Other areas in OC i.e. Yorba Linda, Villa Park

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ocprince_IHB

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<p>It seems like everyone here is mostly interested in Irvine, but the more I explore the market of OC I realized that not only are we in a bubble market but Irvine is the biggest bubble of them all. Out of curiosity, I drove up to the community of vista del Verde in Yorba linda and saw that Toll Brothers are selling brand new 4-5,000 sq foot homes on 10,000sq foot lots with golf course views for 1.2-1.3 millions, without the associated mello roos and HOA. The same amount of money in Turtle ridge buys me 3000 sq foot home, with mello roos and hoa, all for the pleasure of being able to stare into my neighbors' bathrooms because they are built so close together. </p>

<p>From what I hear the schools of YL, and Villa Park are not too far behind Irvine? What everyone think of these other areas? or any other surrounding area in OC?</p>
 
<p>OC Prince...the website is <a href="http://www.IRVINEHOUSINGBLOG.com">www.<strong>IRVINEHOUSINGBLOG</strong>.com</a>, just a little bit of hint as to what kind of property we would concentrate on.... </p>

<p> </p>

<p>I'd look into the property tax. Alot of houses in Yorba are listed as Horse Property, so i'd also check into that. I like Yorba, but the houses are a little too big for a family of DINKS. Plus you have to deal with the horrid 91 freeway and the VERY expensive toll roads. But if you can afford 1.2M then a few hundred in commuting costs a month won't sting too much.</p>

<p>-bix</p>
 
I think the main problem of those houses in Yorba Linda is location - it's bordering on the inland "boonies." The main freeways around there are the 91, 57, and 55. If you have to take the 5 for your commute, it won't be a very pleasant experience getting there from one of those freeways.





The Whittier fault line runs through Yorba Linda - earthquakes and landslides are a problem - more so than Tustin and Irvine because of the "hilly" area. My mother used to work there - "hilly" is her word to describe it.





http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/abox/article_1215591.php





Villa Park High School is pretty decent (high 700s) - is just a bit lower in terms of API than the Irvine, Woodbridge High schools of Irvine (low to mid 800s). However, I don't think kids in Yorba Linda go to Villa Park.





Here's the wikipedia on Yorba Linda high schools:


There are no high schools located in Yorba Linda, but at least one public and one private high school are planned to be built by 2008. Most Yorba Linda residents attend <a title="Esperanza High School" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanza_High_School">Esperanza High School</a>, located in nearby <a title="Anaheim" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaheim">Anaheim</a>. Historically, many students have also attended <a title="Troy High School (California)" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_High_School_%28California%29">Troy High School</a> in nearby <a title="Fullerton" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullerton">Fullerton</a>, <a title="Valencia High School (Placentia)" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valencia_High_School_%28Placentia%29">Valencia High School</a> in neighboring <a title="Placentia, California" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placentia%2C_California">Placentia</a>, and <a title="El Dorado High School (Placentia, California)" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Dorado_High_School_%28Placentia%2C_California%29">El Dorado High School</a>, also located in Placentia.





From what I know, Esperanza is pretty good and Troy is excellent (one of the best public high schools in So Cal - due to the fact that it's a magnet).
 
<p>thanks biscuitninja, I did guess that this was an irvine housing blog; however, I was hoping to get some insights as to why Irvine is such a great place to live, aside from the schools. The money that I save from not having to pay mello-roos, hoa could easily pay for private school tuition. <u>Obviously, there has to be more to Irvine than just schools</u>. My work is in Garden Grove so commuting would be pretty much the same either way. I can afford a 1.2 home with conventional loans but I do believe in this bubble, so I will wait for the right time (as long as the wife doesn't complain too much) . thanks muffdaddy for your response. I didn't mean to say that Villa park students go to Yorba Linda school district or vice Versa. I just mentioned these two places b/c I feel less claustrophobic when driving through them. I am from the suburbs of Philadelphia and I am used to houses on at least 1 acre lots, large front back yards, driveways.</p>

<p>I'm in the market for a house and all my friends who are from this area automatically mentioned Irvine as the place to live, especially since I have a young child. However, I'm torn by the fact that the houses in Irvine have such small lots. I want to be educated on why people from OC and who knows OC thinks Irvine is the "it" place. Everyone mentions the schools, but is there more than that? Or is it simply for status i.e. "Beverly Hills"</p>
 
ocprince,





I've lived in Irvine for about 23 years - I grew up here and I'm a product of the "highly touted" school system - (elementary, middle, high school) before going off to college. Somehow I find myself back working in the area. Honestly, I have no idea why Irvine is considered the "it" place. While the school system is very good, it by no means guarantees your child's entry to the Ivies or similar prestigious universities. If I remember correctly, each year University High sends like 7-8 people to Stanford, 2-3 to Harvard, 2-3 to MIT, 2-3 to Yale/Princeton... so around 15 out of a class of 600-700 get to go to the very prestigious private universities. Not great odds. This is for the "best" high school in Irvine. Frankly, I feel the public school system is a bit overrated - the big reason why schools like University High and Northwood rack up all these academic accolades is due to the large population of kids who come from overachieving, affluent minority families. There is so much academic pressure from the parents already - all the schools need to provide is a sufficient number of AP subjects and PRESTO - HIGH SAT averages and HIGH passing rate of AP tests = HIGH API score. You might be better off living in say Yorba Linda and then sending your kids to Phillips Exeter or Harvard-Westlake if you want your kids closer to you...





In the last 23 years, when I've told people that I lived in Irvine, I've never gotten anything close to a reaction like: "WOW, YOU LIVE IN IRVINE!?" While Irvine is gaining a reputation for a place where the "quiet wealth" reside - mostly due to Shady Canyon - it has a ways to go before people will mention Irvine the same breath as Beverly Hills, Malibu, Newport Beach, etc.





I will say this - Irvine is probably the safest OC city - it probably has the most zealous (or bored depending on how you look at it) cops in the county. I once was stopped by a patrol car - I was riding a bike at dusk with a helmet in the bike lane, but I didn't have a blinking rear red light. I forgot to mention that the patrol car flashed the sirens and engaged the loudspeaker: "PULL OVER TO THE SIDE." Half the cars on the street thought the officer wanted them to pull over - he just wanted me (a middle schooler riding his bike back home from tennis practice) to "pull over" to the curb. He got out and lectured me about the LAW, and he almost wrote me a ticket, but finally let me off with a warning.





Irvine police also had a bad rep back in 70s and 80s for being extremely racist - my middle school teacher (a little, old white lady) told the class that she was pulled over because of the condition of the van she was in, the van also had a big dog in it - the police thought that based on the rundown appearance of the van, the occupants were "unsavory characters (re: Mexican or Black)." It turns out the driver was something like the superintendent of the school district at the time and my teacher was well, a respected history teacher.





I remember Will Ferrell appeared on Letterman or Leno once back in the mid-90s and also complained about the cops in Irvine when he was going to University High.





Anyway, back to housing, those houses on 1 acre lots in Philly would be going for like 5 million+ here (in Shady Canyon). Welcome to Irvine... my family is also looking for a new house in the 1.2-2mil range and frankly, there is no way you are going to get your bang for the buck here.
 
I love Irvine. I work in Irvine, so living here means no freeway commute. That is worth, well, it is just priceless to me. Irvine is safe; again, priceless. Irvine has lots of new, easy to get to retail centers. Also, one day when I do buy, it will be within walking distance for my son to his schools and a retail center. I recall as a little kid I had a terribly long walk along major roads just to get to a 7-11 for some Jolly Ranchers. I want my child to have the freedom to ride his bike to a nice, safe retail center with his friends on a Saturday afternoon, after playing all day at one of Irvine's amazing parks (ever go to Col Bill Barber park with a 6-year-old? Wow. Nothin' like that in North OC where I used to live.
 
<p>ocprince - I think it is good to be talking about other areas of OC. The Toll Brothers homes are big and even with the inflated values I think the price point is not insane. They did drop the price a while back so they were higher. The high school is El Dorado so yes the money you would be saving on HOA dues and mello roos would go to a private school. If the high school was Esperanza then it would be different. If you can afford that price point then you should go check them out and see what incentives you can grind out of them. For a comparision in monthly payment looking at the Coto floorplan 3937 sqft in the Legends community for about $1.2mil, 20% $240k down payment, 6.5% 30 yr fixed rate monthly payment is $7100 with taxes. Looking at floor plan 3 4029 sqft in the Serra community of Portola Springs $1.5mil, 20% $300k down payment, 6.5% 30 yr fixed rate monthly payment is $10,010 with taxes, hoa and mello roos. You can send two kids to Mater Dei with the payment difference and have a nice college fund with the $60k you saved on the down payment by choosing YL over Irvine.</p>

<p>As for Villa Park I grew up there and live there now. Almost all of the homes are large sqft and the lots are large as well. Most of the homes are older and either need to be fixed up or already have been. Plus you would have more expenses compared to a new home. Prices have been all over the place for even what I would say is like for like property. A house on my street that was in the foreclosure process sold for $1.1 recently and it is a dump for VP and it was a rental. Two houses around the way sold for under a million and they were in a better location and in better shape. So either the buyer is foreign money and didn't care about the price or something shady is going on. Especially when another house that was bigger and better location was on the market for $1.1mil and didn't sell. Now it is back on the market and I should check the price. As for VP high it is a public school so if your kids are good students they will get good teachers. If they are not then it is gamble if they will get good teachers. Other things to consider is that you have to get a permit for everything they can think of like a new dishwasher or if you plan on installing an irrigation system. Most people probably don't even know or don't care like me and I have never seen it enforced. The other thing is a lot of the people who live here have been here for years and are a bit snotty and it has been that way for 30 years. There are some really great people too and you never know when you might run into one of the Boone family members. Oh and no street lights. Irvine used to be the place where people were buying because they couldn't afford VP or YL much like Corona is today. Ok enough rambling.</p>
 
<p>Graphrix</p>

<p>thanks for all the inside scoop on VP. When I first came here, I felt VP reminded me the most of the East Coast and actually It is the area I find most interesting until I start reading this blog. In fact, I put a bid on a home on Coral Tree--it was rejected, because I felt it needed a lot of work and I wanted to save some money for the upgrades so I offered a lower bid. Looking back, I'm so glad it fell through b/c I think there are better homes out there now. I would love to hear your input as what you think is a good area of VP and which you think are good deals. I haven't noticed anything with a greater than 20,000 sq ft lot for less than a million. Is the rental you are talking about on Jocotal? Tell me about the one back on the market. I've noticed several on Ziprealty from flippers that seemed like they were well renovated, but they weren't selling at all. One on Helena and the other on via san bravo. Personally, I think in the future these areas with big lots will once again be more desirable as there is less and less areas like this around.</p>
 
Lot size is one big plus (to my mind) about Villa Park. There are finally some homes priced below $1M, and I'm hoping for more. There are also more foreclosures than I would have expected - many of which don't show up as for sale on the MLS. For OC, VP is more "old money" and used to have the attendant snob appeal. It may still, but I don't hear about it as much.
 
<p>EvaLSeraphim - VP is still has the "old money" here and just when you think one has left they are replaced by more of a "new money" snob. There are down to earth good people here but we do have the jerks that think their *%$& doesn't stink that ruin it for the good people.</p>

<p>ocprince - Finding a 20k sqft lot in VP even in a down market will be tough. There are not that many homes here and most are bought to live in so not much comes on the market. We had 4 transactions last month per dataquick and if we had 1 more our sales volume would be unchanged. The place that I think is coming back on the market is on Prado Woods. I will check ziprealty to see if it is on there again and post the link later if it is. If you were looking at a home on Coral Tree then you probably won't care for it. If you are familar with the homes in VP and you will know exactly what I mean when I say it is one that has a dorm like feel to it. Not only that it needs some work and the "built in BBQ" looks as if a 5 year old installed it. Prado Woods has great homes and this isn't one of them. The rental I spoke of was not on Jocotal but without disclosing exactly where I live I am across the way from Prado Woods/VP road or south from there. If you are serious about buying in VP then get to know Kelly the owner of Waynes Liquor. He knows more people and gossip of VP than anyone but he has a vested interest in the Caldwell Banker office next door. If you can get him to trust you and you can get past his BS (bring a big shovel) he could let you in on what he knows. Yes as cheesey as that is it is true. If I hear anything I will let you know. Keep in mind too that there are a lot of people here tied to the RE industry. I know of a few contractors who could be hurting if the slow down continues. As for good areas it is pretty much hit or miss. What do you define as a good area? If you are thinking of quality of construction my home was built by a builder who paid his workers in beer and then some how still went bk. Seriously I dread starting a project because I fear what other can of worms it may open. If you do decide to buy here find an anal retentive inspector. I don't think most people think of the costs of ownership when it comes to the little problems that come up when they are used to their landlord paying for it. I know that I didn't.</p>
 
Oh and I forgot to add that the old historic house with the east coast columns across the way from Coral Tree has a haunted house story behind it.
 
Graph,





I apologize. I didn't express myself very well earlier. I didn't mean to imply that all the people who live in VP were snobs. In my (limited) experience, they certainly are not. Rather, there are some people who would be drawn to the area because of its old money roots and think they could gain such status by association.
 
<p>Graphix, all great info. I've actually followed VP for quite awhile (early last year); however, thanks to this forum and other "bubble blogs" I've been more open minded to other areas, and more patient about watching and waiting. When looking at VP, I knew I would be getting something older so I always had a plan of saving some cash for the renovations. I think in VP I was most interested in the lot size and location. I followed a couple properties on Montana, a couple on Via San Bravo.--all of which were old ranch style home. I didn't pull the trigger on those b/c I felt they had more room to go down, but apparently not b/c as soon as they came down to about 1.1, 1.2 millions they get snatched up. Then there are those newer ones in the gated communities "three arches circle", "morningstar circle"--my wife loved this one and was pushing for it. I think the realtor told us that this was supposedly a model home. I must admit although the lot was "smaller", the pool and everything was done very nicely and the home was "newer". I didn't go for it b/c I didn't like the HOA idea, and at the time I felt the lot was too small with the pool taking up all the room and no place for the kid to run. Looking back, after having seen all the stuff in Irvine, this lot (I think 11K) would be considered huge. Anyway, what do you think of this newer neighborhood in VP. To me it didn't fit in, but to my wife it's a good compromise between the old and new. Three arches circle is available now at 1.25 (definitely too high, compared to what the others there were getting) I may consider it more seriously if someone "in the know" thinks these are good buys.</p>
 
To: ocprince,





If I'm not mistaken, Vistal Del Verde is next to Black Gold golf course right? Nice big palatial homes with grand entrance way, rolling stairs, and maid quarters downstairs? That's prolly one of the nicer developments in West Yorba Linda. I think they were $900+ to start in phase 1.





If you're looking in Yorba Linda, stick with the west side. The east side is a mess to get in/out of, and imperial highway is scary when 91 is clogged. The city didn't do a very good job at environmental/traffic studies and build better infrastructure when they developed the eastern end. But on the west side you can dodge most of those problems.









 
ocprince,





If you preferred large lots, you may want to check out North Tustin 92705. I've seen some good deals recently on ziprealty.





HQT homes, a small builder, also has some new homes called Mahogany at North Tustin,http://www.hqthomes.com/mahogany/mahogany.asp


These homes are not as nice as Toll Brothers' but the commute to GG is much better.





Irvine is very nice but overrated IMHO.
 
in fact, i've never seen any newer home in irvine with real wood garage doors. even in the multi-million dollar tracts in turtle ridge the garage doors aren't solid wood.
 
momopi is right, while east YL is the newer area, it has all the traffic problems. The worst area is Imperial Highway between Orangethorpe (railroad track) and La Palma (POOR TRAFFIC LIGHT TIMING).





91E is terrible too, with the Lakewood, Imperial, and Weir Canyon all exits that back into the freeway (there's a reason that sigalert shows RED in these areas EVERYDAY)





I've been ranting about this for years, and finally this forum is a perfect home for such rants!
 
<p>Eval - No need to apologize because you are right there are snobby people here old or new money and unfortunately I don't think it will ever change. I worked at the Ralphs in VP while I went to JC before I transferred and I got a first hand experience of how snobby they could be. I also worked at Waynes Liquor in VP and maybe it was the alcohol but I got to meet some really great people. So no offence was taken because you are right. As kids growing up here some of us thought that the LV handbags came with the Mercedes.</p>

<p>acpme - You are right there are many very well built homes by builders who were or are very reputable and care about the product they build. In the mid 70's the price run up on materials killed many builders including the one that built my house and several others around VP. Some of the homes he built were built well but when things tightened up his work suffered and ultimately he went BK. The home is solid overall with good structural materials like the old wood garage doors (mine had to be replaced too much dry rot and the motors for the opener aren't really made for them anymore or maybe I just bought cheap ones). There are just little things like the drain pipe for the kitchen sink, dishwasher and laundry room is too small so every other year my plumber comes out to snake it. Also I just noticed that there is a release valve for the laundry room that the builder covered with the stucco. I have other bigger problems that I have had to take care of too. All I was really trying to say was there are some bad apples in basket full of great apples and that it is important to use an experienced inspector and not one recommended by the Realtor. </p>
 
<p>Quickly, My co-worker is in escrow with a condo in La Palma. I’ve been reading all these blogs and understand what the market is going to do, but she doesnt and I just found out what she and her family are about to do. I think they close in like 2 weeks. The address is</p>

<p>8586 Santa Margarita Lane


La Palma, CA 90623</p>

<p>I think they’re buying for $455K for this dinky 1200+ sq ft condo. She says it’s a nice area but NO WAY! I tried to persuade her but it’s a first home and the heart is where it is. Plus, I guessed that her Realtor was also representing the buyer. I WAS RIGHT!</p>

<p>Can any of you get more info on this area? I’m trying to talk her out of it. If not, I’m trying to get her to lower the price. Her realtor is givin her the same crap speech about they have other bids. WHAT A BUNCH OF CROCK!</p>

<p>HELLLLLLPPPP!!!!!!</p>

<p>Thanks GUYS!</p>
 
<p>As a popcorn-wielding bubblesitter, I watch Irvine because it's the ultimate "declines will never happen here" city. It's pretty clear that places like Fraudera are toast, but Irvine seems to have avoided most of the trouble so far.</p>

<p>When we finally see Irvine experience some pain, we'll know that the bear-market has truly taken hold.</p>
 
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