IUSD might not be best for college admission

[StarmanMBA]

"College makes you stupider and angrier." - Dennis Prager

Look at the brainwashing that takes place in universities. Transgender and homosexuality nonsense, Marxism is lauded and capitalism is pooh poohed. This has all transpired within one generation, for when I attended a university, teaching was not remotely as crazy and politicized.
As Nobel Laureate, Milton Friedman, said, "Public education is a socialist monopoly, a real one."

Stanford University has more administrators than professors.
UC Berkeley is the home of Unabomber, Theodore Kaczynski, a genius and mathematician.
Standards have fallen so dramatically that at UCI, half of freshmen have to take classes in remedial English and math, and they call these "the best and brightest"? We're in trouble.

 

[momopi]

I agree with IHO. I love Irvine but if your ONLY goal is to get your kid into a Ivy, going private or less competitive public school is probably the way to go. This only works if both you and your child are highly motivated. Too much money / tiger parents in Irvine. While this is great for home prices and bragging rights, it makes it extremely difficult to stand out / get into top 5% of your class. Top universities will only accept so many students from any one school.

If you fail the initial attempt to get admitted to Ivy league schools as a freshman, there's still an (difficult) opportunity to transfer into Ivy League school after sophomore year. Harvard, Yale, & Stanford accept very few transfers, versus Cornell accepts many more.

Failing attempt #2, there's still the option to apply for grad school...

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

it might be easier for non IUSD students to get into good colleges but they are the ones likely to drop out because IUSD better prepare the students for the competitive nature of the elite schools

Elite colleges vie for top rankings. Dropout rates hurt the scoring therefore the administration must provide remedial tutoring assistance to the low performers to ensure graduation rate.

 

[Nwe]

Also... Ivy degree is usually only good for certain pursuits... kids can have good careers on a non-Ivy track... or even a non-college track (ask me how that worked out in about 6 years ).

I totally agree. Ivy only opens doors in the first few years after graduation. Yes I got the good interviews but you still have to hustle like everyone else and the rest is up to you in terms of success. I've worked with many successful bright ambitious people who didn't go to Ivies or top 20 schools. If you're a smart, passionate, and an out of the box, innovative thinker that will get you further than any "golden degree". Look at Mark Cuban!

Yes, Ivies will surround your kids with other likeminded kids and "in theory" raise the bar but it's definitely no guarantee. I went to an Ivy myself (2 degrees) and at the end of the day, it's more about bragging rights (like I just did ).

I actually do alumni interviews for my Ivy and this is my assessment -
If your child is a superstar it really doesn't matter if they go to University, Woodbridge, or Beckman, etc. Private schools like Sage or Webb will always get more kids into Ivies than any public school because they do get a more rigorous curriculum. But again, an average student at Sage doesn't have any more advantage than an average student at Irvine or Uni. Maybe the Sage counselor can get your child an interview but if an applicant is a superstar, it really doesn't matter where they went to high school. I'm actually more impressed by the kids who hustled and got an interview than the kids who felt entitled to an interview.
For my kids, I'm not worried which Irvine school they go to for high school. All the Irvine schools are competitive and these are incrementally small differences. You only have one chance to be a parent and your child only has one childhood. Give yourself and your child a break and just provide them with the most encouraging environment. Note, that I said encouraging vs discouraging!

 

[Harv]

I don’t understand why some people complain of the pressure cooker IUSD is. Don’t we want our kids to go to a school that adequately prepares them for college. Why does it matter that there are too many smart kids at IUSD unless IUSD grades on a bell system so it makes it harder to perform well. Does IUSD grade that way and limit the number of high grades?

 

[momopi]

When put under strong competitive pressure, there are people who thrive in the competition in one extreme, and then there are those who are demotivated by it in the other extreme.

For those who thrive in the competitive environment, they will strive to excel, be appealing to the opposite sex, possibly get married and have children. Financially they will seek to make more money instead of trying to save small money. Instead of blaming others for lack of success they will take it upon themselves to succeed. This type of person will thrive in dog eat dog capitalism or working for companies where you're expected to throw your coworkers under the bus.

Those who are demotivated by the strong competitive pressure will put themselves (and their mindset) in survival mode or seek to "lay flat". Financially they lean toward spending less and saving small money instead of seeking to make more. They tend to give up on romance, marriage and children, blaming their lack of success to factors like "not being born rich", "did not go to the right school", "did not have the right connections", etc. This type of person might do better if they move abroad to a lesser competitive environment, such as teaching English in Asia, or seek "iron rice bowl" jobs with government/education that provides stable income & pension.

 

[NelsonTamkin]

Hi Panda, not an Irvine parent, but been following this forum for many many years, and I hope to move back to OC one day - maybe after my kids are in college so that they don't have to attend IUSD where they might be mediocre. In my role in academia, I've been following the paths of many young people in professional neighborhoods in SoCal (LA, OC, northern SD). The anecdotes I've heard suggest this is another tough year for UC admissions for some kids with outstanding profiles (ie National Merit, 1530 SAT, multiple APs, excellent extracurriculars, etc.) Getting into UCLA from high school seems nearly impossible, yet I've seen many international kids successfully transfer from SMC. Good luck, I've got no answers.

 

[brergnat]

@Harv

When a weighted 4.1 GPA only puts your child in the top 40%, it can demoralize and demotivate many students. I think it is more important to be in the top 5% of a non competitive high school and get into a competitive college, not the other way around.

For example, only 9% of the University High Seniors applicants goto into UCLA last year. Among these students their SAT Scores and GPA were almost perfect ranking in the top 5% of their class.

What if your child is very creative with strong business acumen, good social skills and his dream school is to attend UCLA, but he has a 4.1 weighted GPA with 1290 SAT score?

Your child wouldn't have a chance getting admitted to directly from University High. He or she will be looking at the bottom tier UC schools like Riverside and Santa Cruz as a University High Senior with a 4.1GPA/1290 SAT.

As a father, what advice would you give your child to achieve his college dream to attend UCLA?

The advice I would give would be to attend Junior College and then try to transfer in. Or go to UCLA for graduate school. Undergrad isn't as important in the grand scheme of things.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Do UCs even look at SAT score anymore? It's not required... are they using them for tiebreakers?

I think it depends... I know several parents who got into UCs fairly easily without a SAT... but then they all had good GPAs and non-academic activities (sports, yearbook, theater, etc). Some got in, where the pure academics did not... so not sure if that means anything.

Start talking to your kids now... if they really want to go to a UC of choice... tell them about the JC to UC route... much easier and much cheaper (yeah yeah... no college life but I've already said my piece on that).

 

[CalBears96]

UCs don't look at SAT score anymore, not even for tiebreakers.

JC to UC route is fairly easy for non-capped majors. For capped majors, forget about it. But then again, it's practically impossible to get top UCs for capped majors unless you have great GPA and lots and lots of non-academic activities, including leadership roles.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

JC to UC route is fairly easy for non-capped majors. For capped majors, forget about it. But then again, it's practically impossible to get top UCs for capped majors unless you have great GPA and lots and lots of non-academic activities, including leadership roles.

I thought as long as you maintained the requirements of the Promise Program, you can transfer into any major after you finish your lower division curriculum.

A kid I knew who couldn't get into UCLA for an impacted major (super high GPA), finished their IVC curriculum in a year and transferred successfully into UCLA (where they will also finish a year early).

 

[Imnotmoving]

When put under strong competitive pressure, there are people who thrive in the competition in one extreme, and then there are those who are demotivated by it in the other extreme.

For those who thrive in the competitive environment, they will strive to excel, be appealing to the opposite sex, possibly get married and have children. Financially they will seek to make more money instead of trying to save small money. Instead of blaming others for lack of success they will take it upon themselves to succeed. This type of person will thrive in dog eat dog capitalism or working for companies where you're expected to throw your coworkers under the bus.

Those who are demotivated by the strong competitive pressure will put themselves (and their mindset) in survival mode or seek to "lay flat". Financially they lean toward spending less and saving small money instead of seeking to make more. They tend to give up on romance, marriage and children, blaming their lack of success to factors like "not being born rich", "did not go to the right school", "did not have the right connections", etc. This type of person might do better if they move abroad to a lesser competitive environment, such as teaching English in Asia, or seek "iron rice bowl" jobs with government/education that provides stable income & pension.

As someone who refuses to participate in any environment that is full of competitive pressure, I couldn’t disagree with your statement more.

 

[CalBears96]

@CalBears96
What is considered a capped and non capped major for the top UCs? I dont think Haas School of Business at Cal accepts any transfers. Is that what you mean by a capped major?

Do you consider the Business / Econ major at UCLA a capped major?

Mostly Computer Science and Engineering related. Different UCs would have other capped majors as well. UCSD, for example, also include Biological Sciences, Physics and Public Health as capped majors. In short, capped majors are majors with limited space, but widely popular, thus having very low acceptance rate.

 

[CalBears96]

I thought as long as you maintained the requirements of the Promise Program, you can transfer into any major after you finish your lower division curriculum.

A kid I knew who couldn't get into UCLA for an impacted major (super high GPA), finished their IVC curriculum in a year and transferred successfully into UCLA (where they will also finish a year early).

No, you're only guaranteed to be able to transfer to any UC of your choice, but not necessarily the major of your choice. There is a reason the capped majors are called capped majors. They have limited space.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Are high school students at IUSD not taking SATs anymore?

UC dropped the SAT requirement in 2020(?) partly because of Covid but there may have been other reasons.

Edit: Ahh... you posted at the same time. I think the SAT requirement is getting dropped by many colleges now.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Something like that... I think they took summer classes at IVC during high school. Probably had AP credits which shortened their IVC tenure even more and was able to transfer 2nd year and on track to finish degree this year (their 3rd).

The $60k cannot be used to purchase a brand new Porsche.

I would let them get the car.

Checking the UC website, yearly tuition is about $15k, so only really saving $30k unless they don't live at home.

 

[Imnotmoving]

I really like the kid that your knew. So his track was like:

IUSD freshman
IUSD sophomore
IUSD junior (dual enrollment at IVC)
IUSD senior (dual enrollment at IVC)

student goes in with 30 credit units
1 year at IVC and end year 60 credits.

UCLA junior year
UCLA senior year

Saves Irvine parents $60,000. If Panda was his dad, i would let the kid know that the $60k, he saved can be used only for two purposes. Seed money for a new business idea with a solid written business plan or as a down payment for his first small piece of property to live in. The $60k cannot be used to purchase a brand new Porsche.

What kind of social life does a high school student have with this type of schedule? I seriously worry about a mental health crisis coming our way.

 

[Imnotmoving]

Does your social life really matter in high school in the grand scheme of things? Does anyone still keep in touch with their high school friends these days? I think mental health issues of a child comes from an unloving and unstable home environment. Both parents working, Parents constantly fighting and arguing in front of their children, too many activities (piano, sports, etc), too much Kumon, too much social media, too much time spent on electronic devices (cell phones), parents and kids being pulled away in opposite directions from the busyness of life that comes with a pressure cooker environment.

I believe well socialized kids make happier and healthier adults down the rode. I absolutely think the friendships we have from elementary school all the way into high school are very important for building kids confidence and feeling accepted in their peer group. I think a well adjusted person with social skills is probably more important than grades in the long run. Nobody asks what your gpa was when you are an adult. From what I have witnessed in the Irvine schools are high pressure parents that place grades above all else. Kids need to have fun summer camps, days at the beach, sleepovers and engaged parents. And yes many people carry these friendships through life with them, it is a very important part of the human experience.

 

[qwerty]

Does your social life really matter in high school in the grand scheme of things? Does anyone still keep in touch with their high school friends these days? I think mental health issues of a child comes from an unloving and unstable home environment. Both parents working, Parents constantly fighting and arguing in front of their children, too many activities (piano, sports, etc), too much Kumon, too much social media, too much time spent on electronic devices (cell phones), parents and kids being pulled away in opposite directions from the busyness of life that comes with a pressure cooker environment.

To me it’s about letting kids be kids and enjoy their youth. They have their entire adult life to work and deal with marriage, kids, shitty bosses, working 60 hour weeks in their 20s etc. Society seems to be shifting and putting more pressure on kids from the time they are 7-8 years old. It’s pretty crazy. Maybe this varies by socioeconomic status. The more educated and money parents have it seems the more pressure they seem to put on kids so they can continue to make the family proud in the eyes of others.

 

[Imnotmoving]

To me it’s about letting kids be kids and enjoy their youth. They have their entire adult life to work and deal with marriage, kids, shitty bosses, working 60 hour weeks in their 20s etc. Society seems to be shifting and putting more pressure on kids from the time they are 7-8 years old. It’s pretty crazy. Maybe this varies by socioeconomic status. The more educated and money parents have it seems the more pressure they seem to put on kids so they can continue to make the family proud in the eyes of others.

Yes to everything but your view of the more educated and money parents have seem to apply more pressure. My husband and I are both very educated and have a substantial financial legacy. We both feel we did not get here because of a gpa a certain college. We have both advanced most in life by the relationships we have developed over the years, keeping our word and being truthful in everything. We truly apply less pressure to make sure the pursuit of career is based on what they want to do in their life. Not what we want them to do. Everything works out, I have faith in that.