NBA 2015-2016
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It's called choking. This is game 7 of the finals. Tons of pressure. Golden state hadn't faced this kind of pressure in the last two years. They were up 3-1, couldn't close out at home in game 7, they probably thought they would blow out the cavs and when that didn't happen the choking started. If the roles were reversed lebron would have been called the greatest choker of all time.
Fail, but Bron's a top-5 all-time player.
There is no conspiracy. If Kyrie misses that 3, the Warriors probably end-up winning. Steph was forcing jacked 3s the whole second half, but that's his game. They weren't falling. It's just bad luck magnified by bad decision making. He should have been taking the ball into the paint and making something happen, because that's what the D was giving him. Oh well.
Until last year, Kershaw had some incredibly bad luck in the postseason.
Can't say this one was the same either. Draymond non suspension against thunder and suspension with Cavs was true NBA style. End of the day, game 7 was evenly called and the Cavs took advantage.
Physically yes. As an athlete, no NBA player has ever matched LBJ. I think his flaws are in his personality. He's a much more likable and all around better person than MJ, but he's not what we want from our star athletes.
Being wishy-washy about where he plays, calling out teammates but not calling out teammates (FIT-OUT, FIT-IN incident), unfollowing the team on Twitter, and all sorts of other social media nonsense. Even yesterday, wearing that "Ultimate Warrior" was an example of more passive-aggressiveness.
MJ was different in that he would just punch his teammate and straight up embarrass someone he had a minor grudge.
Obviously Lebron is simply a much nicer person - probably too nice hence his passive-aggressiveness. But we just don't want that in our sports heroes unfortunately. I guess it says more about society than it does about Lebron.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Yeah... as much as people say Jordan and Kobe didn't chase their rings, being able to go to 6 straight championships with 2 different teams and win 3 of those is impressive. LBJ still took the easier post-season path being in the less dominant conference but he still had to beat the best teams out of the West.
aquabliss
Well-known member
Did anyone else think this game looked fixed? Golden State at home in Game 7 of the Finals and they really looked like they were giving this thing away the last few minutes of the game.
They typically operate so well under pressure and they looked unorganized and out of sorts at the very end. Ya ya someone will say Cleveland defense yadda yadda but either GS had amazingly poor luck or somebody is on the payroll.
They typically operate so well under pressure and they looked unorganized and out of sorts at the very end. Ya ya someone will say Cleveland defense yadda yadda but either GS had amazingly poor luck or somebody is on the payroll.
qwerty
Well-known member
aquabliss said:
It's called choking. This is game 7 of the finals. Tons of pressure. Golden state hadn't faced this kind of pressure in the last two years. They were up 3-1, couldn't close out at home in game 7, they probably thought they would blow out the cavs and when that didn't happen the choking started. If the roles were reversed lebron would have been called the greatest choker of all time.
Perspective
Well-known member
qwerty said:
Fail, but Bron's a top-5 all-time player.
Perspective
Well-known member
aquabliss said:
There is no conspiracy. If Kyrie misses that 3, the Warriors probably end-up winning. Steph was forcing jacked 3s the whole second half, but that's his game. They weren't falling. It's just bad luck magnified by bad decision making. He should have been taking the ball into the paint and making something happen, because that's what the D was giving him. Oh well.
Until last year, Kershaw had some incredibly bad luck in the postseason.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
It's hard for me to say LBJ > Jordan because it's different eras, rules, styles, players... but the conversation on who is better now, Curry or LBJ has to lean back towards LBJ.
I felt LBJ was too tentative in this game compared to Game 6 where he was taking to the Warriors. I think part of the reason he kept passing out or missing his shots in Game 7 was exhaustion... every time he went to the bench he looked gassed -- but that hustle chase-down block shows how much he wanted it.
I don't really feel too bad for the Warriors, they got their asterisk win last season, but everyone is going to comment on how they went 73-9 but couldn't get it done in the post-season. And it does show they are not invincible since OKC went up 3-1 on them and now the Cavs came back 3-1 to beat them.
I felt LBJ was too tentative in this game compared to Game 6 where he was taking to the Warriors. I think part of the reason he kept passing out or missing his shots in Game 7 was exhaustion... every time he went to the bench he looked gassed -- but that hustle chase-down block shows how much he wanted it.
I don't really feel too bad for the Warriors, they got their asterisk win last season, but everyone is going to comment on how they went 73-9 but couldn't get it done in the post-season. And it does show they are not invincible since OKC went up 3-1 on them and now the Cavs came back 3-1 to beat them.
J
jmoney74
Guest
irvinehomeowner said:
Can't say this one was the same either. Draymond non suspension against thunder and suspension with Cavs was true NBA style. End of the day, game 7 was evenly called and the Cavs took advantage.
What is interesting is that LBJ's legacy is skewed by the lumpiness of his career arc. Gets to the Finals too early in his career and gets swept. Leaves hometown, promises countless championships, and loses in Finals. Finally wins 2 so looks like destiny is coming to fruition but nope, loses again. Goes home, which seems like win for his legacy, but loses in the Finals yet again. Now he gets that elusive hometown championship and we're talking about his greatness.
So the question is (which the Mason and Ireland radio show had been debating during the Finals): would you rather win 3 titles in 3 tries, or 2 titles in 7 tries?
MJ's prime was almost a perfectly written story. He entered the NBA as a star, got bullied and beat down by his opponents. Finally he reaches the pinnacle - 3 times to boot, which hadn't been done in decades. Leaves briefly, then comes back and the team is even better. Another 3-peat. Almost a perfect career arc. If only he stayed retired the 2nd time, but at least in his prime, his record was flawless. MJ 6 Finals, 6 Championships, 6 Finals MVPs. Hard to match that. Sure he had bad games, but there was never narrative about whether MJ would show up.
So the question is (which the Mason and Ireland radio show had been debating during the Finals): would you rather win 3 titles in 3 tries, or 2 titles in 7 tries?
MJ's prime was almost a perfectly written story. He entered the NBA as a star, got bullied and beat down by his opponents. Finally he reaches the pinnacle - 3 times to boot, which hadn't been done in decades. Leaves briefly, then comes back and the team is even better. Another 3-peat. Almost a perfect career arc. If only he stayed retired the 2nd time, but at least in his prime, his record was flawless. MJ 6 Finals, 6 Championships, 6 Finals MVPs. Hard to match that. Sure he had bad games, but there was never narrative about whether MJ would show up.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Heh... you can spin LBJ's legacy the other way... he can now go where he wants and at least get to the show the 1st year and then win the trophy the 2nd year.
Cowherd did a career comparison to Jordan because people only focus on what they want to but by age 31, Jordan had only been to the Finals 3 times, granted he won all 3 but compare that to LBJ who by age 31 has been to the Finals 7 times and has won the trophy 3 times with 2 entirely different teams. Leading up to that first championship, Jordan's postseason record wasn't very good compared to LBJ's and his first 7 years in Cleveland, there was no one on his team yet he was still able to get them into the postseason and even one Finals.
Cowherd did a career comparison to Jordan because people only focus on what they want to but by age 31, Jordan had only been to the Finals 3 times, granted he won all 3 but compare that to LBJ who by age 31 has been to the Finals 7 times and has won the trophy 3 times with 2 entirely different teams. Leading up to that first championship, Jordan's postseason record wasn't very good compared to LBJ's and his first 7 years in Cleveland, there was no one on his team yet he was still able to get them into the postseason and even one Finals.
qwerty
Well-known member
The "show up" argument is somewhat absurd. The "killer instinct" is always one thing people refer to when saying Jordan is better than lebron. When lebron doesn't show up, in some instances he is trying to play a team game and get his team mates involved, trying to play "the right way", they end up sucking and therefore he didn't show up.
Lebron taller than Jordan, stronger than Jordan, faster than Jordan. In their respective primes lebron would have shut Jordan down.
Lebron taller than Jordan, stronger than Jordan, faster than Jordan. In their respective primes lebron would have shut Jordan down.
qwerty said:
Physically yes. As an athlete, no NBA player has ever matched LBJ. I think his flaws are in his personality. He's a much more likable and all around better person than MJ, but he's not what we want from our star athletes.
Being wishy-washy about where he plays, calling out teammates but not calling out teammates (FIT-OUT, FIT-IN incident), unfollowing the team on Twitter, and all sorts of other social media nonsense. Even yesterday, wearing that "Ultimate Warrior" was an example of more passive-aggressiveness.
MJ was different in that he would just punch his teammate and straight up embarrass someone he had a minor grudge.
Obviously Lebron is simply a much nicer person - probably too nice hence his passive-aggressiveness. But we just don't want that in our sports heroes unfortunately. I guess it says more about society than it does about Lebron.
The NBA should change the following:
Get rid of the hack a shaq (makes the game longer), the playoff seeding should be the teams with the best record (this will most likely lead to a more exciting playoff), if the NBA doesn't want to change the playoff format then shit teams and have OKC and a Texas team move to the East conference.
Get rid of the hack a shaq (makes the game longer), the playoff seeding should be the teams with the best record (this will most likely lead to a more exciting playoff), if the NBA doesn't want to change the playoff format then shit teams and have OKC and a Texas team move to the East conference.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I would like them to figure out how to fix the East/West alignment too but you can't do that without basically getting rid of an East/West Finals.
It could probably just be top 16 teams and then a reseed after each round but that's too much of a shake up.
It could probably just be top 16 teams and then a reseed after each round but that's too much of a shake up.
Re: hack-a-shaq
Heard Rick Barry interview recently and the underhand free throw was discussed. In Wilt Chamberlain's best season, he shot underhand FTs. In his 100 pt game, he made 28 of 32 FTs underhanded. But he went back to overhand after that season because he said he felt like a sissy. His career avg was 51%.
If I would Andre Drummond, Dwight Howard, or DeAndre Jordan, my next phone call would be to Rick Barry. How much more would those guys be if they shot 70% FTs? What's the value of a 3 qtr All-Star vs a 4 qtr All-Star? An extra $5-7M/yr? Even if I'm already wealthy, I'll look like a sissy at the FT line for an extra $50M in lifetime earnings.
Heard Rick Barry interview recently and the underhand free throw was discussed. In Wilt Chamberlain's best season, he shot underhand FTs. In his 100 pt game, he made 28 of 32 FTs underhanded. But he went back to overhand after that season because he said he felt like a sissy. His career avg was 51%.
If I would Andre Drummond, Dwight Howard, or DeAndre Jordan, my next phone call would be to Rick Barry. How much more would those guys be if they shot 70% FTs? What's the value of a 3 qtr All-Star vs a 4 qtr All-Star? An extra $5-7M/yr? Even if I'm already wealthy, I'll look like a sissy at the FT line for an extra $50M in lifetime earnings.