My Perfect Holiday on the Irvine Ranch?

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1259592013][quote author="bkshopr" date=1259565125]RC,



This thread will get you into trouble and leave a negative impression for others to question your faith. I know a lot of church goers attend church for social reason and show off their wealth.</blockquote>


What the ...?



You might wish to revisit my comment. I <em>never</em> questioned RC's faith. I've never met the guy, but do not doubt that he believes in God and Jesus Christ, and that Jesus was crucified and died for RC's sins. I don't question RC's faith at all, particularly in light of how open he is about it. I have no doubt the RC does his best every day to live up to the teachings of his church.



What I questioned was the theology his church was teaching. The reasoning used to justify material wealth is relatively new (only about 60 years old). Of course, questions about and divisions arising from Christian theology are more than 1000 years older than Martin Luther's posting of his 95 theses, which is the basis for the current Protestant line of Christian churches. Prior to that, you had split between the Catholics and Orthodox. Before that, you had a group of people who voted for which books would comprise the Christian Bible, and before that you had the question of whether to follow Paul or James in the early church after the death of Jesus. Is the theology necessarily "bad" because it is new? Not in my opinion. My opinion is that it does not hold water because it is not particularly faithful to either the letter or spirit of the text, and the reasoning used to get to the result is rather tortured.



But that's one of the great things about America: you can believe whatever the heck you like. If RC chooses to believe that the Bible / Jesus was neutral about the possession of money and wealth, more power to him. No one is suggesting that I can't disagree with him about that, are they???</blockquote>


I'm not jumping on the hate train here, I just don't understand how you got <em>your church is f*#ked up</em> from two posts that were entirely unrelated to each other. The partial quote you used vaguely referred to faith and the post you quoted in reply used the word Christian once... in reference to his impression of my post. How did you extrapolate that into "I couldn?t help but think that your church was doing it wrong."
 
[quote author="roundcorners" date=1259580537][quote author="bkshopr" date=1259565125]RC,



This thread will get you into trouble and leave a negative impression for others to question your faith. I know a lot of church goers attend church for social reason and show off their wealth.</blockquote>


This is another reason why I want to start this thread, at all these family gatherings, there is always this huge white elephant in the room; people are courteous and respectful but never really address deep root problems that run in the family. I almost wish they would just have a big fight and get all the issues out in the open, instead of just talking about the food, watch sports and brag about accomplishments......</blockquote>


I've noticed that whites and Asians seem to have trouble openly communicAting regarding family issues, while Hispanics tend to be a lot more open, not sure why but just what I have noticed in my experiences. Maybe a cultural thing?
 
I don't know much about the preaching of religion. Could chasing after materialism and luxury be against the Church doctrine such as idol worshipping and the lack humility?
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1259625534]Does this thread mean rich people can't go to heaven?



Just wondering.</blockquote>


If he/she show up at the Gate with a money clip, a diamond watch, and a gold ring (or a LV bag), Peter won't let him/her in.
 
To briefly answer BK's and IHO's materialism question, again wealth is not bad or good; sure a lot of wealthy Christians will end up in heaven; but I'm not going to judge which ones. I'm not about to say that the one driving the Lexus will and the one driving the Mercedes will not. It's not my place and not our job.



Materialism is simply defined by the pursuit of wealth and possessions to a point that it consumes your very purpose of life and existence. It crowds out God's rightful place in the center of your heart and life and the drive to consume and possess more and more stuff takes over. You're basically trying to fill this emotional/spiritual void in your heart by consuming. That is why I agree with Nude, we all know that a big house is not going to make you happy in the long run.



Now, everyone, Christian or not struggles with materialism to some extent. We all need some extent of materials or stuff in our lives to live; comfortably or to some extent of comfort. And the scale of stuff we need is so subjective depending where you live in the world. The point is that does the stuff have an "hold" on you.



A couple of litmus tests that I use to constantly gauge materialism is: Can I give the stuff away? Do I hold all the things I own with open hands? First, I ask if I really need the stuff in the first place; and then if I think someone else has a greater need for it, then there is a good chance I'll try to give it away. There are friends who hold on to their house with open hands; the husband has been out of work for almost half a year now; they will lose their condo in Stanton, they are sad, but owning the condo doesn't consume them.



I'm usually more than willing to give stuff and give my time away; it's giving money that I struggle with. I'll write more about that later.. but I hope this explains some things...
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1259625534]Does this thread mean rich people can't go to heaven?



Just wondering.</blockquote>


I think it depends on who you ask (and by that, I mean which particular sub-theologies of Christianity) and other factors (e.g., do you believe in God and have met the other "basic" requirements to be a Christian). Then there are two schools that differ somewhat. One says that so long as you have faith in God, you will be admitted to heaven. Another requires you to act on the faith (e.g., giving to the poor, etc.)



But lets say you meet the "basic" requirements, do good acts, and are rich, would you be barred from heaven? I dunno. I think that may be a little of which RC and I were discussing. The wealth factor could also tie back into the faith element (i.e., if you believed God would take care of your needs, you would have no need for wealth).



Does that sufficiently not answer your question? ;-P
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1259598235]I'm not jumping on the hate train here, I just don't understand how you got <em>your church is f*#ked up</em> from two posts that were entirely unrelated to each other. The partial quote you used vaguely referred to faith and the post you quoted in reply used the word Christian once... in reference to his impression of my post. How did you extrapolate that into "I couldn?t help but think that your church was doing it wrong."</blockquote>


I don't see it as the "hate train," just that maybe you read my answer a little differently. I think RC got it, though.



I don't think his church is f-ed up. I suspect that most of what they preach is based on the Bible. I would probably quibble with 10% or less of it. The reason I parsed his quote was to pluck out the parts regarding wealth. It is no secret from RC's overall posting history that he is deeply involved with his church and Christianity. Anyway, I was trying to point out that, despite some johnny-come-lately reasoning, the accumulation of wealth was not compatible with practicing Christianity.



Or maybe it is - and there are a whole lot of Catholic priests who have been taking vows of poverty (although not always living up to them) for thousands of years who are <em>pissed off</em> right about now.



{And if the above makes no sense, I might agree with you. I've been staring at a computer screen far too long today and simply cannot think any longer.}
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1259675970]{And if the above makes no sense, I might agree with you. I've been staring at a computer screen far too long today and simply cannot think any longer.}</blockquote>


I think you suffer from my wife's plight; she's so smart and thinking so quickly that she assumes everyone is keeping up with her train of thought... when she hasn't communicated a thing for ten minutes.



However, this thread has thrown into stark relief the worst aspect of this forum being closed: so many on-going conversations are going to be muted overnight. :down:
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1259676478][quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1259675970]{And if the above makes no sense, I might agree with you. I've been staring at a computer screen far too long today and simply cannot think any longer.}</blockquote>


I think you suffer from my wife's plight; she's so smart and thinking so quickly that she assumes everyone is keeping up with her train of thought... when she hasn't communicated a thing for ten minutes.



However, this thread has thrown into stark relief the worst aspect of this forum being closed: so many on-going conversations are going to be muted overnight. :down:</blockquote>


And this is why you should come with us anyway :down: :down:
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1259675970]Anyway, I was trying to point out that, despite some johnny-come-lately reasoning, the accumulation of wealth was not compatible with practicing Christianity.



Or maybe it is - and there are a whole lot of Catholic priests who have been taking vows of poverty (although not always living up to them) for thousands of years who are <em>pissed off</em> right about now. </blockquote>


this.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1259718381][quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1259675970]Anyway, I was trying to point out that, despite some johnny-come-lately reasoning, the accumulation of wealth was not compatible with practicing Christianity.



Or maybe it is - and there are a whole lot of Catholic priests who have been taking vows of poverty (although not always living up to them) for thousands of years who are <em>pissed off</em> right about now. </blockquote>


this.</blockquote>


Sheesh no_vas... you suck at teh intarwebz. I fixed your mangled quote.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top