New house + solar panel
- Thread starter yaliu07
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Yes I priced out Sullivan and over the course of 20 years at 750 kW I would pay 10 cents per kW at their purchase price. But I will have to dish out the money upfront and hope I can get all 10k in federal tax credit back on my 2014 taxes. It's a gamble either way.
Yes with a lease I get roll over credits from Edison. That's the big selling point for Solar City. Winter I produce less and use less so I get roll over credits into summer months when I use more.
We'll wait until you see your July bill. Edison just increased their rates to 15 cents for Tier 1. I just saw my upcoming bill online and it's scary.
As for 25k added value that was just me quoting a previous post. I'll be happy if I get a 10k added value to the house, which is what Solar City quoted me if I sell my house. Most people wouldn't mind an added 10k rolled into a 30 year mortgage with a $2/month Edison bill.
Very good points and I ran the math. I would totally purchase the system and pay myself 10 cents per kW over the course of 20 years of usage. But then I'm responsible for all liabilities with the system. Should something happen to my roof Solar City offers a $2 million insurance policy to fix and repair. All that for 15 cents per kW and $0 upfront cost.
It's a very juicy deal.
ZL keeps speculating based on Edison rate hikes but until I see some historical numbers, it still doesn't pencil out to me.
I think solar sales people put that boogie man in your head telling you rates will only go up and so it's better if you do solar now but in the end, if you're in the margin, where most of us who don't have huge houses and pools are, the savings will be negligible.
Consider this, if everyone goes solar, don't you think Edison will want to stay competitive?
I don't know the annual savings yet, I'm just going month to month. So here's the math, all based on approximations:
Neighbors currently at $50/ month uses 371 kW, they use no AC
Neighbors who use a little AC at $100/month uses 571 kW.
Neighbors who use 2-4 hours of AC a day is around $150/month uses 737 kW. This is assuming they don't have my electrical issues as previously stated.
I'm basing off other residents I've spoken with in my hood because we have similar houses and we are all 3 bedrooms from same builder.
Anyone using less than 600 kW will not benefit from solar because it will take them forever to recoup if they purchase. If they lease the leasing companies only install at a minimum output value.
The break even point is around 700 kW per month for summer.
With a Solar City rates of 15 cents per kW, 0.15 x 700 = $105/month.
0.15 x 737 = $110.55
Savings would be $150 - $110 = $40/month.
This is all in theory and based on the June 2014 rate. July 2014 the difference would be $45/month.
Is it significant, no. It's not worth it if I purchase to save $45/month.
======
Now assume if I cool my house to a nice 76 degrees during the summer, I may be at 1000 kW, which Edison charges $250 in June 2014, $280 in July 2014.
Solar City can only give me a 761 kW production at $114, the remaining 239 kW I purchase at 0.15 from Edison at $36.
$114 + $36 = $150 new electric bill with Solar City + Edison
Compare that to $280 if I didn't have solar ... Well that would be a $130 savings in the summer months.
Now I'm basing off Solar City rates at 0.15. If I went with Sullivan and upfronted a car payment, I would save more.
Again to speak in annual savings I don't know. Over the course of 20 years the sale people said I will save $40k. Sounds nice not sure if that's all true.
Lol. I like how the nighthawk has evolved into a culprit.
I purchased the Solar City 14 panel system from Brookfield Homes which is 3.43 KW DC (annual production of 5700 KWh) for $5,399. That averages 475kW per month. My current average usage is 357 kW per month and I spend ~$80/month. Granted the new house is bigger and will likely use more energy, but it seemed to make sense that I could save $100/month and it would pay off in no time. Now I wonder if I missed something?
I've done all that I can to reduce my carbon footprint. That's why I think I'm destined to use 1000 kW to keep a 2000 sq feet house with dual thermostat control to just keep the downstairs at 76 degrees.
I purchased all the Belkin conserve outlets to install on pretty much every outlet including the computers, I only use LED or CFG lights, and unplugged even the microwave.
The only things left running in my house is that Nighthawk, 2 fridges, stove, and cell phone charger.
I'm thinking of pulling the plug on my house number at this point.
I just don't know how you do it running a 3000 sq feet home at less energy than me.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I think what gets me is it's not an overly big house (no vaulted ceilings) to cool... more months you will not be using AC, you don't have a pool... so I just don't think when you average out your elec bill over a year's time, it will be that much more than whatever you have to pay for your lease rate (or however they are charging you).
My friend has solar, but he has a 4000+sft house, a gigantic pool and his bill was something like $300-400 a month before the panels.
And again, I've had a ~2000sft house for years (even when we had a nanny) and the bill just wasn't high enough.
As for adding value to your home... that's sales malarky. Someone will not put a $25k premium on a home with solar on resale... they just don't take things like that into account during their valuation (just like a pool).
My friend has solar, but he has a 4000+sft house, a gigantic pool and his bill was something like $300-400 a month before the panels.
And again, I've had a ~2000sft house for years (even when we had a nanny) and the bill just wasn't high enough.
As for adding value to your home... that's sales malarky. Someone will not put a $25k premium on a home with solar on resale... they just don't take things like that into account during their valuation (just like a pool).
SubSolar
Active member
Zerolot, I'm thinking if buying the system out right. Would the Sullivan be a better deal than the SolarCity at your house if you look at the purchase prices and electricity generated? Seems like most people that purchase instead of leasing say the Sullivan Sunpowers are tonight to beat.
ZeroLot
New member
SubSolar said:
Yes I priced out Sullivan and over the course of 20 years at 750 kW I would pay 10 cents per kW at their purchase price. But I will have to dish out the money upfront and hope I can get all 10k in federal tax credit back on my 2014 taxes. It's a gamble either way.
eyephone said:
Yes with a lease I get roll over credits from Edison. That's the big selling point for Solar City. Winter I produce less and use less so I get roll over credits into summer months when I use more.
irvinehomeowner said:
We'll wait until you see your July bill. Edison just increased their rates to 15 cents for Tier 1. I just saw my upcoming bill online and it's scary.
As for 25k added value that was just me quoting a previous post. I'll be happy if I get a 10k added value to the house, which is what Solar City quoted me if I sell my house. Most people wouldn't mind an added 10k rolled into a 30 year mortgage with a $2/month Edison bill.
WTTCMN said:
Very good points and I ran the math. I would totally purchase the system and pay myself 10 cents per kW over the course of 20 years of usage. But then I'm responsible for all liabilities with the system. Should something happen to my roof Solar City offers a $2 million insurance policy to fix and repair. All that for 15 cents per kW and $0 upfront cost.
It's a very juicy deal.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
This.qwerty said:
ZL keeps speculating based on Edison rate hikes but until I see some historical numbers, it still doesn't pencil out to me.
I think solar sales people put that boogie man in your head telling you rates will only go up and so it's better if you do solar now but in the end, if you're in the margin, where most of us who don't have huge houses and pools are, the savings will be negligible.
Consider this, if everyone goes solar, don't you think Edison will want to stay competitive?
Must read article regarding leased solar panels by solar city.
http://m.watchdog.org/?url=http://watchdog.org/130098/solarcity-horror-stories/#2898
http://m.watchdog.org/?url=http://watchdog.org/130098/solarcity-horror-stories/#2898
Must read article regarding new technology solar panels + batteries. Utilities companies are dragging their feet to stop the pilot program. This can revolutionize the solar industry, and cut the utilities out.
http://m.sfgate.com/business/article/SolarCity-accuses-utilities-of-slowing-5325791.php
http://m.sfgate.com/business/article/SolarCity-accuses-utilities-of-slowing-5325791.php
ZeroLot
New member
qwerty said:
I don't know the annual savings yet, I'm just going month to month. So here's the math, all based on approximations:
Neighbors currently at $50/ month uses 371 kW, they use no AC
Neighbors who use a little AC at $100/month uses 571 kW.
Neighbors who use 2-4 hours of AC a day is around $150/month uses 737 kW. This is assuming they don't have my electrical issues as previously stated.
I'm basing off other residents I've spoken with in my hood because we have similar houses and we are all 3 bedrooms from same builder.
Anyone using less than 600 kW will not benefit from solar because it will take them forever to recoup if they purchase. If they lease the leasing companies only install at a minimum output value.
The break even point is around 700 kW per month for summer.
With a Solar City rates of 15 cents per kW, 0.15 x 700 = $105/month.
0.15 x 737 = $110.55
Savings would be $150 - $110 = $40/month.
This is all in theory and based on the June 2014 rate. July 2014 the difference would be $45/month.
Is it significant, no. It's not worth it if I purchase to save $45/month.
======
Now assume if I cool my house to a nice 76 degrees during the summer, I may be at 1000 kW, which Edison charges $250 in June 2014, $280 in July 2014.
Solar City can only give me a 761 kW production at $114, the remaining 239 kW I purchase at 0.15 from Edison at $36.
$114 + $36 = $150 new electric bill with Solar City + Edison
Compare that to $280 if I didn't have solar ... Well that would be a $130 savings in the summer months.
Now I'm basing off Solar City rates at 0.15. If I went with Sullivan and upfronted a car payment, I would save more.
Again to speak in annual savings I don't know. Over the course of 20 years the sale people said I will save $40k. Sounds nice not sure if that's all true.
ZeroLot
New member
Anyhow I haven't signed anything yet. It is true a Solar City wants to do automatic deductions from my checking account.
Solar City gets terrible reviews on Yelp.
I know their install will not be as quality or detailed oriented as Sullivan with their Sunpower Solar Panels.
Bottom line, if I can have Sullivan install and roll the cost into a 30 year mortgage, it is so worth it to get solar because my house faces a good direction with plenty of roof space to install the panels.
Solar City gets terrible reviews on Yelp.
I know their install will not be as quality or detailed oriented as Sullivan with their Sunpower Solar Panels.
Bottom line, if I can have Sullivan install and roll the cost into a 30 year mortgage, it is so worth it to get solar because my house faces a good direction with plenty of roof space to install the panels.
qwerty
Well-known member
My bill last month was 219 and my projected bill is 240. 280 sounds high given my place is 3000 and the AC is set at 76. Yeah kind of tricky what the actual savings will be. But sounds like your savings with a lease may be in 500-800 a year, take that over the average ownership period of 7 years and your looking at savings of 3,500 to 5,600. Doesn't seem worth it to risk a potential horror story like the ones in that link plus the potential resale issues of having to transfer the lease.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
It seems to me that it would be more prudent to figure out how to reduce your kW footprint than to sign up for solar just so that you can eat up 1000+kW per month.
I just looked at my bill and July was 697kW @ $150 where 91kW was Tier 4 at $0.33 per kW and 212Kw was Tier 3 at $0.30 per KW. Had my foot print been at about 540kW like the previous month, I would have been at $100. And remember, in non-summer months, Edison charges less for electricity and if usage is also less, you're probably going to be in the $50-$80 range. So over the course of a year, your non-solar bill could be less than or on par with the solar lease rate... not that much more.
If you use less than 761kW does Solar City give you credit? That's the advantage that ownership has (I believe).
On my bill, the average rate as of Apr 2014 is 16.3 cents with a proposed rate increase to 16.7 cents. That's only 1.7 cents difference between Solar City's lease rate... and say you are on the high side of 800kW for the entire year... that's only $15 per month... like q says... not significant enough for a 1%er or a 99%er compared with the additional maintenance hassle.
Not sure if this is your first or second house... but do you think this is your last house? If not, I probably wouldn't even bother at this point in your life. Wait until your kids are teenagers and they really start using the electronics... by then you will have moved to another house (and then you roll solar into the mortgage) or solar will be more inexpensive.
Funny... this reminds me of back in the IHB days where people would argue about buying vs renting... be bearish on solar!!!
I just looked at my bill and July was 697kW @ $150 where 91kW was Tier 4 at $0.33 per kW and 212Kw was Tier 3 at $0.30 per KW. Had my foot print been at about 540kW like the previous month, I would have been at $100. And remember, in non-summer months, Edison charges less for electricity and if usage is also less, you're probably going to be in the $50-$80 range. So over the course of a year, your non-solar bill could be less than or on par with the solar lease rate... not that much more.
If you use less than 761kW does Solar City give you credit? That's the advantage that ownership has (I believe).
On my bill, the average rate as of Apr 2014 is 16.3 cents with a proposed rate increase to 16.7 cents. That's only 1.7 cents difference between Solar City's lease rate... and say you are on the high side of 800kW for the entire year... that's only $15 per month... like q says... not significant enough for a 1%er or a 99%er compared with the additional maintenance hassle.
Not sure if this is your first or second house... but do you think this is your last house? If not, I probably wouldn't even bother at this point in your life. Wait until your kids are teenagers and they really start using the electronics... by then you will have moved to another house (and then you roll solar into the mortgage) or solar will be more inexpensive.
Funny... this reminds me of back in the IHB days where people would argue about buying vs renting... be bearish on solar!!!
J
jmoney74
Guest
WTTCMN said:
Lol. I like how the nighthawk has evolved into a culprit.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
This is our third July with solar.
AC set to 75 degrees 24 hours a day
Our bill was $1.77 for distribution.
Net generation credit that will net out still slightly positive through year end
My power consumption is costing me 10 cents a KwH
Of course you already paid 25 cents/kWh for the next decade whether I use them or even produce them
AC set to 75 degrees 24 hours a day
Our bill was $1.77 for distribution.
Net generation credit that will net out still slightly positive through year end
My power consumption is costing me 10 cents a KwH
Of course you already paid 25 cents/kWh for the next decade whether I use them or even produce them
Irvineshopper
New member
SubSolar said:
I purchased the Solar City 14 panel system from Brookfield Homes which is 3.43 KW DC (annual production of 5700 KWh) for $5,399. That averages 475kW per month. My current average usage is 357 kW per month and I spend ~$80/month. Granted the new house is bigger and will likely use more energy, but it seemed to make sense that I could save $100/month and it would pay off in no time. Now I wonder if I missed something?
ZeroLot
New member
irvinehomeowner said:
I've done all that I can to reduce my carbon footprint. That's why I think I'm destined to use 1000 kW to keep a 2000 sq feet house with dual thermostat control to just keep the downstairs at 76 degrees.
I purchased all the Belkin conserve outlets to install on pretty much every outlet including the computers, I only use LED or CFG lights, and unplugged even the microwave.
The only things left running in my house is that Nighthawk, 2 fridges, stove, and cell phone charger.
I'm thinking of pulling the plug on my house number at this point.
I just don't know how you do it running a 3000 sq feet home at less energy than me.