Laguna Crossing & Orchard Hills Postponed to 2009

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
<p>IR, </p>

<p>Why would you consider Irvine company "land" portfolio non performing assets? Irvine company is a private company, and land is part of their assets. They had this "asset" for a long time, and I am sure they already have a lot of "paper gain". If they believe "longer term" the land price will slowly come back, then there is nothing wrong with their strategy. The last thing I will call their irvine land portfoliio is "non performing assets". They might have some "opportunity costs" by holding on to the land depend on what kind of "alternative" opportunities they are comfortable pursuing.</p>

<p>I am sure you won't consider your IRA / 401K stock porfolio "non performing assets" during those "lean years", and anxious to dump it at lower prices. </p>

<p> </p>
 
irvine123,





It is non-performing because if they are not selling any, it isn't generating any income. Raw land is a negatively cashflowing investment because you are always paying taxes and maintenance. They make some money from farming, but not very much.





It is just like a bank REO is a non-performing asset. It is on the books, it doesn't generate any income, and it costs them in taxes and maintenance. If holding these for a profit off in the future were a good idea, banks would not be selling them.
 
<p>There are "many" 2nd gen. Asian families with $300k+ household income, but they are definitely not "typical". </p>

<p>The typical 2nd gen Asian families could probably count on some (one time) financial contribution from their parents to purchase their first home, not much else is any different. Without creative financing, pricing is a major issue, even with the few tens to a couple of hundreds of thousand dollars from mom and dad for down payment. Keep in mind, the very wealthy ones are not likely to choose Irvine as their home, after all that would be too typical.</p>

<p>I don't have any stats. I only have anecdotal evidence from being one of those Asian family you mentioned, and from knowing many other affluent Asian families in my business dealings.</p>

<p> </p>
 
<p> </p>

<p>I have stats. As of 2005, 10% of Irvine Households reported over $200K income. 6800 households for the entire city. <a href="http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ADPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=16000US0636770&-qr_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_DP3&-ds_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_&-_lang=en&-_sse=on">http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ADPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=16000US0636770&-qr_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_DP3&-ds_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_&-_lang=en&-_sse=on</a></p>

<p>NIR is probably right, picking up an addtitional 1000 homes and households at $200K isn't hard for the city if they build it. however, that segment, $200-$300K, good money, but not "wealthy" is Irvine's new target market, Upper Middle Class.</p>
 
<p>IR,</p>

<p>Do you think TIC will ever get its $1.25+ million asking price for Orchard Hills during a period where the effects of the housing crash will be still be felt? Or will they have to reduce the prices drastically? Remember that a $2.25 million dollar 3800 sqft home requires an income of $650K (3.5 DTI). There are not many Irviners who have that cash and those who do have plenty of options to live elsewhere.</p>
 
garfangle,





In a typical real estate price crash, the high end crashes last, but it crashes hardest. I would be quite surprised if the Irvine Company could actually sell any units at those price points in 2010.
 
<p>Are we really to believe that these "2nd gen asians" who are "highly educated with typical household income of $300K+" are either unable or unwilling to recognize when something is priced more than it is worth? NIR appears to be arguing that this population of hard-working, intelligent professionals is sophisticaed enough to secure $300,000 incomes but would fail miserably on The Price is Right. Puh-lease. If NIR is right, I'm going to quit my job and start selling bridges in Brooklyn to this population.</p>

<p>Just because I can afford something doesn't mean I buy it without evaluating whether I'm getting ripped off.</p>
 
<p>"Typical" 2nd generation asians are not savers, they are spenders. I know way too many 2nd gen peeps who bought homes when they obviously could not afford it (interest only payments), and hoped to refinance when the prices increased in the coming years. I doubt many of them have any cash to buy a home now that 100% financing is gone. </p>

<p>BTW, if they did make 300k+, they won't live in Irvine. Every asian has that. They want something with a fancier name attached to their neighborhood they purchased. Ask someone who bought one of those homes near HB, and they won't say "Huntington Beach". They will name the complex in which they reside within HB, to which they delight to hear from me "Where exactly is that?"</p>
 
I agree. . . Asian making 300K+ are living in Newport or Crystal Cove. I think the 2nd generation Asians have picked up most of the American way (both good and bad).
 
<p>Blue --- that is so true about references to a specific neighborhood to give the impression of exclusivity. All of my in-laws live out in Porter Ranch (above Northridge in the SFV). This is a nice newer area in the hills over Northridge, made up of several gated communities at varying (but all high) price points. Whenever I am out there at a party I will constantly hear posturing and chest pounding like "We live in Renaissance" or "Are you still in The Heights" or "We are moving up from The Park to Sorrento next month". </p>

<p>I find it so funny, because in reality they all live on the same two square mile or so hill, enduring the same hurricane force winds, 100+ degree temperatures --- and get the pleasure of sharing the esteemed 818 area code with a Northridge address.</p>
 
I'm asian, and I don't earn ~$300k. I feel so inadequate. I'm 1st gen, fresh off the boat, so maybe that's my excuse for underachieving.





Garfangle, I prefer the term "Irvinite" to "Irviner". Can we coin that term and trademark it?
 
Would it be silly to think that the highly educated folks making $300k+ per year, Asian and others, are smart enough to rent instead of buy right now? Or do they just figure that they don't care how much equity they will lose over the next few years? Because having a huge mortgage is so much better than renting? No matter how much equity they will lose?
 
Sorry all. I got sidetracked by Chapman University. Those of you planning to send your kids to a small liberal art college please consider the Claremont Colleges: Scripps, Pomona College, Pitzer, Harvey Mudd, and Claremont McKenna. They teach students to contribute to society.



We all love Irvine because it is a place with the least housing depreciation. Everywhere else builders are bailing out quick by slashing selling price. San Diego and the Inland Empire are 2 very good examples. The aftermath is devastating for recovery. Those who bought there are walking away at greater pace than Irvine. At these locations there is no one there to control the pricings. It was left to the individual builders to make the call.



In Irvine it is completely different. TIC controls the price of every new home. Homeowners price their resale relatively to new prices set by TIC. The fact that resale WTF prices are everywhere is TIC has not introduced new products to dictate the final words. We are all waiting for this opportunity to make a purchase of this “bargain” new house. TIC is an incredibly sophisticated company working with top economists and researchers to protect its asset. At the same time all existing Irvine homeowners benefit from TIC’s stubbornness to give in to what the housing bears want.



Once the bears made a purchase of a home then they pray that TIC would never lower price again so their RE asset will continue to escalate upward. This is the assurance why so many financially unsophisticated individual bought in Irvine. Those who are not savvy with finance like myself would love to own property in Irvine because there is an Irvine Company out there looking out for its asset and (ours) hard earned purchase.



We all can say “forget the Irvine Ranch” and go somewhere else like Ladera and VoC. for some bargains. We all know at the end of the day TIC villages are superior designs and branded well. We then ask ourselves “Why are we so addicted to Irvine Ranch?” It is because we like Bren’s vision: to be able to experience learn, live, work, play and shop all within the Irvine Ranch. He donated tons of money to improve the university, Irvine and some Tustin schools way before you and I noticed the Ranch. Top financial, golf, and residential packages are offered to top renowned researchers to UCI.



We love TIC villages because of the theme landscape approach and buffers, the sense of arrival, the distinction between, private neighborhoods and public play spaces. These nice things required set aside land to create. The cost of the land and construction for the public amenities and landscape zones are all factored in to the 4-1/2 million land equation and ultimately evenly distributed among the for sale homes. The open recreational space in a TIC village is 40% while at VoC is 26%.



Who can afford all these nice developments? NIR speculate the Chinese would be the majority of the home shoppers. To some extent I think it is valid. Judging by history will repeat itself I draw my conclusion from the last recession. Over 60% of new sale transactions were Asian home shoppers and Chinese was the majority. The products were density and efficiency driven products. This time around 15 years later the ABC (American born Chinese) shoppers are completely different from the earlier 1.5 generation. They are the Americanized off springs with very different view in education, social circle, and finance. I believe the 1.5 generation (parents of ABC) along with ABC’s grand parents will chip in a big chunk of cash down payment so ABC will only be borrowing $417k. They believe in paying less interest and the cash bargaining power will yield a better deal.



The homes that they will be looking will most likely be a relatively new home in a resale market where they will have a bigger bargaining power than buying a brand new home. The only drawback that I see is the perception. A good house with good feng shui should not end up a resale. The detached condo is probably my biggest prediction because it is relatively maintenance free. ABC Chinese are not handyman like American. Kids learned power tool and shop skills from their “Tim Allen” dad in the garage. Chinese is very afraid of danger and would not expose their kids to these (blue collar) skills being afraid that they may like them too much and choose them as profession.



ABC generation does not fall into $300k income bracket. They are not the entrepreneurs of new products and companies. It is the 1.5 generation who is making the 300k. The 1.5 generation was during the infancy of computer and software technology. They are the one who started companies and made a lot of income. ABC may have attended a very nice college but their opportunities are very limited due to the maturity of the technology market. ABC will still have parents and grandparents down payment support but don’t count on it being a high end expensive home unless the expensive home is for the multi-generational living. ABC would rather have a tiny cottage than living with their parents.



Highest end homes would strike big with the 1.5 generation. They are the baby boomers at the peak of their success. Retirement is less than a decade around the corner. Their parents who sacrificed so much are still alive deserve to have the very best near the end of their lifelong journey. The 1.5 generation will live and take care of their parent until their death. This high end home purchase will be the testimony to honor the grand parents who gave up everything for the future generations. The proximity must be close to the ABC cottage because ABC’s do not how to boil those wonderful soup made from secret recipe. ABCs have to join their parents for Chinese homemade meals from time to time.



My prediction will be all density efficiency products and higher end products appealing the Chinese and other Asian buyers. During the hot market they represented 38% of all home shoppers at this time the number will be close to 55%.



For NIR start learning some Chinese custom and culture because it will put you ahead of your peers. It certainly helped me.



Cash down payment is the key right now. The lenders are not taking any risks more than $417k. This places the Chinese ahead of the pack due to cash power. TIC got to be very aware of its buyer demographic and secretly planning its product array for the Chinese shoppers.



The grading activities could not stop even though construction of homes is postponed to 2009-2010. The erosion and rainy season with potential mud over flow and its danger and interference with altering drainage pattern must be completed to provide public safety. So the activities you all see out there do not mean home will be constructed soon.



Bridge housing the affordable homes imposed by the City of Irvine TIC is extremely clever knowing that low income housing will affect its branding of villages near by and the aesthetic of low income housing is done poorly. IAC is currently responsible for managing the design and execution of these low income housings so TIC can control and minimize its negative impact to Irvine. This is a very smart move for TIC.
 
<p>Products for Laguna Crossing will be targeting the ABC demographic while the higher end products at Orchard Hills will cater to the 1.5 Chinese generation move up buyers. Many 1.5 generation may have outgrown their Northpark homes and ready for the upgrade with view at Orchard Hills. </p>

<p>North Irvine Realtor should structure a strategy to corner the Northpark resale market that Gary Falis and matthew Ingalls currently reign.</p>
 
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