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[quote author="freedomCM" date=1240991489]Uni high is very good, but iirc not in the top 50 in the US



but may be in the top 200



Did you look at newport coast/beach?</blockquote>


No, I didn't, but heard about the massive deals there right now. I have never explored it as a place to live, so will definately do that once I get back to California. Another market I will check out and keep an eye on.
 
[quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1240991427][quote author="gypsyuma" date=1240985696]





I refuse to use an agent, so I was doing all this on my own. Why jack up the price of a home, when I have a cell phone, a laptop, and a GPS system??? </blockquote>


Gypsyuma, I recommend you read through <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/4163/">this thread</a> where we discussed the pros and cons of using a buyer's agent.



If you go into the transaction without an agent, you are not going to save money because the seller's agent will keep the full 6% commission.</blockquote>


Really? Wow, it doesn't work that way in TX. I will definately take a look at that thread.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1240994162][quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1240991427][quote author="gypsyuma" date=1240985696]





I refuse to use an agent, so I was doing all this on my own. Why jack up the price of a home, when I have a cell phone, a laptop, and a GPS system??? </blockquote>


Gypsyuma, I recommend you read through <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/4163/">this thread</a> where we discussed the pros and cons of using a buyer's agent.



If you go into the transaction without an agent, you are not going to save money because the seller's agent will keep the full 6% commission.</blockquote>


I disagree 1000%. No one in my family has used a buyer's agent in the last twenty years. We make our offers with the decreased commission in mind. So far, not one transaction has included a full commission.</blockquote>


This is how I have always done it too - I would get a nice discount usually.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1240997084][quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1240995425][quote author="awgee" date=1240994162][quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1240991427][quote author="gypsyuma" date=1240985696]





I refuse to use an agent, so I was doing all this on my own. Why jack up the price of a home, when I have a cell phone, a laptop, and a GPS system??? </blockquote>


Gypsyuma, I recommend you read through <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/4163/">this thread</a> where we discussed the pros and cons of using a buyer's agent.



If you go into the transaction without an agent, you are not going to save money because the seller's agent will keep the full 6% commission.</blockquote>


I disagree 1000%. No one in my family has used a buyer's agent in the last twenty years. We make our offers with the decreased commission in mind. So far, not one transaction has included a full commission.</blockquote>


Well, from my understanding of the thread discussion I linked. In order to avoid the seller's agent getting less than 6% rate, you would have to amend the contract between the seller and seller's agent. I'm not sure how to do this. If this is not correct, then how do decrease the rate to say 3% for the seller's agent?

In one of your previous posts, you suggested offering 3% less on the purchase price in order to compensate for the lack of a buyer's agent. However, if you do that then the seller's agent will still get 6% of the amount offered. How does this put you in a better position to get an accepted offer from the seller? IMO, getting a buyer's agent that will kick you back a portion of the commission would be the cheapest route for both the seller and buyer.</blockquote>
Exactly correct, the listing contract spells out the commission and is between the SELLER and LISTING BROKER (it's the listing broker that owns the listing and not the agent). Notice how the buyer's agent/broker and the buyers are not parties to the listing contract. People may think that if they don't use a buyer's agent they can throw out a 3% lower lower offer because they think they are saving the seller the 3% buy-side commission. The reality is that the seller will still have to pay the listing agent the full 6% on a 3% lower sales price. The only way to decrease the seller's listing agent commission to 3% if no buyer's agent was involved would be to amend the original listing contract (you have a better chance of seeing mortgage rates go to 0% before this happens). Don't you think if it was as simple as Awgee makes it seem that there would be lot of buyers who wouldn't use buyers agents and ask for a 3% lower sales price and force the listing agents to only take a 3% commission (1/2) with success? Trust me, realtors/NAR won't allow that to happen because it would take money out of their pockets. IMHO...the path of least resistance is to find a buyer's agent who is open to contributing a portion of their commission back to the buyers' escrow (especially if those buyers are sophisticated and reduce the workload on the buyers' agent).</blockquote>


Good to know. I have never purchased in CA, so this is different way of doing things. My husband knows an agent in CA, so when I am ready to buy, I will simply relay the transaction thru him and make a deal with him.
 
Just thinking.



If I am selling a $500,000 or more home, and my agent brings me an less than full asking price offer with no buyer's agent involved, the first thing out of my agent's mouth better be that they will decrease the commission by the buyer's agent amount, or the agent will lose the listing the first chance I have. And I am no different than every other So Cal seller. Everybody knows what is up, and the idea that the seller's agent will receive a full 6% commission of a no buyer's agent sale is laughable. More realtor scare tactic.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1241129392]Just thinking.



If I am selling a $500,000 or more home, and my agent brings me an less than full asking price offer with no buyer's agent involved, the first thing out of my agent's mouth better be that they will decrease the commission by the buyer's agent amount, or the agent will lose the listing the first chance I have. And I am no different than every other So Cal seller. Everybody knows what is up, and the idea that the seller's agent will receive a full 6% commission of a no buyer's agent sale is laughable. More realtor scare tactic.</blockquote>
That's what happened with our sale. We had two offers, one with a buyer's agent, the other without. The one without was of course lower than the one with but we were going to take it because our agent was going to discount the commission so the net would have been about the same and theirs was a high-cash FCB deal so the closing process seemed like it would be faster.



In the end... the one with the agent raised their offer to make our net higher with them and we ended up selling to them (the non-agent party was our back-up).
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1241129392]Just thinking.



If I am selling a $500,000 or more home, and my agent brings me an less than full asking price offer with no buyer's agent involved, the first thing out of my agent's mouth better be that they will decrease the commission by the buyer's agent amount, or the agent will lose the listing the first chance I have. And I am no different than every other So Cal seller. Everybody knows what is up, and the idea that the seller's agent will receive a full 6% commission of a no buyer's agent sale is laughable. More realtor scare tactic.</blockquote>


In a market with rational agents, what you say makes perfect sense. I suspect you would find that in our kool-aid intoxicated market that the listing agent would tell a seller that they should hold out for a better price (with the hope of getting the full 6% commission). During the bubble, this advice would have worked because if you just wait long enough, a higher bid would come in. Agent greed and manipulation would cause you to dump the agent, but I don't believe sellers are as sophisticated at you would like to believe. You are, but most aren't. Many sellers would be afraid to suggest that their agent lower their commission to close the deal for fear of offending them--which is another scare tactic, but it is an effective one.



BTW, I am not condoning these realtor practices, nor am I suggesting that sophisticated buyers and sellers should use a realtor. Hopefully, the blog and these forums can educate people to the point that they can go it alone. However, there are people who benefit from the assistance of someone who does this every day and has developed skills that novices may not have. Some people do not want to learn the nuances of buying and selling real estate, and they want to turn to a professional when they need that service. There are people who always defend themselves in lawsuits too. If you are smart and willing to study the case law, you can do that too. Personally, that is an area where I would hire expert help.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1241129392]Just thinking.



If I am selling a $500,000 or more home, and my agent brings me an less than full asking price offer with no buyer's agent involved, the first thing out of my agent's mouth better be that they will decrease the commission by the buyer's agent amount, or the agent will lose the listing the first chance I have. And I am no different than every other So Cal seller. Everybody knows what is up, and the idea that the seller's agent will receive a full 6% commission of a no buyer's agent sale is laughable. More realtor scare tactic.</blockquote>
Again, you are making another assumption that most sellers and buyers will/should be as sophisticated as you. Not the case with the general public. You'd be suprised how little even educated people really know about real estate and the process of a real estate transaction or have no desire to know or some people are happy to let a realtor handle things because they don't want to focus their time and energy with the transaction. People like you are the minority.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1241140383][quote author="awgee" date=1241129392]Just thinking.



If I am selling a $500,000 or more home, and my agent brings me an less than full asking price offer with no buyer's agent involved, the first thing out of my agent's mouth better be that they will decrease the commission by the buyer's agent amount, or the agent will lose the listing the first chance I have. And I am no different than every other So Cal seller. Everybody knows what is up, and the idea that the seller's agent will receive a full 6% commission of a no buyer's agent sale is laughable. More realtor scare tactic.</blockquote>
Again, you are making another assumption that most sellers and buyers will/should be as sophisticated as you. Not the case with the general public. You'd be suprised how little even educated people really know about real estate and the process of a real estate transaction or have no desire to know or some people are happy to let a realtor handle things because they don't want to focus their time and energy with the transaction. People like you are the minority.</blockquote>


This so true. When I first started my career in financial planning I thought 'geez, I can't believe our clients pay us for this'. Then after the years went by I changed my thinking to 'geez, if our clients let us go they'd be screwed'. The pool of people who are either clueless or just don't want to handle their finances seems endless. The clients with the most education-doctors, lawyers, and professors- are the worst too. It makes sense, though, many professionals are over extended and don't want to take the time to research finance on their off days.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1241140383][quote author="awgee" date=1241129392]Just thinking.



If I am selling a $500,000 or more home, and my agent brings me an less than full asking price offer with no buyer's agent involved, the first thing out of my agent's mouth better be that they will decrease the commission by the buyer's agent amount, or the agent will lose the listing the first chance I have. And I am no different than every other So Cal seller. Everybody knows what is up, and the idea that the seller's agent will receive a full 6% commission of a no buyer's agent sale is laughable. More realtor scare tactic.</blockquote>
Again, you are making another assumption that most sellers and buyers will/should be as sophisticated as you. Not the case with the general public. You'd be suprised how little even educated people really know about real estate and the process of a real estate transaction or have no desire to know or some people are happy to let a realtor handle things because they don't want to focus their time and energy with the transaction. People like you are the minority.</blockquote>


<strong>HELLO</strong> all you out there.

Is there anyone reading this who did not know that if you are selling a home, your listing agent stands to make twice as much commission if the buyer comes into the deal with no agent?







If it is true that most sellers and buyers are not as sophisticated as me, (and I highly doubt that as I realize just how ignorant I am), would it not better to educate them than to take advantage of them?







My observation is that realtors and the NAR propagate fear and ignorance rather than understanding and education.







And to IRs point that some folks need help with an re transaction. It is my experience that an re transaction is no less complicated with the involvement of a buyer's agent. Yes, folks need help. I have never said they do not need help. And, a buyer's agent will not be their best source for unbiased help, especially for the "unsophisticated."







An aside. I know much less about real estate than you may think. But, I do know what I don't know. And I have specific people from the IHB picked out ahead of time whom I will call upon for help when it is time for my wife and I to buy. I have a list in my head of who is expert at what and who has what type of information available, and I will not be shy about asking for their help.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1241150274][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1241140383][quote author="awgee" date=1241129392]Just thinking.



If I am selling a $500,000 or more home, and my agent brings me an less than full asking price offer with no buyer's agent involved, the first thing out of my agent's mouth better be that they will decrease the commission by the buyer's agent amount, or the agent will lose the listing the first chance I have. And I am no different than every other So Cal seller. Everybody knows what is up, and the idea that the seller's agent will receive a full 6% commission of a no buyer's agent sale is laughable. More realtor scare tactic.</blockquote>
Again, you are making another assumption that most sellers and buyers will/should be as sophisticated as you. Not the case with the general public. You'd be suprised how little even educated people really know about real estate and the process of a real estate transaction or have no desire to know or some people are happy to let a realtor handle things because they don't want to focus their time and energy with the transaction. People like you are the minority.</blockquote>


<strong>HELLO</strong> all you out there.

Is there anyone reading this who did not know that if you are selling a home, your listing agent stands to make twice as much commission if the buyer comes into the deal with no agent?







If it is true that most sellers and buyers are not as sophisticated as me, (and I highly doubt that as I realize just how ignorant I am), would it not better to educate them than to take advantage of them?







My observation is that realtors and the NAR propagate fear and ignorance rather than understanding and education.







And to IRs point that some folks need help with an re transaction. It is my experience that an re transaction is no less complicated with the involvement of a buyer's agent. Yes, folks need help. I have never said they do not need help. And, a buyer's agent will not be their best source for unbiased help, especially for the "unsophisticated."







An aside. I know much less about real estate than you may think. But, I do know what I don't know. And I have specific people from the IHB picked out ahead of time whom I will call upon for help when it is time for my wife and I to buy. I have a list in my head of who is expert at what and who has what type of information available, and I will not be shy about asking for their help.</blockquote>
Don't be so modest Awgee, we all know you know your stuff especially when it comes to finances and real estate (maybe not the jack of as many trades as No_Vas but nevertheless super sharp). I'm right there with you about the realtors and NAR spitting out trying to spook people into being more dependent on realtors than they otherwise should be. If it were up to me, I would make the requirements to become a realtor a lot more difficult (kinda like what I have had to do to become a CPA). The worst thing that the NAR did for themselves and the general reputation of realtors was allow any joe 6pack with a pulse to become a real estate agent with no education or mentoring/experience required.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1241152019]The worst thing that the NAR did for themselves and the general reputation of realtors was allow any joe 6pack with a pulse to become a real estate agent with no education or mentoring/experience required.</blockquote>


The abandonment of truth and reason in favor of propaganda and manipulation is another mistake they have made. This is easier with ignorant realtors who do not know any better. I suppose the two go together.



Actually, when I think about it, I cannot remember a time when propaganda and manipulation wasn't their method of generating sales...
 
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