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I agree that people's investments should be there own responsibility. I agree with you. But 401k's are the most popular investment tool, which means there are millions of uneducated people who have them. We can't assume that people who can't even find Washington DC on a map to be able to manage a 401k properly.
 
<blockquote>You have only won ONE small round in the investment sweepstakes. Who is to say that Charles Keating ( or Mr. Hyperinflation) will not figure out how to steal your ?insured? CD?s? How secure will you feel then? Let?s see how smart we all are when we retire. I have been fairly conservative in my 51 years. If I was actually SMART instead of conservative, I would have had a ride on the stock market bubble of 2000 and the real estate bubble of 2007. Or maybe rolled the dice in the gold bubble we are in now. It is the age old question"if you are so smart, why aren?t you rich??



If you are think you are the big winner because you retire rich and early, then just hope your health holds out to enjoy it?.yes LIFE really is beyond our control.</blockquote>


Maybe you need to look at the good side of life for a while. We all have good and bad times but with the constant input from the media and talking heads one might believe that the world is ending tomorrow. If you are 51 then you have seen things come and go and somehow we do survive. We do not all win but that is our own choice.



<strong>I think IPO has done some very sound conservative planning with the purchase, successful sale , in a tough market, and low risk investment in CDs of his profit. That is all one can do these days. I just spent 2 days in the OC and I got the feeling that the fast paced, expensive auto, well dressed, lifestyle is alive and well.</strong>

We are all responsible for our own well being and if we turn that over to investment types, real estate agents, loan reps, or the government then we are setting ourselves up for failure. Maybe someone in your family should have taken more interest in your Mother's investments. As far as your brother goes anyone who plays at that level should be aware of the risks. If he is building shopping centers then he is playing in the big leagues and certainly expected the upside but has to deal with the downside without whining.



The hardtimes we are heading into may help to toughen up a lot of people who have had it very easy. Some will do well and others will wilt.



My personal feeling is that I can't help being a target but never will I be a victim. It is my duty to control those things in life that I can and insulate myself and family from those things I can't control.



Stay Free
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1228366789]I shudder to think what would happen to my mom if she did not have me to take care of her retirement funds.</blockquote>


Amen. My father-in-law would probably have allowed some hack money manager to piss away half his retirement savings by now. Two years ago I pestered him so much he let me move his IRA and take control over his investments... I wasted the performance of his professional money manager when the stock market was still rising and have preserved 100% of those gains during this downturn.
 
<blockquote>If my insured CDs disappear, then our government and entire economy will have collapsed. I?m not really going to worry about or try to plan for such a contingency</blockquote>


IPO



I totally agree with you on that one. If we have a failure of that magnitude then we need to fall back to the 3-Gs: Guns,Gold, and Gasoline. Always a good backup.



Enjoy!
 
I can be very blunt...and I apologize for that.



I just can't fathom giving someone money unless I understand what is being done with it. This is just common sense and not a question of being a professional or an expert. If someone is abusing yoru 401K, hire a lawyer and nail them.



When things are going up such as housing and stock market...everybody is happy and doesn't care about 8% front load fees or what the managers are doing with the money.

When the home prices are soaring, nobody cares what the interest rates are or when they reset or whether they can afford it or if it makes sense.



When things are falling...everybody is a victim and screams FOUL! If home prices were still soaring today, would anybody come out and say hey...I'm a victim of predatory lending...
 
[quote author="Failedagent" date=1228290992]I have not asked my mother in law how she managed to lose $500K out of a $700K nest egg. Right now, she won't talk to anybody, she is in shock. My sister in law says she just sits in front of the TV and refuses to talk to anybody, and my sister in law also confirms that the $500K evaporated. All I know is that she gave her 401K account to the Wells Fargo 401K financial advisors. Unfortunately that is the extent of my mother in law's financial education, give your money to an "expert". When she grew up in Iowa, men were supposed to handle the money and women took care of the house and kids.



My brother the real estate developer, was just on his last deal with a shopping center in Wisconsin. He had AAA tenants sign for leases, but they are backing out with an army of attorneys. He is losing $50,000K per month. He will be bankrupt long before he can get an attorney to collect on the leases. This is the number one problem when you do business with the big corporations, you can't collect because of the legal costs involved....and they know it. This is why I have shied away from leasing our commercial real estate to big names. It's better to deal with local businesses, and you get a slightly higher rate.



You can ALWAYS say that peopel were foolish with this investment, or that investment. I think it is worthy enough that people simply tried to invest at all. We aren't talking about a lot of spendthrifts here. These people did the best they knew to save for the future, and they weren't gambling their money in get rich quick schemes.



By the way, commercial real estate never saw the crazy loan shemes that residential real estate used. It was always 25-35 percent down, and 5-20 year loans based on 30 year amortization schedules. What was crazy (in retrospect) was that people were willing to buy at 4.5% cap rates. It costs about 4.5% just to operate a commercial building, yielding zero cash flow and totally dependent on asset appreciation to make any sense.</blockquote>


My brother lost 2/3 of his 401K. I told him to sell several moons ago. He has all his eggs in one basket or one stock to be more specific. But at least he has other money. Not completely broke.
 
[quote author="blackvault_cm" date=1228364905][quote author="lendingmaestro" date=1228364231]she probably had a lot of money in her company's stock would be my guess. I know people who put 50% to 100% of their 401k in their companies stock. You can lose all of your 401k.</blockquote>


Ok so be it. But I guess I just don't get why I should feel sorry for something like that. Just what Graph said if you have that much money sitting around, it is your responsibility to educate yourself to take care of it. Nobody is asking her to be a wall st. expert, but I don't see why its hard for people to go out and educate themselves on the basics. My wife hates the stock-market. She doesn't even want me to talk about it around her as it doesn't interest her. But she damn knows the basics enough to know someone isn't taking advantage of her.



You need to invest time and understand the following concept and that is to follow your money.



You get a paycheck and money gets taken out and placed in the 401K. Check. Do you not wonder where in the 401K that goes and what happens to it? If you do, then you will take the next step and find out. Once you see that it is going to fund A, B or C...you will notice that it changed in value up/down. If you don't like that you money went down, wouldn't you want to find out more as to why and how you can protect it? I mean for crying outloud people if your checking has a debit of -1000 that you are not aware of...wouldn't you inquire about it? Baffling...



Are people that irresponsible? I'm starting to think people just get money taken out of their paycheck...it goes to a 401K, and I bet they don't even know the institution that holds their money, or their account or password to track it. I bet they don't even know what they have...If this is you. You don't even deserve a -70% loss. You deserve -100% loss.</blockquote>


Common BV, not everybody is financial savy as you. Have a heart.
 
[quote author="blackvault_cm" date=1228368692]I can be very blunt...and I apologize for that.



I just can't fathom giving someone money unless I understand what is being done with it. This is just common sense and not a question of being a professional or an expert. If someone is abusing yoru 401K, hire a lawyer and nail them.



When things are going up such as housing and stock market...everybody is happy and doesn't care about 8% front load fees or what the managers are doing with the money.

When the home prices are soaring, nobody cares what the interest rates are or when they reset or whether they can afford it or if it makes sense.



When things are falling...everybody is a victim and screams FOUL! If home prices were still soaring today, would anybody come out and say hey...I'm a victim of predatory lending...</blockquote>


Not everybody. I never paid a dime for front load.
 
[quote author="WestparkRenter" date=1228372856][quote author="blackvault_cm" date=1228364905][quote author="lendingmaestro" date=1228364231]she probably had a lot of money in her company's stock would be my guess. I know people who put 50% to 100% of their 401k in their companies stock. You can lose all of your 401k.</blockquote>


Ok so be it. But I guess I just don't get why I should feel sorry for something like that. Just what Graph said if you have that much money sitting around, it is your responsibility to educate yourself to take care of it. Nobody is asking her to be a wall st. expert, but I don't see why its hard for people to go out and educate themselves on the basics. My wife hates the stock-market. She doesn't even want me to talk about it around her as it doesn't interest her. But she damn knows the basics enough to know someone isn't taking advantage of her.



You need to invest time and understand the following concept and that is to follow your money.



You get a paycheck and money gets taken out and placed in the 401K. Check. Do you not wonder where in the 401K that goes and what happens to it? If you do, then you will take the next step and find out. Once you see that it is going to fund A, B or C...you will notice that it changed in value up/down. If you don't like that you money went down, wouldn't you want to find out more as to why and how you can protect it? I mean for crying outloud people if your checking has a debit of -1000 that you are not aware of...wouldn't you inquire about it? Baffling...



Are people that irresponsible? I'm starting to think people just get money taken out of their paycheck...it goes to a 401K, and I bet they don't even know the institution that holds their money, or their account or password to track it. I bet they don't even know what they have...If this is you. You don't even deserve a -70% loss. You deserve -100% loss.</blockquote>


Common BV, not everybody is financial savy as you. Have a heart.</blockquote>


Once again it's not about being financialy savy. It's simply about caring what is happening to your money. If you are down 70% did it happen overnight? No. If you payed attention to it and inquired about it when it was down -10, -20, -30% etc. then perhaps one wouldn't be in that mess to begin with.



CARE about your money and stop being reckless...then I will feel sorry for you. The issue here is that major risk were taken, it didn't pan out...and its time to point fingers. Just like people buying homes at peak of 2006. When things were great...it was time to gloat how much we are making not caring how we got the loans as long as we got them so we can make even more. When things go south...then it's everybody's fault...except their own.



It's like everybody was under this notion that if I buy something it can only go up...never down. To be honest...everybody has to sign a piece a paper that states that they understand the risk in the stock market. Just like they signed that their arm loans are going to reset and their payments will triple come year 2009. But nope...greed rules and kills at the same time.



And if Failedagent cared even 1% about his mother, knowing himself that she doesn't know anything about investing, he would have helped her out since he says he did really well himself and avoided the downfall in this market.



I have a heart btw. I have a heart for those who don't have the opportunity to even have a 401k. Their future planning goals are how they will feed themselves and their children the following day, not worrying whether they will have a few hundred K's so they can travel the world.



Thats all. I won't post much on this thread anymore as I think this comes down to each individuals beliefs and cultures and how they were raised. Perhaps my view of responsibility is different than others. We can go back and forth on this forever I think just like politics.
 
I've worked for a mutual fund company for 12 years, and being stupid, lost about 48% of my fund's value in recent market down-turn. I bought mostly growth funds like VHGEX:



<img src="http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/1y/v/vhgex" alt="" />





But then I know the risks that I was taking, and I'm 30 years from retirement.



If you're in your 60's or older, you shouldn't have a mostly aggressive growth portfolio. That's common sense to any decent financial adviser. At least half of the money should be in cash and bonds.
 
Look here blackvault, my mother in law is NOT my mother. I have no say over what she does with her money! I don't quite get where some of the attitude in these posts comes from....
 
[quote author="Failedagent" date=1228391947]Look here blackvault, my mother in law is NOT my mother. I have no say over what she does with her money! I don't quite get where some of the attitude in these posts comes from....</blockquote>


So what you are saying is that you warned her of her high risk taking and she ignored it? Or are you saying you didn't warn her at all? Which one was the careless one...you or her?



I'll tell you what...



Contact your mother in law and find out exactly what fund she invested in. Go look at the money trail and pin down exactly where the money disappeared. Second, dig up the papers she signed where she acknowledged the risks of investing in the stock market. Third there should be a piece of paper she signed that showed the risk level she wanted to take. IF the risks taken by Wells Fargo were outside her risk tolerance, simply have her sue them and recoup her money. Easy.



However...I doubt that was the case, but feel free to prove me otherwise.
 
i think from the original post it sounds like failedagent visited the in-laws for turkeyday and found out about their situation. maybe his in-laws aren't local or they're off in retirement somewhere and completely independent. some folks like it that way and don't have their children involved in all aspects of their day to day affairs, including their finances.
 
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