Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
- Thread starter panda
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One is the financial capital of the world and other is the political capital...totally expected.
And as I stated earlier...Atlanta still in Georgia where borderline racist people can get elected governor. I dont think you understand how impactful something like that is.
This is precisely why they should have chosen Georgia.
Education and jobs which require working with other immigrants and people of color is how you turn that state purple and then blue .
Most ?non hardcore? racists in the rural areas only know the caricatures of immigrants from warching the scaremongers on Fox News. They have little experience themselves.
Missed opportunity by amazon , in my opinion . But like I said they probably made up their minds months in advance ...
So what words are appropriate to describe today s right wing?
Back to the point , and without name calling ? 2.8 bn tax giveaway for a 2.4bn investment is not the best ROI from a math perspective .
Now there may be other reasons for supporting the hq2 location and that?s fine, but let?s not overlook basic facts here to justify a personal bias .
Agreed. That is why I am not a libertarian. Corporations are legally obligated to look out for their own interests (and the interests of their SHs) not society. Regarding your point above as to Amazon and Georgia, there is no real incentive for Amazon to go there. Amazon want to attract talent here and abroad...going to DC and NYC will do that...Atlanta will not. Amazon is not in the business of social engineering.
The unspoken truth. Would the Amazon employees be accepted in the GA community? (people might get nervous with the potential changing demographics with the diverse workforce of Amazon. I?m using the nervous word that came from Panda that lives in Georgia. He knows Georgia more than Californians since he lives there.)
I know people in Atlanta and in some way it is not the Deep South but in some ways it is very much the Deep South. Discomfort flows both ways.
If I was a minority with job options, watching what is happening in the Georgia elections would make me push Atlanta way down on the list. Oh and the stupid tomahawk chants.
California is unbelievably diverse and accepting (I also include cities like Seattle, Portland, NYC, and a few others). Most other cities have a distinct minority...Houston has a big Vietnamese population, Atlanta has a big Korean population, Detroit/Michigan has a big Arab/Muslim community but seldomly do you have the wide ranging group of minorities as you do in LA or SF. It makes a big difference culturally to even someone like me who is 1.5 generation.
Amazon is no better than any other corporation. They underpay their workers and look out for their SHs first and foremost.
They can always put a distribution center in a low wage state. It?s a whole new ballgame when you are talking about relocating a corporate office. Corporate office may be secured, but how about when they leave work.
You don?t want your employee who is an engineer or IT guru to get harassed going to the super market.
Australia has the right idea.
Irvinecommuter
New member
Panda said:
One is the financial capital of the world and other is the political capital...totally expected.
And as I stated earlier...Atlanta still in Georgia where borderline racist people can get elected governor. I dont think you understand how impactful something like that is.
Irvinecommuter said:
This is precisely why they should have chosen Georgia.
Education and jobs which require working with other immigrants and people of color is how you turn that state purple and then blue .
Most ?non hardcore? racists in the rural areas only know the caricatures of immigrants from warching the scaremongers on Fox News. They have little experience themselves.
Missed opportunity by amazon , in my opinion . But like I said they probably made up their minds months in advance ...
Soylent Green Is People said:
So what words are appropriate to describe today s right wing?
Back to the point , and without name calling ? 2.8 bn tax giveaway for a 2.4bn investment is not the best ROI from a math perspective .
Now there may be other reasons for supporting the hq2 location and that?s fine, but let?s not overlook basic facts here to justify a personal bias .
panda
Well-known member
Fortune is right on the immigrants. Since we are on the topic of colors.. notice how the red (63.2) percentage is similar between Canyon View Elementary (Irvine) and Johns Creek Elementary (57.8%). The demographics are parents similar to my age in the 40s. The main difference is that most of the make up of 57.8% are Asian immigrants from China, India, and Korea vs 63.2% of the Asian parents in Canyon View Elementary school are probably like 1.5, 2nd Gen Asian American like myself.
The Asian Demographic shift in Johns Creek was dramatic in the last 10 years. Perhaps Irvine went thru this in the 80s or 90s, with some Asian/White racial tension.. but I totally understand the white people getting nervous here. They are not racist, they just never seen any demographic shift like this happen before, especially since 2008. My family moved to Atlanta in 2011, and I can testify the changes I have seen here in the last 7 years feel like I have lived here for 20 - 25years.
The Asian Demographic shift in Johns Creek was dramatic in the last 10 years. Perhaps Irvine went thru this in the 80s or 90s, with some Asian/White racial tension.. but I totally understand the white people getting nervous here. They are not racist, they just never seen any demographic shift like this happen before, especially since 2008. My family moved to Atlanta in 2011, and I can testify the changes I have seen here in the last 7 years feel like I have lived here for 20 - 25years.
fortune11 said:
Irvinecommuter said:
Nervous of color? (Are we in the 1960s?)
Panda said:Fortune is right on the immigrants. Since we are on the topic of colors.. notice how the red (63.2) percentage is similar between Canyon View Elementary (Irvine) and Johns Creek Elementary (57.8%). The demographics are parents similar to my age in the 40s. The main difference is that most of the make up of 57.8% are Asian immigrants from China, India, and Korea vs 63.2% of the Asian parents in Canyon View Elementary school are probably like 1.5, 2nd Gen Asian American like myself.
The Asian Demographic shift in Johns Creek was dramatic in the last 10 years. Perhaps Irvine went thru this in the 80s or 90s, with some Asian/White racial tension.. but I totally understand the white people getting nervous here. They are not racist, they just never seen any demographic shift like this happen before, especially since 2008. My family moved to Atlanta in 2011, and I can testify the changes I have seen here in the last 7 years feel like I have lived here for 20 - 25years.
fortune11 said:Irvinecommuter said:
sgip
Well-known member
To quote the Godfather - "It's not personal Sonny. It's strictly business". Note however in HQ2's location decision it was both. If you can get that kind of $$$ from local governments, why not? Amazon first and foremost is a for profit enterprise. Bezos even got Virginia to burp up an advanced heads up in writing on any FOIA requests! Talk about being played like a Stradivarius
[url]https://www.fastcompany.com/90266892/new-york-got-played-by-amazon[/url]
Hey, if you're in the process of fleeing one socialist paradise (Seattle) why not get two other socialist state governments to fight it out for the best deal possible? And that, Amazon did.
As for the personal part? Both NYC and Virginia HQ2's are about a 20 minute drive from Bezo's homes in NYC and Washington DC.
Anyone on with any sense (Right or Left...) should be pissed about it. This is welfare of the worst kind. Will anything change? Of course not. Even if Congress flips 100% Blue and we get a party change President, New York City is a Democratically controlled city, yet look what they surrendered.
Come to think of the movie quote, perhaps this has all been more of a "Kneel beforeBesos Zod" moment.
[url]https://www.fastcompany.com/90266892/new-york-got-played-by-amazon[/url]
Hey, if you're in the process of fleeing one socialist paradise (Seattle) why not get two other socialist state governments to fight it out for the best deal possible? And that, Amazon did.
As for the personal part? Both NYC and Virginia HQ2's are about a 20 minute drive from Bezo's homes in NYC and Washington DC.
Anyone on with any sense (Right or Left...) should be pissed about it. This is welfare of the worst kind. Will anything change? Of course not. Even if Congress flips 100% Blue and we get a party change President, New York City is a Democratically controlled city, yet look what they surrendered.
Come to think of the movie quote, perhaps this has all been more of a "Kneel before
Ok, so you agree that It?s a bad deal for taxpayers . So no point hating Alexandra occasio Cortez for it .
Every year, American cities and states spend up to $90 billion in tax breaks and cash grants to urge companies to move among states. That?s more than the federal government spends on housing, education, or infrastructure.
This farce should stop
I repeat what I Have said several times before ? our system is a combination of socialism for the very rich and large corporates combined with rugged individualism for the middle class and small guys, many of whom end up blaming immigrants and minorities for their woes . I have some experience here as many of those large corporations are my consulting clients.
Don?t hate the left for pointing out this hypocrisy . The left has many flaws otherwise but pointing out corporate welfare is not one of them
Every year, American cities and states spend up to $90 billion in tax breaks and cash grants to urge companies to move among states. That?s more than the federal government spends on housing, education, or infrastructure.
This farce should stop
I repeat what I Have said several times before ? our system is a combination of socialism for the very rich and large corporates combined with rugged individualism for the middle class and small guys, many of whom end up blaming immigrants and minorities for their woes . I have some experience here as many of those large corporations are my consulting clients.
Don?t hate the left for pointing out this hypocrisy . The left has many flaws otherwise but pointing out corporate welfare is not one of them
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I'd actually like one of those 4-Star Amazon stores in Irvine.
Same day delivery is great, but some of this stuff I actually want to touch before I buy.
#thatswhatqwertouchsaid
Same day delivery is great, but some of this stuff I actually want to touch before I buy.
#thatswhatqwertouchsaid
Irvinecommuter
New member
fortune11 said:
Agreed. That is why I am not a libertarian. Corporations are legally obligated to look out for their own interests (and the interests of their SHs) not society. Regarding your point above as to Amazon and Georgia, there is no real incentive for Amazon to go there. Amazon want to attract talent here and abroad...going to DC and NYC will do that...Atlanta will not. Amazon is not in the business of social engineering.
Irvinecommuter said:
The unspoken truth. Would the Amazon employees be accepted in the GA community? (people might get nervous with the potential changing demographics with the diverse workforce of Amazon. I?m using the nervous word that came from Panda that lives in Georgia. He knows Georgia more than Californians since he lives there.)
Georgia is not Mississippi or Oklahoma or South Carolina
The Atlanta metro area and its suburbs Have decent talent pool, but different culturally than amazon hq in Seattle
So it comes down to basically being comfortable with whoever fits your existing corporate culture .
Fine with that , but then you (amazon) are no better Than those golf playing older white executives who keep minorities from top positions in the firm because of ?lack of fit? which is just a code for cultural discrimination.
All this is conjecture on my part - obviously I have no idea what went on behind the scenes at amazon for this decision
The Atlanta metro area and its suburbs Have decent talent pool, but different culturally than amazon hq in Seattle
So it comes down to basically being comfortable with whoever fits your existing corporate culture .
Fine with that , but then you (amazon) are no better Than those golf playing older white executives who keep minorities from top positions in the firm because of ?lack of fit? which is just a code for cultural discrimination.
All this is conjecture on my part - obviously I have no idea what went on behind the scenes at amazon for this decision
Irvinecommuter
New member
fortune11 said:
I know people in Atlanta and in some way it is not the Deep South but in some ways it is very much the Deep South. Discomfort flows both ways.
If I was a minority with job options, watching what is happening in the Georgia elections would make me push Atlanta way down on the list. Oh and the stupid tomahawk chants.
California is unbelievably diverse and accepting (I also include cities like Seattle, Portland, NYC, and a few others). Most other cities have a distinct minority...Houston has a big Vietnamese population, Atlanta has a big Korean population, Detroit/Michigan has a big Arab/Muslim community but seldomly do you have the wide ranging group of minorities as you do in LA or SF. It makes a big difference culturally to even someone like me who is 1.5 generation.
Amazon is no better than any other corporation. They underpay their workers and look out for their SHs first and foremost.
Indeed, in selecting New York and Virginia for its new locations, Amazon turned down seemingly richer offers just next door. Maryland and New Jersey each offered multibillion-dollar incentive packages that dwarfed the ones Amazon accepted.
?An additional $7.5 billion in subsidies wasn?t enough to get Amazon to move across the river,? said Michael Farren, an economist at the Mercatus Center, a libertarian think tank, referring to the difference between Maryland?s offer of $8.5 billion and Virginia?s of less than $1 billion. ?That just says that subsidies were never what mattered in the first place.?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/business/economy/amazon-hq2-va-long-island-city-incentives.html
p.s. I changed the name of this idiotic thread
?An additional $7.5 billion in subsidies wasn?t enough to get Amazon to move across the river,? said Michael Farren, an economist at the Mercatus Center, a libertarian think tank, referring to the difference between Maryland?s offer of $8.5 billion and Virginia?s of less than $1 billion. ?That just says that subsidies were never what mattered in the first place.?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/business/economy/amazon-hq2-va-long-island-city-incentives.html
p.s. I changed the name of this idiotic thread
One thing we can agree on ? no more empty ?virtue signaling ? from amazon or bezos ... They got the benefit of doubt for way too long . Bernie Sanders was really onto something despite all his other flaws .
This company is a classic case of using public goods (and taxpayer funded infrastructure) to enhance its own bottom line and then hollowing out that same base from within . Newt Gingrich couldn?t have designed it any better
This company is a classic case of using public goods (and taxpayer funded infrastructure) to enhance its own bottom line and then hollowing out that same base from within . Newt Gingrich couldn?t have designed it any better
Irvinecommuter said:
They can always put a distribution center in a low wage state. It?s a whole new ballgame when you are talking about relocating a corporate office. Corporate office may be secured, but how about when they leave work.
You don?t want your employee who is an engineer or IT guru to get harassed going to the super market.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I have a friend who works in tech in Georgia.
Isn't there a large tech sector there?
It's just so hot down there... esp compared to Seattle.
Isn't there a large tech sector there?
It's just so hot down there... esp compared to Seattle.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
fortune11 said:
Australia has the right idea.