New Listing - Silverleaf Plan 3 detached condo @ Portola Springs (115 Excursion)

[WTTCHMN]

I received a couple questions via PM about why we was so surprised about the selling price that I thought I'd address.  Yes, some of you are correct in pointing out that the sales office is selling the base models around 880-890k based on exterior elevations and preplots.  We know full well about that, considering I have been collecting every single phase release pricing sheet from Phase 1 until 15 in a binder.  So the expectation would be 900k at least right?  Not so fast - because we actually did a refi just 3 months before closing in Nov 2017 where the appraised value was $785k (yes, bet some people didn't expect that one).  The lender was Bank of America by the way, not some no name lender using a fly-by-night appraiser so it carried a lot of weight on our minds.  Also, we lucked out because our buyers were putting 50% down so the appraisals don't matter, but our first appraisal came in 850k, second one (due to buyer changing lenders halfway through) came in at 880k.  You can see how if the 50% down buyer fell through, most of our backups were very close in price, but not all were putting down 50%.  And had we taken an offer with about 20% down, there would be zero margin for under appraisal and we'd have to negotiate the selling price down closer to the appraised value - that'd be a loss of at least 20k on our part not to mention the ramifications of having to relist the property (I highly doubt we would get 900k+ in that scenario).

I was touched on this a bit with BTB on the forum, but the sales office pricing is what it is because they are who they are.  The builders can always charge whatever they please, as long as they still move the homes (they can wait it out for months, years if they want).  However, for us on the resale market, while appraisers will be somewhat swayed by the sales office, they still have a mind of their own as to what each particular property appraises at.  So that's why we originally wanted to list at $800k not because we were oblivious to the sales office pricing, but more that we were afraid of the results were we to under-appraise.  It actually happened twice in this case, but thanks to Martin's handling of the situation, the buyer did not come back.  So let this be a little eye opener to those that are trying to benchmark their homes against the builder's pricing - yea it looks good in theory, but don't expect to get the same results as the sales office.  That is a whole different ballgame, and you better have your agent ready because I'd be positive he/she will have to jump through hoops to get the same price IP, CalPac, Brookfield, NewHome, etc is able to charge.  Hope this clears up the pricing questions.

What about using the the builders' appraisers?  The builders still have to get their new homes appraised too.  Or maybe it's all a kickback scheme.

Or else you could use ps9 tactics with comps ready and a plate of cookies for the appraiser.

On a side note, did ps9 and SoCal run off together to Johns Creek?  It's been radio silence for months.

 

[lnc]

The builder's appraiser (the appraiser hired by the in-house lender) will always appraiser the new home exactly the same amount as the final closing price.

If the number is off significantly, that appraiser will never work in Irvine again. 

 

[upon9k]

What about using the the builders' appraisers?  The builders still have to get their new homes appraised too.  Or maybe it's all a kickback scheme.

Or else you could use ps9 tactics with comps ready and a plate of cookies for the appraiser.

On a side note, did ps9 and SoCal run off together to Johns Creek?  It's been radio silence for months.

I don't think you can choose your appraiser as the bank funding the buyer gets that right I believe.  Now that you mention it I am highly suspicious it's a kickback scheme because the builder appraisal was exactly what the builder said the selling price would be.  Like right on the dot and our price wasn't a perfectly round number. 

Pretty sure PS9 is still around I see him post on the Discord app still, but maybe not here on the forums anymore.

 

[Mety]

If I could get over 900k maybe I'd sell. My PS detached condo is over 2,000sqft and 4 bedrooms.

Of course you can! A 2049 sqft * $488 (MMs magic) translates to $1M dollar home.

Just make sure your house ain?t on a T-intersection or have 4s in the address.

Negative on both. Redfin estimates only $840k for some reason

You need to hire MM and sell that Hyundai now. Trade up to a BMW.  ;D

I've had Hyundai. Traded up to a BMW. Never looked back.
There is a lease option too..

 

[Liar Loan]

What about using the the builders' appraisers?  The builders still have to get their new homes appraised too.  Or maybe it's all a kickback scheme.

Or else you could use ps9 tactics with comps ready and a plate of cookies for the appraiser.

On a side note, did ps9 and SoCal run off together to Johns Creek?  It's been radio silence for months.

I don't think you can choose your appraiser as the bank funding the buyer gets that right I believe.  Now that you mention it I am highly suspicious it's a kickback scheme because the builder appraisal was exactly what the builder said the selling price would be.  Like right on the dot and our price wasn't a perfectly round number. 

Pretty sure PS9 is still around I see him post on the Discord app still, but maybe not here on the forums anymore.

The bank doesn't get to choose the appraiser either.  They contract with an Appraisal Management Company (AMC), who then hires the appraiser.

This approach creates a middleman to help prevent the appraisal fraud that was rampant during the Housing Bubble.  Dodd-Frank changed the old rules.

An unintended consequence is that appraisers are now a commodity and have no pricing power any more.  The AMC sets the fees and keeps half of it, hence revenues for appraisers are being squeezed.  To me, the logical outcome of this is that appraisers are incentivized to cut corners to save time, and the safest thing to do with new builds would be to match what the builder says the value is.  As long as the value is not challenged by the lender, there would be no consequences for doing so.

 

[sgip]

Yes, and no. There remains appraisal fraud in that similar to an earlier post - you don't hit value, you don't work in this town again. It's a very, very rare day when I don't see an appraisal hit value.

With Refinances, that's another story altogether. If an AMG appraiser is consistently "low" or if they get reviewed by management more than 2/3 times then they get bounced.

It's target hitting, which isn't appraising per se.

My .02c

 

[Liar Loan]

Yes, and no. There remains appraisal fraud in that similar to an earlier post - you don't hit value, you don't work in this town again. It's a very, very rare day when I don't see an appraisal hit value.

With Refinances, that's another story altogether. If an AMG appraiser is consistently "low" or if they get reviewed by management more than 2/3 times then they get bounced.

It's target hitting, which isn't appraising per se.

My .02c

True... and they are also facing competition from the machines.  When I started in this business, desktop valuations were considered to be so unreliable as to be laughable, but now more and more lenders are putting their trust in them, and the GSE's seem to be heading down this path as well.

It's times like these, when rates are increasing rapidly and margins are getting squeezed, that I think changes like this can take hold.  Why force the borrower to pay $450 for an appraisal on a new build?  Eliminating the appraisal fee could be a competitive marketing advantage in the very near future.

 

[sgip]

Last off topic post on this thread for me.

It's possible to close a purchase with a Conforming Conventional loan using a specific level of AVM data - no appraisal needed. That said, it's great if you live outside of SoCal, but with more non-Conforming financing here the ability to close without a true appraisal is very limited.

Even if you could close a Jumbo / non-Conforming loan with an AVM, that data process will likely be a $200-$300 charge from the funding lender, so in reality you're only saving $200-$300 from a standard appraisal. Some insurance carriers require an appraisal before issuing a policy, so one way or the other borrowers may still need to spend $$$ for the form.

My .02c

 

[usctrojancpa]

A couples of listing in Pavillion Park could use USCTrojancpa help. It?s been on the market for sometimes. The price seem to be in line with the recent comps but it?s been sitting. A quick search you will see what I am taliking about.

It?s hard to get people to switch agents. I tell everyone I know to use USC but most just go with someone they?ve used in the past or a relative/friend or the neighborhood go-to person.

Old habits die hard, most all of the listings that I do lose are to incumbent realtors.  Can't win them all. 

 

[Burn That Belly]

x

 

[usctrojancpa]

I received a couple questions via PM about why we was so surprised about the selling price that I thought I'd address.  Yes, some of you are correct in pointing out that the sales office is selling the base models around 880-890k based on exterior elevations and preplots.  We know full well about that, considering I have been collecting every single phase release pricing sheet from Phase 1 until 15 in a binder.  So the expectation would be 900k at least right?  Not so fast - because we actually did a refi just 3 months before closing in Nov 2017 where the appraised value was $785k (yes, bet some people didn't expect that one).  The lender was Bank of America by the way, not some no name lender using a fly-by-night appraiser so it carried a lot of weight on our minds.  Also, we lucked out because our buyers were putting 50% down so the appraisals don't matter, but our first appraisal came in 850k, second one (due to buyer changing lenders halfway through) came in at 880k.  You can see how if the 50% down buyer fell through, most of our backups were very close in price, but not all were putting down 50%.  And had we taken an offer with about 20% down, there would be zero margin for under appraisal and we'd have to negotiate the selling price down closer to the appraised value - that'd be a loss of at least 20k on our part not to mention the ramifications of having to relist the property (I highly doubt we would get 900k+ in that scenario).

I was touched on this a bit with BTB on the forum, but the sales office pricing is what it is because they are who they are.  The builders can always charge whatever they please, as long as they still move the homes (they can wait it out for months, years if they want).  However, for us on the resale market, while appraisers will be somewhat swayed by the sales office, they still have a mind of their own as to what each particular property appraises at.  So that's why we originally wanted to list at $800k not because we were oblivious to the sales office pricing, but more that we were afraid of the results were we to under-appraise.  It actually happened twice in this case, but thanks to Martin's handling of the situation, the buyer did not come back.  So let this be a little eye opener to those that are trying to benchmark their homes against the builder's pricing - yea it looks good in theory, but don't expect to get the same results as the sales office.  That is a whole different ballgame, and you better have your agent ready because I'd be positive he/she will have to jump through hoops to get the same price IP, CalPac, Brookfield, NewHome, etc is able to charge.  Hope this clears up the pricing questions.

What about using the the builders' appraisers?  The builders still have to get their new homes appraised too.  Or maybe it's all a kickback scheme.

Or else you could use ps9 tactics with comps ready and a plate of cookies for the appraiser.

On a side note, did ps9 and SoCal run off together to Johns Creek?  It's been radio silence for months.

I pulled the highest relevant price per SF closed comps in PS for the appraiser, gave him the latest pricing sheet at Silverleaf (even pointed him to the sales office), and gave him invoices that Upon9k provided me for all of the upgrades that he did after closing.  Even with all that, no dice on 2 appraisals to get to $905k.  Having 6 back-up offers (and my reminder of that to the buyer agent) probably kept the seller from asking to reduce the sales price down to the appraised amount. 

 

[usctrojancpa]

Not all PS homes created equal. I could have sworn deja vu when I saw this listing again and again. This home just can't seem to catch a break. 245 days sitting empty on the market.  smh  :-[
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/128-Yellow-Pne-92618/home/112721813

Needs your voodoo magic MM.

I can't fix a WTF listing price.  The longer it sits, the lower price the offers will come in at.  I can only work so much magic. 

 

[WTTCHMN]

I received a couple questions via PM about why we was so surprised about the selling price that I thought I'd address.  Yes, some of you are correct in pointing out that the sales office is selling the base models around 880-890k based on exterior elevations and preplots.  We know full well about that, considering I have been collecting every single phase release pricing sheet from Phase 1 until 15 in a binder.  So the expectation would be 900k at least right?  Not so fast - because we actually did a refi just 3 months before closing in Nov 2017 where the appraised value was $785k (yes, bet some people didn't expect that one).  The lender was Bank of America by the way, not some no name lender using a fly-by-night appraiser so it carried a lot of weight on our minds.  Also, we lucked out because our buyers were putting 50% down so the appraisals don't matter, but our first appraisal came in 850k, second one (due to buyer changing lenders halfway through) came in at 880k.  You can see how if the 50% down buyer fell through, most of our backups were very close in price, but not all were putting down 50%.  And had we taken an offer with about 20% down, there would be zero margin for under appraisal and we'd have to negotiate the selling price down closer to the appraised value - that'd be a loss of at least 20k on our part not to mention the ramifications of having to relist the property (I highly doubt we would get 900k+ in that scenario).

I was touched on this a bit with BTB on the forum, but the sales office pricing is what it is because they are who they are.  The builders can always charge whatever they please, as long as they still move the homes (they can wait it out for months, years if they want).  However, for us on the resale market, while appraisers will be somewhat swayed by the sales office, they still have a mind of their own as to what each particular property appraises at.  So that's why we originally wanted to list at $800k not because we were oblivious to the sales office pricing, but more that we were afraid of the results were we to under-appraise.  It actually happened twice in this case, but thanks to Martin's handling of the situation, the buyer did not come back.  So let this be a little eye opener to those that are trying to benchmark their homes against the builder's pricing - yea it looks good in theory, but don't expect to get the same results as the sales office.  That is a whole different ballgame, and you better have your agent ready because I'd be positive he/she will have to jump through hoops to get the same price IP, CalPac, Brookfield, NewHome, etc is able to charge.  Hope this clears up the pricing questions.

What about using the the builders' appraisers?  The builders still have to get their new homes appraised too.  Or maybe it's all a kickback scheme.

Or else you could use ps9 tactics with comps ready and a plate of cookies for the appraiser.

On a side note, did ps9 and SoCal run off together to Johns Creek?  It's been radio silence for months.

I pulled the highest relevant price per SF closed comps in PS for the appraiser, gave him the latest pricing sheet at Silverleaf (even pointed him to the sales office), and gave him invoices that Upon9k provided me for all of the upgrades that he did after closing.  Even with all that, no dice on 2 appraisals to get to $905k.

Should have given him a bundt cake and let him spin around in one of your Porsches.

 

[usctrojancpa]

I received a couple questions via PM about why we was so surprised about the selling price that I thought I'd address.  Yes, some of you are correct in pointing out that the sales office is selling the base models around 880-890k based on exterior elevations and preplots.  We know full well about that, considering I have been collecting every single phase release pricing sheet from Phase 1 until 15 in a binder.  So the expectation would be 900k at least right?  Not so fast - because we actually did a refi just 3 months before closing in Nov 2017 where the appraised value was $785k (yes, bet some people didn't expect that one).  The lender was Bank of America by the way, not some no name lender using a fly-by-night appraiser so it carried a lot of weight on our minds.  Also, we lucked out because our buyers were putting 50% down so the appraisals don't matter, but our first appraisal came in 850k, second one (due to buyer changing lenders halfway through) came in at 880k.  You can see how if the 50% down buyer fell through, most of our backups were very close in price, but not all were putting down 50%.  And had we taken an offer with about 20% down, there would be zero margin for under appraisal and we'd have to negotiate the selling price down closer to the appraised value - that'd be a loss of at least 20k on our part not to mention the ramifications of having to relist the property (I highly doubt we would get 900k+ in that scenario).

I was touched on this a bit with BTB on the forum, but the sales office pricing is what it is because they are who they are.  The builders can always charge whatever they please, as long as they still move the homes (they can wait it out for months, years if they want).  However, for us on the resale market, while appraisers will be somewhat swayed by the sales office, they still have a mind of their own as to what each particular property appraises at.  So that's why we originally wanted to list at $800k not because we were oblivious to the sales office pricing, but more that we were afraid of the results were we to under-appraise.  It actually happened twice in this case, but thanks to Martin's handling of the situation, the buyer did not come back.  So let this be a little eye opener to those that are trying to benchmark their homes against the builder's pricing - yea it looks good in theory, but don't expect to get the same results as the sales office.  That is a whole different ballgame, and you better have your agent ready because I'd be positive he/she will have to jump through hoops to get the same price IP, CalPac, Brookfield, NewHome, etc is able to charge.  Hope this clears up the pricing questions.

What about using the the builders' appraisers?  The builders still have to get their new homes appraised too.  Or maybe it's all a kickback scheme.

Or else you could use ps9 tactics with comps ready and a plate of cookies for the appraiser.

On a side note, did ps9 and SoCal run off together to Johns Creek?  It's been radio silence for months.

I pulled the highest relevant price per SF closed comps in PS for the appraiser, gave him the latest pricing sheet at Silverleaf (even pointed him to the sales office), and gave him invoices that Upon9k provided me for all of the upgrades that he did after closing.  Even with all that, no dice on 2 appraisals to get to $905k.

Should have given him a bundt cake and let him spin around in one of your Porsches.

If I would have thought that might have worked, I would have let him drive my car. haha