retirement System funds in order to make up the contributions that were shortchanged by previous governors. Gov. Murkowski is on the right track by proposing $500 million of the budget surplus as a deposit for next year. Future budget surpluses should be applied in similar fashion as a way of alleviating the burden on municipalities and school districts.



10. What role does state government have, if any, in addressing global warming and climate change?



We need to analyze the potential economic costs, needs and opportunities associated with climate change. Let's be cautious in how we react - to make sure we don't overreact. The Alaska Climate Impact Assessment Commission is supposed to assess the situation and issue a report on March 1, 2007. This is a good start.



11. Do you support an increase in state-funded, faith-based initiatives?



We see an adequate level of funding for faith-based initiatives today.



13. This year saw the biggest wartime call-up of Alaska National Guard troops ever. Combined with deployments of active-duty forces, thousands of Alaskans are now serving in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere overseas. What's your view of the Iraq war, and do you support President Bush's "war on terror"?



I support President Bush's efforts to stop terrorism by taking the fight to the terrorists. In the Iraq war, I would like to see the president develop an exit strategy to get our troops home.



14. High oil prices led to an estimated $11 billion state budget this year, including a record $7.6 billion to operate state government. With continued high oil prices and the new oil-tax law, the state treasury could swell by billions more. What is your plan for spending this money if it materializes? Please be specific.



As governor, my fiscal policy begins with being fiscally conservative. During these times of budget surplus, it is irresponsible to promise new programs that can not be sustained over many years. Any budget surpluses will be managed as a part of a savings plan that prioritizes forward-funding education and paying down the unfunded liability of the PERS/TRS funds.



15. What would you do with the state's new jet?



I will figure out the best way to get rid of it.



16. Would you support amending the state constitution to allow private school vouchers?



My priorities are to support options for education as allowable within the current funding formula - including home schools, charter schools and vocational training. This doesn't require amending the constitution.



</blockquote>
While the entire Q&A;deals with more state-specific questions, I found her answers on larger issues to be informative considering that she wasn't in the national spotlight.
 
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