usctrojancpa
Well-known member
For me, when you have 4,000sf+ the home should have 5 bedrooms.
New communities in Portola Springs
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For me, when you have 4,000sf+ the home should have 5 bedrooms.
Not having a downstairs bedroom and full bathroom with a 4000sf is just wrong on many levels.
We were debating between Cielo Plan 1 and Plan 3. My wife likes Plan 1's kitchen more, and according to IP's brochure, only Plan 1 will have stacked cabinets in the kitchen. That is something extremely important to my wife. Another "bad" thing about Plan 3 is that front door goes straight to sliding door through a hallway, which is bad for feng shui. There are two other issues to consider: (1) Plan 3 costs about $200k more than Plan 1, and (2) Plan 3 is the most popular floorplan, so it's also more difficult to get.
Right now, our goal is Plan 1, but things could change.
Meadows is a horrible location IMO. Hills vs bottom of Baker Ranch and surrounded by 4 busy streets in what I deem a strange location for homes. What do people say about real estate, location, location, location.
And it's not just Irvine vs. Lake Forest. I've talked about this before and some people were saying how I was bad mouthing Lake Forest, but the location for The Meadows is very undesirable because the houses are like in a crater compared to the surrounding streets.
Don't doubt the power of the wok. It did wonders for Laguna Altura.
The Meadows is a pit, not a wok.
It’s just depressing, especially given the delta in price.
Also, I think Ravello 3 is superior to all the Evergreen models, except for the exterior. The same goes for Cielo 3. We visited Evergreen models a couple months ago. We were extremely impressed with the exterior. They are by far the best we've seen, but we weren't that impressed with the inside. My wife was disappointed because she was really looking forward to seeing a TB floorplan. I mean, it they look more luxurious (materials used) than IP homes, but somehow, the floorplans just didn't look as good as the IP homes. For instance, the floating stairs were really nice, but not practical (losing store room) and not efficiently placed.
Again, that's just my opinion on the floorplan comparison.
However, objectively speaking, location is why there's such a difference in price.
I want to say terrain also plays a role, but that's subjective. I may want to live in a quiet secluded neighborhood higher up on a hill, but others may prefer convenience, even though it's in an industrial/commercial area.
I know that IP want to finish up Hillside and Bluffs. I talked to Bluffs sales lady, and she said that IP planned to finish up releasing all the homes by March. She said that she would probably stay at Bluffs until end of 2023, pretty much to follow up on closing all the homes (that's if they actually will be able to sell them since they're not lowering prices).
I think IP will probably pause construction on Fiore, Azul, and Cielo. I'm planning to get the price sheet for Cielo in a couple of weeks. Let see if anything changes from previous one I get. Not sure what they will do with Arbor and Olivewood (formerly Marea and Forza) in terms of grand opening.
As for CalPac, I don't think they can afford to pause construction since they had to pay for the land, so you may be in luck if you're waiting for them to lower prices. Have you visited CalPac's sales office to find out what they're planning to do?
1) As far as being surrounded by 4 streets
Bake Parkway to the west, yes, a high speed 4 lane street
Rancho Parkway to the north, a low speed 4 lane street
Serrano Creek, not a street
A tech industrial park, not a street
Consider Stonegate. Surrounded by Portola Parkway, Jeffrey Road, Irvine Blvd, Sand Canyon. Beautiful highly desired community surrounded by 4 roads. It's possible to have a desirable community surrounded by 4 roads. Meadows only has 2.
2) As far as being in a pit or crater, yes, 3 sides for sure. The industrial park is arguably on even ground, though the meadows is clearly lower than most of it's surroundings. But you do get some beautiful views of saddleback mountain and plenty of tree coverage along serrano creek.
3) As far as the models, you all know this already, but every house sold by TB or IP starts as cheap carpet/tile, drywall, nearly cardboard doors, etc everywhere. The impressiveness of the model finishes, furniture, lot, and landscaping aren't a reflection of what you get for the base price. You could argue comparing model to model is the builder's best foot forward, though there's some subjectivity in interior/exterior design.
4) Irvine vs Lake Forest, very different cities. If you don't mind paying an extra few K of MR per year (in some cases indefinitely) to fund newly constructed schools, a demographic tilted heavily towards mainland Chinese (not saying this is a bad thing, it's just reality), increasing local traffic congestion that will only get worse as PS, OH 4, and GP are built out, and paying an extra $100-$200/sqft for a house, Irvine is a clear winner. Everyone has a limited amount of resources to allocate to their various priorities. Some people find the Irvine premium worth it, others not.
5) Floor plans. It's a trade off. TB's evergreens have some weaknesses, like the small pantries or lack of general storage closet. They also have some advantages, like the primary bath being more like a room than a hallway, two story entry ways, and plenty of hang out room (large great room + flex room + loft). Just depends what's important to the buyer.
The Meadows is clearly not an IP product. IP products clearly have some very real advantages over The Meadows. The Meadows isn't priced like an IP product though. And when it really comes down to it, everything normalizes. A lot of things that are fun to think make a big difference in quality of life after our basic needs are met just end up being forgotten in place of what is really meaningful, like connections with friends and loved ones, shared experiences, sense of purpose, etc.
3) Being known as a luxury home builder, I do believe that TB does use materials that are better than IP. I do prefer the Wolf appliances at IP over the Jenn-Air appliances at TB, though. And both my wife and I do prefer the exterior look of TB over IP. IP's exterior is mainly Mediterranean/early California style (a little bit old fashion) while TB's exterior is more modern style. We also liked the exterior at most the communities at GP.
5) Yes, floorplans are pretty much personal preference in terms of what you need. My wife loves big pantries and the storage closet. Having a huge primary bath isn't important to her, although it can't be too small, because it really is just a waste of space. Big primary shower space, on the other hand, is more important. An additional flex room is not needed for us since there's already a loft. I understand bigger families will find it useful, but not for us, with just one adult kid now. That is why we prefer IP's floorplan over TB's floorplan. Again, just personal preference.
Again, I'm not crapping on The Meadows. I only have two complaints about it. The development is in a pit and it's in a commercial area, both of which are no go for us.
For me, when you have 4,000sf+ the home should have 5 bedrooms.
potsticker
Active member
From a modern floor plan perspective, I really like the Ravello/Cielo Plan 3. It's everything that the cookie-cutter IP floor plans have with the addition of a Den downstairs. That Den is perfect for a small office, kids' playroom, or social area. It's probably my next home as my wife and I both work from home and we have young children. Only question is...do we buy Cielo? Or do we get Ravello in the Groves or OHV4 (speculating it'll be built there).
The Motor Court Company
Well-known member
I did see a 4000 sqft house, 4 bedrooms, but no full bath and only a den downstairs..
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
Not having a downstairs bedroom and full bathroom with a 4000sf is just wrong on many levels.
CalBears96
Well-known member
I agree that from the practical point of view, Ravello/Cielo Plan 3 is great.
We were debating between Cielo Plan 1 and Plan 3. My wife likes Plan 1's kitchen more, and according to IP's brochure, only Plan 1 will have stacked cabinets in the kitchen. That is something extremely important to my wife. Another "bad" thing about Plan 3 is that front door goes straight to sliding door through a hallway, which is bad for feng shui. There are two other issues to consider: (1) Plan 3 costs about $200k more than Plan 1, and (2) Plan 3 is the most popular floorplan, so it's also more difficult to get.
Right now, our goal is Plan 1, but things could change.
ThirtySomethingWEquity
Active member
I get the appeal of Irvine, but if I was buying plan 3 of Ravello for what, 3M and someone took me to the Evergreen models in The Meadows i’d cry.
For substantially less you get *such* a nicer house, at least from how the models feel. Very similar floorplan but the much more expensive one feels like a cheap imitation.
For substantially less you get *such* a nicer house, at least from how the models feel. Very similar floorplan but the much more expensive one feels like a cheap imitation.
Meadows is a horrible location IMO. Hills vs bottom of Baker Ranch and surrounded by 4 busy streets in what I deem a strange location for homes. What do people say about real estate, location, location, location.
CalBears96
Well-known member
Evergreen models look great on the outside, but I feel that inside, it's not as good as Ravello.
And it's not just Irvine vs. Lake Forest. I've talked about this before and some people were saying how I was bad mouthing Lake Forest, but the location for The Meadows is very undesirable because the houses are like in a crater compared to the surrounding streets.
iacrenter
Well-known member
Don't doubt the power of the wok. It did wonders for Laguna Altura.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Laguna Woktura was an elevated, semi "secluded" location.
The Meadows is a pit, not a wok.
The Venn on the buyer pool for these two products is, I’m guessing, extremely small.
Mawesome Sauce
Member
Can anyone confirm if all new building in portola springs has stopped? I saw hillside workers finishing up their last units, but I haven’t seen any activity in the newer Fiore or Lapis. Hoping Cal Pacific keeps building or lowers prices.
ThirtySomethingWEquity
Active member
I’m not saying one should *buy* Evergreen over someplace in Irvine, i’m just saying it’s sad how crappy the model 3 ravello feels compared to evergreen’s models.
It’s just depressing, especially given the delta in price.
CalBears96
Well-known member
Again, the delta in price is due to location. You would get depressed in a hurry if you were to live in Evergreen, and that's the point.
Also, I think Ravello 3 is superior to all the Evergreen models, except for the exterior. The same goes for Cielo 3. We visited Evergreen models a couple months ago. We were extremely impressed with the exterior. They are by far the best we've seen, but we weren't that impressed with the inside. My wife was disappointed because she was really looking forward to seeing a TB floorplan. I mean, it they look more luxurious (materials used) than IP homes, but somehow, the floorplans just didn't look as good as the IP homes. For instance, the floating stairs were really nice, but not practical (losing store room) and not efficiently placed.
Again, that's just my opinion on the floorplan comparison.
However, objectively speaking, location is why there's such a difference in price.
I want to say terrain also plays a role, but that's subjective. I may want to live in a quiet secluded neighborhood higher up on a hill, but others may prefer convenience, even though it's in an industrial/commercial area.
CalBears96
Well-known member
I can't say that it has completely stopped, but I know that it has slowed down quite a bit.
I know that IP want to finish up Hillside and Bluffs. I talked to Bluffs sales lady, and she said that IP planned to finish up releasing all the homes by March. She said that she would probably stay at Bluffs until end of 2023, pretty much to follow up on closing all the homes (that's if they actually will be able to sell them since they're not lowering prices).
I think IP will probably pause construction on Fiore, Azul, and Cielo. I'm planning to get the price sheet for Cielo in a couple of weeks. Let see if anything changes from previous one I get. Not sure what they will do with Arbor and Olivewood (formerly Marea and Forza) in terms of grand opening.
As for CalPac, I don't think they can afford to pause construction since they had to pay for the land, so you may be in luck if you're waiting for them to lower prices. Have you visited CalPac's sales office to find out what they're planning to do?
someguy
Active member
Aww poor Meadows getting crapped on in the PS thread. Let's be fair though
1) As far as being surrounded by 4 streets
Bake Parkway to the west, yes, a high speed 4 lane street
Rancho Parkway to the north, a low speed 4 lane street
Serrano Creek, not a street
A tech industrial park, not a street
Consider Stonegate. Surrounded by Portola Parkway, Jeffrey Road, Irvine Blvd, Sand Canyon. Beautiful highly desired community surrounded by 4 roads. It's possible to have a desirable community surrounded by 4 roads. Meadows only has 2.
2) As far as being in a pit or crater, yes, 3 sides for sure. The industrial park is arguably on even ground, though the meadows is clearly lower than most of it's surroundings. But you do get some beautiful views of saddleback mountain and plenty of tree coverage along serrano creek.
3) As far as the models, you all know this already, but every house sold by TB or IP starts as cheap carpet/tile, drywall, nearly cardboard doors, etc everywhere. The impressiveness of the model finishes, furniture, lot, and landscaping aren't a reflection of what you get for the base price. You could argue comparing model to model is the builder's best foot forward, though there's some subjectivity in interior/exterior design.
4) Irvine vs Lake Forest, very different cities. If you don't mind paying an extra few K of MR per year (in some cases indefinitely) to fund newly constructed schools, a demographic tilted heavily towards mainland Chinese (not saying this is a bad thing, it's just reality), increasing local traffic congestion that will only get worse as PS, OH 4, and GP are built out, and paying an extra $100-$200/sqft for a house, Irvine is a clear winner. Everyone has a limited amount of resources to allocate to their various priorities. Some people find the Irvine premium worth it, others not.
5) Floor plans. It's a trade off. TB's evergreens have some weaknesses, like the small pantries or lack of general storage closet. They also have some advantages, like the primary bath being more like a room than a hallway, two story entry ways, and plenty of hang out room (large great room + flex room + loft). Just depends what's important to the buyer.
The Meadows is clearly not an IP product. IP products clearly have some very real advantages over The Meadows. The Meadows isn't priced like an IP product though. And when it really comes down to it, everything normalizes. A lot of things that are fun to think make a big difference in quality of life after our basic needs are met just end up being forgotten in place of what is really meaningful, like connections with friends and loved ones, shared experiences, sense of purpose, etc.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
What is the delta in comparable models between Lake Forest and Irvine? Seems like The Meadows still has a high price tag despite no MRs.
The money you spend in The Meadows might get you more just up the hill in Foothill Ranch if you want to compare general area to general area. Yes, there is something about buying new, but there is also 3CWGs and bigger lots in dem dar hills.
The money you spend in The Meadows might get you more just up the hill in Foothill Ranch if you want to compare general area to general area. Yes, there is something about buying new, but there is also 3CWGs and bigger lots in dem dar hills.
CalBears96
Well-known member
2) Being a pit on one side is bad enough, but on 3 sides would be very bad. I remember when we first saw the site. We exited Lake Forest Dr. from 241 and then turned into Rancho Pkwy and when I saw the construction site, I was turned off right away. Maybe it will be different when the community is built out, but the first impression was important to me.
3) Being known as a luxury home builder, I do believe that TB does use materials that are better than IP. I do prefer the Wolf appliances at IP over the Jenn-Air appliances at TB, though. And both my wife and I do prefer the exterior look of TB over IP. IP's exterior is mainly Mediterranean/early California style (a little bit old fashion) while TB's exterior is more modern style. We also liked the exterior at most the communities at GP.
5) Yes, floorplans are pretty much personal preference in terms of what you need. My wife loves big pantries and the storage closet. Having a huge primary bath isn't important to her, although it can't be too small, because it really is just a waste of space. Big primary shower space, on the other hand, is more important. An additional flex room is not needed for us since there's already a loft. I understand bigger families will find it useful, but not for us, with just one adult kid now. That is why we prefer IP's floorplan over TB's floorplan. Again, just personal preference.
Again, I'm not crapping on The Meadows. I only have two complaints about it. The development is in a pit and it's in a commercial area, both of which are no go for us.
CalBears96
Well-known member
My sister bought The Oaks in Foothill Ranch. New home with 3CWG. 4100 sq. ft. home for less than $1.6M. This was back in Oct, 2021, though, just two months before I bought Bluffs 2, for about the same price for a 2600 sq. ft. detached condo.What is the delta in comparable models between Lake Forest and Irvine? Seems like The Meadows still has a high price tag despite no MRs.
The money you spend in The Meadows might get you more just up the hill in Foothill Ranch if you want to compare general area to general area. Yes, there is something about buying new, but there is also 3CWGs and bigger lots in dem dar hills.
someguy
Active member
For #3, at these price points both TB and IP use the same builder grade materials, same general trade groups for labor, and aim to build to code and pass inspection with minimal costs. The only difference in terms of build quality is perception as a result of marketing/branding.