Is $9,000 a fair price for filling out paperwork?
- Thread starter Mcdonna1980_IHB
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
awgee_IHB
New member
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1232340542][quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1232339979]If I do put in the offer by myself is she still able to collect the full 6% commission?</blockquote>
Yes. But why would you want to write up the offer yourself when she is already being paid to provide that service for you?
I personally will not work with a dual agent to represent me while representing the other party at the same time. I feel there is too much conflict of interest.</blockquote>
The agent is not representing the buyer. IMO, the agent is not representing the seller either. The agent is representing themselves. And to negotiate with a clear head, it is best to remember this.
Yes. But why would you want to write up the offer yourself when she is already being paid to provide that service for you?
I personally will not work with a dual agent to represent me while representing the other party at the same time. I feel there is too much conflict of interest.</blockquote>
The agent is not representing the buyer. IMO, the agent is not representing the seller either. The agent is representing themselves. And to negotiate with a clear head, it is best to remember this.
awgee_IHB
New member
[quote author="irvine123" date=1232340672]My suggestion: hire a real estate attorney to represent you on an hourly basis. Won't cost you $9000, and you can make sure everything is in order.</blockquote>
An attorney, since not being paid on commission, can advise you regarding the purchase contract with only your interests in mind. Any re agents involved always need the deal to close.
An attorney, since not being paid on commission, can advise you regarding the purchase contract with only your interests in mind. Any re agents involved always need the deal to close.
Mcdonna1980_IHB
New member
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1232350102]Are you going to share the link to the house you have in mind?</blockquote>
Sure, here you go. <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Fullerton/1800-Skyline-Way-92831/home/3161675">Link</a>Fire away!
Sure, here you go. <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Fullerton/1800-Skyline-Way-92831/home/3161675">Link</a>Fire away!
awgee_IHB
New member
[quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1232352781][quote author="SoCal78" date=1232350102]Are you going to share the link to the house you have in mind?</blockquote>
Sure, here you go. <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Fullerton/1800-Skyline-Way-92831/home/3161675">Link</a>Fire away!</blockquote>
It is quite simple.
"Jackie, here is my offer. Here is my good faith deposit check. Please write this offer with full knowledge that I will have the purchase agreement checked by my attorney before I sign it.
Sure, here you go. <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Fullerton/1800-Skyline-Way-92831/home/3161675">Link</a>Fire away!</blockquote>
It is quite simple.
"Jackie, here is my offer. Here is my good faith deposit check. Please write this offer with full knowledge that I will have the purchase agreement checked by my attorney before I sign it.
usctrojanman29_IHB
New member
[quote author="awgee" date=1232352533][quote author="irvine123" date=1232340672]My suggestion: hire a real estate attorney to represent you on an hourly basis. Won't cost you $9000, and you can make sure everything is in order.</blockquote>
An attorney, since not being paid on commission, can advise you regarding the purchase contract with only your interests in mind. Any re agents involved always need the deal to close.</blockquote>
So basically the attorney gets paid whether the deal gets done or not. What happens if there are complications or the deal falls through and the buyer needs to move on to another property? That's right...big attorney fees. There is a reason why most people use a realtor instead of an attorney (no out-of-pocket costs to the buyers). For someone like you Awgee, the use of an attorney may be more beneficial but for most people it is better to find a good realtor to present them. Sure the majority of realtors are worthless and greedy, but there are exceptions to the rule. It's best for the buyer to talk to the realtor about what they are looking and if they sense that the realtor is too pushy then they should find themselves another realtor. A good realtor will fight for their buyer to get them the best price. As in other businesses, a realtor's reputation is the thing that gets them referrals and new business.
An attorney, since not being paid on commission, can advise you regarding the purchase contract with only your interests in mind. Any re agents involved always need the deal to close.</blockquote>
So basically the attorney gets paid whether the deal gets done or not. What happens if there are complications or the deal falls through and the buyer needs to move on to another property? That's right...big attorney fees. There is a reason why most people use a realtor instead of an attorney (no out-of-pocket costs to the buyers). For someone like you Awgee, the use of an attorney may be more beneficial but for most people it is better to find a good realtor to present them. Sure the majority of realtors are worthless and greedy, but there are exceptions to the rule. It's best for the buyer to talk to the realtor about what they are looking and if they sense that the realtor is too pushy then they should find themselves another realtor. A good realtor will fight for their buyer to get them the best price. As in other businesses, a realtor's reputation is the thing that gets them referrals and new business.
usctrojanman29_IHB
New member
[quote author="awgee" date=1232353116][quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1232352781][quote author="SoCal78" date=1232350102]Are you going to share the link to the house you have in mind?</blockquote>
Sure, here you go. <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Fullerton/1800-Skyline-Way-92831/home/3161675">Link</a>Fire away!</blockquote>
It is quite simple.
"Jackie, here is my offer. Here is my good faith deposit check. Please write this offer with full knowledge that I will have the purchase agreement checked by my attorney before I sign it.</blockquote>
But the attorney will not be able to help her out in terms of if she is making a reasonable offer based upon things like comps, other listings, and detailed property information. Again, a good buyer's agent will help her in determining a fair and reasonable offer for the property as well as other small things that make the home buying process that much smoother for the buyer.
Sure, here you go. <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Fullerton/1800-Skyline-Way-92831/home/3161675">Link</a>Fire away!</blockquote>
It is quite simple.
"Jackie, here is my offer. Here is my good faith deposit check. Please write this offer with full knowledge that I will have the purchase agreement checked by my attorney before I sign it.</blockquote>
But the attorney will not be able to help her out in terms of if she is making a reasonable offer based upon things like comps, other listings, and detailed property information. Again, a good buyer's agent will help her in determining a fair and reasonable offer for the property as well as other small things that make the home buying process that much smoother for the buyer.
awgee_IHB
New member
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1232353984][quote author="awgee" date=1232352533][quote author="irvine123" date=1232340672]My suggestion: hire a real estate attorney to represent you on an hourly basis. Won't cost you $9000, and you can make sure everything is in order.</blockquote>
An attorney, since not being paid on commission, can advise you regarding the purchase contract with only your interests in mind. Any re agents involved always need the deal to close.</blockquote>
So basically the attorney gets paid whether the deal gets done or not. What happens if there are complications or the deal falls through and the buyer needs to move on to another property? That's right...big attorney fees. There is a reason why most people use a realtor instead of an attorney (no out-of-pocket costs to the buyers). For someone like you Awgee, the use of an attorney may be more beneficial but for most people it is better to find a good realtor to present them. Sure the majority of realtors are worthless and greedy, but there are exceptions to the rule. It's best for the buyer to talk to the realtor about what they are looking and if they sense that the realtor is too pushy then they should find themselves another realtor. A good realtor will fight for their buyer to get them the best price. As in other businesses, a realtor's reputation is the thing that gets them referrals and new business.</blockquote>
Absolutely! If I want representation, I want someone who is getting paid whether or not the deal gets done.
Otherwise, they are only, <strong>and I mean ONLY</strong>, representing a closed deal, which may not be in my interest. And mistakenly paying for someone to represent my interest when they only represent their own interest will be much more costly in the long run. Trusting a buyer's agent to negotiate the best price will cost a heck of a lot more than both the agent's commission and the lawyer's fee together.
The important thing is to be realistic and don't kid yourself about who is working for who and what. If I had a dollar for every sales person who said that they wouldn't be in business if they didn't uphold their rep. What a crock!
If a person is getting paid out of the deal, then their interest is the deal. There is nothing immoral or illegal about that, but it is ignorant for whoever is paying not to be realistic about the different parties' motivations. I remember purchasing a home where the listing agent and the seller kept repeating how important it was that they were selling to a nice family. I wanted to gag. I do not care who is paying the agents or how much. I only care about paying as little as possible, and that is real. I do not <strong>TRUST</strong> the others involved in the deal. I trust only that everybody concerned is looking out for their best interest. The original poster could save a lot of trouble if he/she understands that. He/she can deal exclusively with the listing agent as long as they keep it clear that the listing agent is not working for them or has their interest at heart.
When the buying agent gets paid, who pays them? That is bottom line. The buyer's agent is working for whomever is paying them.
An attorney, since not being paid on commission, can advise you regarding the purchase contract with only your interests in mind. Any re agents involved always need the deal to close.</blockquote>
So basically the attorney gets paid whether the deal gets done or not. What happens if there are complications or the deal falls through and the buyer needs to move on to another property? That's right...big attorney fees. There is a reason why most people use a realtor instead of an attorney (no out-of-pocket costs to the buyers). For someone like you Awgee, the use of an attorney may be more beneficial but for most people it is better to find a good realtor to present them. Sure the majority of realtors are worthless and greedy, but there are exceptions to the rule. It's best for the buyer to talk to the realtor about what they are looking and if they sense that the realtor is too pushy then they should find themselves another realtor. A good realtor will fight for their buyer to get them the best price. As in other businesses, a realtor's reputation is the thing that gets them referrals and new business.</blockquote>
Absolutely! If I want representation, I want someone who is getting paid whether or not the deal gets done.
Otherwise, they are only, <strong>and I mean ONLY</strong>, representing a closed deal, which may not be in my interest. And mistakenly paying for someone to represent my interest when they only represent their own interest will be much more costly in the long run. Trusting a buyer's agent to negotiate the best price will cost a heck of a lot more than both the agent's commission and the lawyer's fee together.
The important thing is to be realistic and don't kid yourself about who is working for who and what. If I had a dollar for every sales person who said that they wouldn't be in business if they didn't uphold their rep. What a crock!
If a person is getting paid out of the deal, then their interest is the deal. There is nothing immoral or illegal about that, but it is ignorant for whoever is paying not to be realistic about the different parties' motivations. I remember purchasing a home where the listing agent and the seller kept repeating how important it was that they were selling to a nice family. I wanted to gag. I do not care who is paying the agents or how much. I only care about paying as little as possible, and that is real. I do not <strong>TRUST</strong> the others involved in the deal. I trust only that everybody concerned is looking out for their best interest. The original poster could save a lot of trouble if he/she understands that. He/she can deal exclusively with the listing agent as long as they keep it clear that the listing agent is not working for them or has their interest at heart.
When the buying agent gets paid, who pays them? That is bottom line. The buyer's agent is working for whomever is paying them.
awgee_IHB
New member
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1232354447][quote author="awgee" date=1232353116][quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1232352781][quote author="SoCal78" date=1232350102]Are you going to share the link to the house you have in mind?</blockquote>
Sure, here you go. <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Fullerton/1800-Skyline-Way-92831/home/3161675">Link</a>Fire away!</blockquote>
It is quite simple.
"Jackie, here is my offer. Here is my good faith deposit check. Please write this offer with full knowledge that I will have the purchase agreement checked by my attorney before I sign it.</blockquote>
But the attorney will not be able to help her out in terms of if she is making a reasonable offer based upon things like comps, other listings, and detailed property information. Again, a good buyer's agent will help her in determining a fair and reasonable offer for the property as well as other small things that make the home buying process that much smoother for the buyer.</blockquote>
Darn straight the attorney will not <em>"be able to help her out in terms of if she is making a reasonable offer based upon things like comps, other listings, and detailed property information."</em> And chances that the buyer's agent can do those things without bias is about nil. The agent does not get paid unless the buyer buys. The agent's motivation is to get the buyer to make an offer and an offer that is larger than necessary. Most buyer nowadays know way more than the agents about comps. Heck, 95% of the time, when I walk into an open house, I know more about the property, the comps, and the neighborhood than the sitting agent, unless the sitting agent is also the listing agent. My wife cracks up. Two agents involved in one deal do not help things go smoother. One agent whose motivation is a closed deal is more than enough to make sure things go smooth.
Trusting a buying agent to <em>"help her in determining a fair and reasonable offer for the property"</em> is like trusting a car salesmen to help you determine the price of a car.
Sure, here you go. <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Fullerton/1800-Skyline-Way-92831/home/3161675">Link</a>Fire away!</blockquote>
It is quite simple.
"Jackie, here is my offer. Here is my good faith deposit check. Please write this offer with full knowledge that I will have the purchase agreement checked by my attorney before I sign it.</blockquote>
But the attorney will not be able to help her out in terms of if she is making a reasonable offer based upon things like comps, other listings, and detailed property information. Again, a good buyer's agent will help her in determining a fair and reasonable offer for the property as well as other small things that make the home buying process that much smoother for the buyer.</blockquote>
Darn straight the attorney will not <em>"be able to help her out in terms of if she is making a reasonable offer based upon things like comps, other listings, and detailed property information."</em> And chances that the buyer's agent can do those things without bias is about nil. The agent does not get paid unless the buyer buys. The agent's motivation is to get the buyer to make an offer and an offer that is larger than necessary. Most buyer nowadays know way more than the agents about comps. Heck, 95% of the time, when I walk into an open house, I know more about the property, the comps, and the neighborhood than the sitting agent, unless the sitting agent is also the listing agent. My wife cracks up. Two agents involved in one deal do not help things go smoother. One agent whose motivation is a closed deal is more than enough to make sure things go smooth.
Trusting a buying agent to <em>"help her in determining a fair and reasonable offer for the property"</em> is like trusting a car salesmen to help you determine the price of a car.
usctrojanman29_IHB
New member
[quote author="awgee" date=1232355457][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1232353984][quote author="awgee" date=1232352533][quote author="irvine123" date=1232340672]My suggestion: hire a real estate attorney to represent you on an hourly basis. Won't cost you $9000, and you can make sure everything is in order.</blockquote>
An attorney, since not being paid on commission, can advise you regarding the purchase contract with only your interests in mind. Any re agents involved always need the deal to close.</blockquote>
So basically the attorney gets paid whether the deal gets done or not. What happens if there are complications or the deal falls through and the buyer needs to move on to another property? That's right...big attorney fees. There is a reason why most people use a realtor instead of an attorney (no out-of-pocket costs to the buyers). For someone like you Awgee, the use of an attorney may be more beneficial but for most people it is better to find a good realtor to present them. Sure the majority of realtors are worthless and greedy, but there are exceptions to the rule. It's best for the buyer to talk to the realtor about what they are looking and if they sense that the realtor is too pushy then they should find themselves another realtor. A good realtor will fight for their buyer to get them the best price. As in other businesses, a realtor's reputation is the thing that gets them referrals and new business.</blockquote>
Absolutely! If I want representation, I want someone who is getting paid whether or not the deal gets done.
Otherwise, they are only, <strong>and I mean ONLY</strong>, representing a closed deal, which may not be in my interest. And mistakenly paying for someone to represent my interest when they only represent their own interest will be much more costly in the long run. Trusting a buyer's agent to negotiate the best price will cost a heck of a lot more than both the agent's commission and the lawyer's fee together.
The important thing is to be realistic and don't kid yourself about who is working for who and what. If I had a dollar for every sales person who said that they wouldn't be in business if they didn't uphold their rep. What a crock!
If a person is getting paid out of the deal, then their interest is the deal. There is nothing immoral or illegal about that, but it is ignorant for whoever is paying not to be realistic about the different parties' motivations. I remember purchasing a home where the listing agent and the seller kept repeating how important it was that they were selling to a nice family. I wanted to gag. I do not care who is paying the agents or how much. I only care about paying as little as possible, and that is real. I do not <strong>TRUST</strong> the others involved in the deal. I trust only that everybody concerned is looking out for their best interest. The original poster could save a lot of trouble if he/she understands that. He/she can deal exclusively with the listing agent as long as they keep it clear that the listing agent is not working for them or has their interest at heart.
When the buying agent gets paid, who pays them? That is bottom line. The buyer's agent is working for whomever is paying them.</blockquote>
I'm not saying that the incentives are misaligned in real estate, including with the buyer's agents, but to say that buyer's agent is working for the seller (since the seller is the one paying the commission) is a bit of a stretch. Again, I'm not gonna make excuses for the idiot realtors that will the good ones a bad name but to paint everyone with the same brush is a bit unfair. Plus, don't get me started on lawyers because I've worked with them enough to know that they'll suck the last dollar they can out of a client. It's a damned if u do and damned if you don't situation. A good buyer's agent is providing enough information to their buyers to make an informed decision regarding a potential offer as well as not pushing them into it by telling them..."this property won't last" or "we want to get an offer in before someone else does" I've always been more of a consultant for the buyers that I've represented by giving them the tools and information they need to make a decision they can sleep with at night.
An attorney, since not being paid on commission, can advise you regarding the purchase contract with only your interests in mind. Any re agents involved always need the deal to close.</blockquote>
So basically the attorney gets paid whether the deal gets done or not. What happens if there are complications or the deal falls through and the buyer needs to move on to another property? That's right...big attorney fees. There is a reason why most people use a realtor instead of an attorney (no out-of-pocket costs to the buyers). For someone like you Awgee, the use of an attorney may be more beneficial but for most people it is better to find a good realtor to present them. Sure the majority of realtors are worthless and greedy, but there are exceptions to the rule. It's best for the buyer to talk to the realtor about what they are looking and if they sense that the realtor is too pushy then they should find themselves another realtor. A good realtor will fight for their buyer to get them the best price. As in other businesses, a realtor's reputation is the thing that gets them referrals and new business.</blockquote>
Absolutely! If I want representation, I want someone who is getting paid whether or not the deal gets done.
Otherwise, they are only, <strong>and I mean ONLY</strong>, representing a closed deal, which may not be in my interest. And mistakenly paying for someone to represent my interest when they only represent their own interest will be much more costly in the long run. Trusting a buyer's agent to negotiate the best price will cost a heck of a lot more than both the agent's commission and the lawyer's fee together.
The important thing is to be realistic and don't kid yourself about who is working for who and what. If I had a dollar for every sales person who said that they wouldn't be in business if they didn't uphold their rep. What a crock!
If a person is getting paid out of the deal, then their interest is the deal. There is nothing immoral or illegal about that, but it is ignorant for whoever is paying not to be realistic about the different parties' motivations. I remember purchasing a home where the listing agent and the seller kept repeating how important it was that they were selling to a nice family. I wanted to gag. I do not care who is paying the agents or how much. I only care about paying as little as possible, and that is real. I do not <strong>TRUST</strong> the others involved in the deal. I trust only that everybody concerned is looking out for their best interest. The original poster could save a lot of trouble if he/she understands that. He/she can deal exclusively with the listing agent as long as they keep it clear that the listing agent is not working for them or has their interest at heart.
When the buying agent gets paid, who pays them? That is bottom line. The buyer's agent is working for whomever is paying them.</blockquote>
I'm not saying that the incentives are misaligned in real estate, including with the buyer's agents, but to say that buyer's agent is working for the seller (since the seller is the one paying the commission) is a bit of a stretch. Again, I'm not gonna make excuses for the idiot realtors that will the good ones a bad name but to paint everyone with the same brush is a bit unfair. Plus, don't get me started on lawyers because I've worked with them enough to know that they'll suck the last dollar they can out of a client. It's a damned if u do and damned if you don't situation. A good buyer's agent is providing enough information to their buyers to make an informed decision regarding a potential offer as well as not pushing them into it by telling them..."this property won't last" or "we want to get an offer in before someone else does" I've always been more of a consultant for the buyers that I've represented by giving them the tools and information they need to make a decision they can sleep with at night.
usctrojanman29_IHB
New member
[quote author="awgee" date=1232356105][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1232354447][quote author="awgee" date=1232353116][quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1232352781][quote author="SoCal78" date=1232350102]Are you going to share the link to the house you have in mind?</blockquote>
Sure, here you go. <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Fullerton/1800-Skyline-Way-92831/home/3161675">Link</a>Fire away!</blockquote>
It is quite simple.
"Jackie, here is my offer. Here is my good faith deposit check. Please write this offer with full knowledge that I will have the purchase agreement checked by my attorney before I sign it.</blockquote>
But the attorney will not be able to help her out in terms of if she is making a reasonable offer based upon things like comps, other listings, and detailed property information. Again, a good buyer's agent will help her in determining a fair and reasonable offer for the property as well as other small things that make the home buying process that much smoother for the buyer.</blockquote>
Darn straight the attorney will not <em>"be able to help her out in terms of if she is making a reasonable offer based upon things like comps, other listings, and detailed property information."</em> And chances that the buyer's agent can do those things without bias is about nil. The agent does not get paid unless the buyer buys. The agent's motivation is to get the buyer to make an offer and an offer that is larger than necessary. Most buyer nowadays know way more than the agents about comps. Heck, 95% of the time, when I walk into an open house, I know more about the property, the comps, and the neighborhood than the sitting agent, unless the sitting agent is also the listing agent. My wife cracks up. Two agents involved in one deal do not help things go smoother. One agent whose motivation is a closed deal is more than enough to make sure things go smooth.
Trusting a buying agent to <em>"help her in determining a fair and reasonable offer for the property"</em> is like trusting a car salesmen to help you determine the price of a car.</blockquote>
I agree with you for the most part, but not all agents are created equally. So we will have to agree to disagree because I know how greedy attorneys can be (even worse than realtors because they are actually supposed to be smart). Like I said, there are some good ones out there...IR2 comes to mind.
Sure, here you go. <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Fullerton/1800-Skyline-Way-92831/home/3161675">Link</a>Fire away!</blockquote>
It is quite simple.
"Jackie, here is my offer. Here is my good faith deposit check. Please write this offer with full knowledge that I will have the purchase agreement checked by my attorney before I sign it.</blockquote>
But the attorney will not be able to help her out in terms of if she is making a reasonable offer based upon things like comps, other listings, and detailed property information. Again, a good buyer's agent will help her in determining a fair and reasonable offer for the property as well as other small things that make the home buying process that much smoother for the buyer.</blockquote>
Darn straight the attorney will not <em>"be able to help her out in terms of if she is making a reasonable offer based upon things like comps, other listings, and detailed property information."</em> And chances that the buyer's agent can do those things without bias is about nil. The agent does not get paid unless the buyer buys. The agent's motivation is to get the buyer to make an offer and an offer that is larger than necessary. Most buyer nowadays know way more than the agents about comps. Heck, 95% of the time, when I walk into an open house, I know more about the property, the comps, and the neighborhood than the sitting agent, unless the sitting agent is also the listing agent. My wife cracks up. Two agents involved in one deal do not help things go smoother. One agent whose motivation is a closed deal is more than enough to make sure things go smooth.
Trusting a buying agent to <em>"help her in determining a fair and reasonable offer for the property"</em> is like trusting a car salesmen to help you determine the price of a car.</blockquote>
I agree with you for the most part, but not all agents are created equally. So we will have to agree to disagree because I know how greedy attorneys can be (even worse than realtors because they are actually supposed to be smart). Like I said, there are some good ones out there...IR2 comes to mind.
awgee_IHB
New member
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1232356290][quote author="awgee" date=1232355457][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1232353984][quote author="awgee" date=1232352533][quote author="irvine123" date=1232340672]My suggestion: hire a real estate attorney to represent you on an hourly basis. Won't cost you $9000, and you can make sure everything is in order.</blockquote>
An attorney, since not being paid on commission, can advise you regarding the purchase contract with only your interests in mind. Any re agents involved always need the deal to close.</blockquote>
So basically the attorney gets paid whether the deal gets done or not. What happens if there are complications or the deal falls through and the buyer needs to move on to another property? That's right...big attorney fees. There is a reason why most people use a realtor instead of an attorney (no out-of-pocket costs to the buyers). For someone like you Awgee, the use of an attorney may be more beneficial but for most people it is better to find a good realtor to present them. Sure the majority of realtors are worthless and greedy, but there are exceptions to the rule. It's best for the buyer to talk to the realtor about what they are looking and if they sense that the realtor is too pushy then they should find themselves another realtor. A good realtor will fight for their buyer to get them the best price. As in other businesses, a realtor's reputation is the thing that gets them referrals and new business.</blockquote>
Absolutely! If I want representation, I want someone who is getting paid whether or not the deal gets done.
Otherwise, they are only, <strong>and I mean ONLY</strong>, representing a closed deal, which may not be in my interest. And mistakenly paying for someone to represent my interest when they only represent their own interest will be much more costly in the long run. Trusting a buyer's agent to negotiate the best price will cost a heck of a lot more than both the agent's commission and the lawyer's fee together.
The important thing is to be realistic and don't kid yourself about who is working for who and what. If I had a dollar for every sales person who said that they wouldn't be in business if they didn't uphold their rep. What a crock!
If a person is getting paid out of the deal, then their interest is the deal. There is nothing immoral or illegal about that, but it is ignorant for whoever is paying not to be realistic about the different parties' motivations. I remember purchasing a home where the listing agent and the seller kept repeating how important it was that they were selling to a nice family. I wanted to gag. I do not care who is paying the agents or how much. I only care about paying as little as possible, and that is real. I do not <strong>TRUST</strong> the others involved in the deal. I trust only that everybody concerned is looking out for their best interest. The original poster could save a lot of trouble if he/she understands that. He/she can deal exclusively with the listing agent as long as they keep it clear that the listing agent is not working for them or has their interest at heart.
When the buying agent gets paid, who pays them? That is bottom line. The buyer's agent is working for whomever is paying them.</blockquote>
I'm not saying that the incentives are misaligned in real estate, including with the buyer's agents, but to say that buyer's agent is working for the seller (since the seller is the one paying the commission) is a bit of a stretch. Again, I'm not gonna make excuses for the idiot realtors that will the good ones a bad name but to paint everyone with the same brush is a bit unfair. Plus, don't get me started on lawyers because I've worked with them enough to know that they'll suck the last dollar they can out of a client. It's a damned if u do and damned if you don't situation. A good buyer's agent is providing enough information to their buyers to make an informed decision regarding a potential offer as well as not pushing them into it by telling them..."this property won't last" or "we want to get an offer in before someone else does" I've always been more of a consultant for the buyers that I've represented by giving them the tools and information they need to make a decision they can sleep with at night.</blockquote>
No, it is not a stretch. It is fact. Until recently, the last ten years or so, even the courts agreed and consistently ruled in legal disputes that buying agent represented the sellers because they were paid and contracted by the sellers. And the only reason it changed is because the NAR paid huge lobbying money to pass legislation saying that buying agents represent buyers. But legislation does not change reality, it only changes definition.
I am sorry if you do not like this, but it is what it is. Pretending does not change reality. Like everybody else in the world, realtors work for the person who pays them. Folks can pretend otherwise if they do not want to face the fact that they are in reality responsible for every decision and fact involved in a re deal, but they are just pretending. Bottom line, the only person looking out for your interests in an re deal is you.
An attorney, since not being paid on commission, can advise you regarding the purchase contract with only your interests in mind. Any re agents involved always need the deal to close.</blockquote>
So basically the attorney gets paid whether the deal gets done or not. What happens if there are complications or the deal falls through and the buyer needs to move on to another property? That's right...big attorney fees. There is a reason why most people use a realtor instead of an attorney (no out-of-pocket costs to the buyers). For someone like you Awgee, the use of an attorney may be more beneficial but for most people it is better to find a good realtor to present them. Sure the majority of realtors are worthless and greedy, but there are exceptions to the rule. It's best for the buyer to talk to the realtor about what they are looking and if they sense that the realtor is too pushy then they should find themselves another realtor. A good realtor will fight for their buyer to get them the best price. As in other businesses, a realtor's reputation is the thing that gets them referrals and new business.</blockquote>
Absolutely! If I want representation, I want someone who is getting paid whether or not the deal gets done.
Otherwise, they are only, <strong>and I mean ONLY</strong>, representing a closed deal, which may not be in my interest. And mistakenly paying for someone to represent my interest when they only represent their own interest will be much more costly in the long run. Trusting a buyer's agent to negotiate the best price will cost a heck of a lot more than both the agent's commission and the lawyer's fee together.
The important thing is to be realistic and don't kid yourself about who is working for who and what. If I had a dollar for every sales person who said that they wouldn't be in business if they didn't uphold their rep. What a crock!
If a person is getting paid out of the deal, then their interest is the deal. There is nothing immoral or illegal about that, but it is ignorant for whoever is paying not to be realistic about the different parties' motivations. I remember purchasing a home where the listing agent and the seller kept repeating how important it was that they were selling to a nice family. I wanted to gag. I do not care who is paying the agents or how much. I only care about paying as little as possible, and that is real. I do not <strong>TRUST</strong> the others involved in the deal. I trust only that everybody concerned is looking out for their best interest. The original poster could save a lot of trouble if he/she understands that. He/she can deal exclusively with the listing agent as long as they keep it clear that the listing agent is not working for them or has their interest at heart.
When the buying agent gets paid, who pays them? That is bottom line. The buyer's agent is working for whomever is paying them.</blockquote>
I'm not saying that the incentives are misaligned in real estate, including with the buyer's agents, but to say that buyer's agent is working for the seller (since the seller is the one paying the commission) is a bit of a stretch. Again, I'm not gonna make excuses for the idiot realtors that will the good ones a bad name but to paint everyone with the same brush is a bit unfair. Plus, don't get me started on lawyers because I've worked with them enough to know that they'll suck the last dollar they can out of a client. It's a damned if u do and damned if you don't situation. A good buyer's agent is providing enough information to their buyers to make an informed decision regarding a potential offer as well as not pushing them into it by telling them..."this property won't last" or "we want to get an offer in before someone else does" I've always been more of a consultant for the buyers that I've represented by giving them the tools and information they need to make a decision they can sleep with at night.</blockquote>
No, it is not a stretch. It is fact. Until recently, the last ten years or so, even the courts agreed and consistently ruled in legal disputes that buying agent represented the sellers because they were paid and contracted by the sellers. And the only reason it changed is because the NAR paid huge lobbying money to pass legislation saying that buying agents represent buyers. But legislation does not change reality, it only changes definition.
I am sorry if you do not like this, but it is what it is. Pretending does not change reality. Like everybody else in the world, realtors work for the person who pays them. Folks can pretend otherwise if they do not want to face the fact that they are in reality responsible for every decision and fact involved in a re deal, but they are just pretending. Bottom line, the only person looking out for your interests in an re deal is you.
SoCal78_IHB
New member
Some buyers need more hand-holding than others, particularly first-time buyers. They could benefit more from using a buyer's agent. There are also those who will pay for the convenience of having an agent attending inspection with them or in their place and to escort them from property-to-property at their leisure. I'm not sure how that would work with an attorney.
awgee_IHB
New member
I never said there were not good agents. I only made clear what everybody's motivation is in a residential re deal. A buyer's agent is a closed deal. That does not make him/her a bad agent. It does not make them a good agent. And it is wise for the person paying the bills to understand what each person's motivation is, and not to fool themselves into thinking that the buyer's agent's motivation is the buyer's best interest. The agents motivation is getting paid. Period.
awgee_IHB
New member
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1232357111]Some buyers need more hand-holding than others, particularly first-time buyers. They could benefit more from using a buyer's agent. There are also those who will pay for the convenience of having an agent attending inspection with them or in their place and to escort them from property-to-property at their leisure. I'm not sure how that would work with an attorney.</blockquote>
Maybe some folks could benefit from using a buyer's agent. And they certainly could benefit from realizing what the agent's motivation is and who is paying the agent and who the buying agent really works for. There is nothing wrong with having knowledge. Just as there is nothing wrong with using a buyer's agent.
Maybe some folks could benefit from using a buyer's agent. And they certainly could benefit from realizing what the agent's motivation is and who is paying the agent and who the buying agent really works for. There is nothing wrong with having knowledge. Just as there is nothing wrong with using a buyer's agent.
usctrojanman29_IHB
New member
[quote author="awgee" date=1232357362]I never said there were not good agents. I only made clear what everybody's motivation is in a residential re deal. A buyer's agent is a closed deal. That does not make him/her a bad agent. It does not make them a good agent. And it is wise for the person paying the bills to understand what each person's motivation is, and not to fool themselves into thinking that the buyer's agent's motivation is the buyer's best interest. The agents motivation is getting paid. Period.</blockquote>
I'm not disagreeing with you Awgee, it is the seller that pays the buyer's agent and the buyer's agent doesn't get paid until the transaction closes. No one is telling a buyer to go in blindingly trusting an agent, including their agent. Don't fool yourself and think that the attorneys motivation isn't to get paid as much as they can because it is. Just so you know, the lawyers have a more powerful lobbying group than the NAR can ever hope to have.
I'm not disagreeing with you Awgee, it is the seller that pays the buyer's agent and the buyer's agent doesn't get paid until the transaction closes. No one is telling a buyer to go in blindingly trusting an agent, including their agent. Don't fool yourself and think that the attorneys motivation isn't to get paid as much as they can because it is. Just so you know, the lawyers have a more powerful lobbying group than the NAR can ever hope to have.
awgee_IHB
New member
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1232358167][quote author="awgee" date=1232357362]I never said there were not good agents. I only made clear what everybody's motivation is in a residential re deal. A buyer's agent is a closed deal. That does not make him/her a bad agent. It does not make them a good agent. And it is wise for the person paying the bills to understand what each person's motivation is, and not to fool themselves into thinking that the buyer's agent's motivation is the buyer's best interest. The agents motivation is getting paid. Period.</blockquote>
I'm not disagreeing with you Awgee, it is the seller that pays the buyer's agent and the buyer's agent doesn't get paid until the transaction closes. No one is telling a buyer to go in blindingly trusting an agent, including their agent. Don't fool yourself and think that the attorneys motivation isn't to get paid as much as they can because it is. Just so you know, the lawyers have a more powerful lobbying group than the NAR can ever hope to have.</blockquote>
The attorney's motivation is to get paid, but his/her payment is not dependent on a closed deal or the amount paid and thus their interest is not conflicting with the client's.
A person may benefit from the ability to ask a car salesman questions or from knowing what the inventory is if they want to buy a car that day. But, it is silly to think that the car salesman is working for your best interest because you are paying for the car. The car salesman only gets paid if you buy a car, and it really doesn't matter what car you buy, whether you can afford the car, or if you get the car for a good price. And honestly, the salesman benefits when you pay more for the car, just the same as with a commission based realtor. A car salesman has a much better chance of closing a deal if he can get the buyer to pay more, the same as a realtor. I am not complaining. I am just saying it is best if the buyer does not live in denial and think that either the car salesman or the realtor are looking out for the buyer's interest.
I think that if you look at my posts, you will find that I am not denigrating realtors. I am just exposing motivations.
Eyes wide open.
Don't you find it even amusing that real estate sales is the only sales biz where the buyers give credence to the sales person's opinion on price?
I'm not disagreeing with you Awgee, it is the seller that pays the buyer's agent and the buyer's agent doesn't get paid until the transaction closes. No one is telling a buyer to go in blindingly trusting an agent, including their agent. Don't fool yourself and think that the attorneys motivation isn't to get paid as much as they can because it is. Just so you know, the lawyers have a more powerful lobbying group than the NAR can ever hope to have.</blockquote>
The attorney's motivation is to get paid, but his/her payment is not dependent on a closed deal or the amount paid and thus their interest is not conflicting with the client's.
A person may benefit from the ability to ask a car salesman questions or from knowing what the inventory is if they want to buy a car that day. But, it is silly to think that the car salesman is working for your best interest because you are paying for the car. The car salesman only gets paid if you buy a car, and it really doesn't matter what car you buy, whether you can afford the car, or if you get the car for a good price. And honestly, the salesman benefits when you pay more for the car, just the same as with a commission based realtor. A car salesman has a much better chance of closing a deal if he can get the buyer to pay more, the same as a realtor. I am not complaining. I am just saying it is best if the buyer does not live in denial and think that either the car salesman or the realtor are looking out for the buyer's interest.
I think that if you look at my posts, you will find that I am not denigrating realtors. I am just exposing motivations.
Eyes wide open.
Don't you find it even amusing that real estate sales is the only sales biz where the buyers give credence to the sales person's opinion on price?
Mcdonna1980_IHB
New member
I will have to say that I don't believe commissions cause conflicts of interests. I would say the selfishness in a person is the conflict of interest . I could get taken advantage of by the real estate attorney just as likely as I could by a buyer's agent. For example, the attorney could drag out the process and charge me a ton of hours. Or the buyer's agent could haggle me into a bad deal to gain his commission.
I work in a profession where there are commission based advisers and fee-only advisers. I know a number of commission based advisers that do a better job and their clients actually get charged less. I just think a bad person is going to try to screw you regardless of their fee structure.
I work in a profession where there are commission based advisers and fee-only advisers. I know a number of commission based advisers that do a better job and their clients actually get charged less. I just think a bad person is going to try to screw you regardless of their fee structure.
usctrojanman29_IHB
New member
[quote author="awgee" date=1232359905][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1232358167][quote author="awgee" date=1232357362]I never said there were not good agents. I only made clear what everybody's motivation is in a residential re deal. A buyer's agent is a closed deal. That does not make him/her a bad agent. It does not make them a good agent. And it is wise for the person paying the bills to understand what each person's motivation is, and not to fool themselves into thinking that the buyer's agent's motivation is the buyer's best interest. The agents motivation is getting paid. Period.</blockquote>
I'm not disagreeing with you Awgee, it is the seller that pays the buyer's agent and the buyer's agent doesn't get paid until the transaction closes. No one is telling a buyer to go in blindingly trusting an agent, including their agent. Don't fool yourself and think that the attorneys motivation isn't to get paid as much as they can because it is. Just so you know, the lawyers have a more powerful lobbying group than the NAR can ever hope to have.</blockquote>
The attorney's motivation is to get paid, but his/her payment is not dependent on a closed deal or the amount paid and thus their interest is not conflicting with the client's.
A person may benefit from the ability to ask a car salesman questions or from knowing what the inventory is if they want to buy a car that day. But, it is silly to think that the car salesman is working for your best interest because you are paying for the car. The car salesman only gets paid if you buy a car, and it really doesn't matter what car you buy, whether you can afford the car, or if you get the car for a good price. And honestly, the salesman benefits when you pay more for the car, just the same as with a commission based realtor. A car salesman has a much better chance of closing a deal if he can get the buyer to pay more, the same as a realtor. I am not complaining. I am just saying it is best if the buyer does not live in denial and think that either the car salesman or the realtor are looking out for the buyer's interest.
I think that if you look at my posts, you will find that I am not denigrating realtors. I am just exposing motivations.
Eyes wide open.
Don't you find it even amusing that real estate sales is the only sales biz where the buyers give credence to the sales person's opinion on price?</blockquote>
I'm not surprised because most people aren't as real estate savy as you or I or some of the other folks on the forum. The problem and the unfortunate part is that most people are trusting and there are enough crooks (whether it be used car salesmen, attorneys, or realtors) that take advantage of that trust. It all comes down to the ethics of the individual that is assisting that trusting person whether they take advantage of them or not. I just know that KARMA can be a bizatch so I deal with people accordingly plus I was taught in grad school that you should always try to conclude your business deals so that they result in a win-win situation for everyone involved.
I'm not disagreeing with you Awgee, it is the seller that pays the buyer's agent and the buyer's agent doesn't get paid until the transaction closes. No one is telling a buyer to go in blindingly trusting an agent, including their agent. Don't fool yourself and think that the attorneys motivation isn't to get paid as much as they can because it is. Just so you know, the lawyers have a more powerful lobbying group than the NAR can ever hope to have.</blockquote>
The attorney's motivation is to get paid, but his/her payment is not dependent on a closed deal or the amount paid and thus their interest is not conflicting with the client's.
A person may benefit from the ability to ask a car salesman questions or from knowing what the inventory is if they want to buy a car that day. But, it is silly to think that the car salesman is working for your best interest because you are paying for the car. The car salesman only gets paid if you buy a car, and it really doesn't matter what car you buy, whether you can afford the car, or if you get the car for a good price. And honestly, the salesman benefits when you pay more for the car, just the same as with a commission based realtor. A car salesman has a much better chance of closing a deal if he can get the buyer to pay more, the same as a realtor. I am not complaining. I am just saying it is best if the buyer does not live in denial and think that either the car salesman or the realtor are looking out for the buyer's interest.
I think that if you look at my posts, you will find that I am not denigrating realtors. I am just exposing motivations.
Eyes wide open.
Don't you find it even amusing that real estate sales is the only sales biz where the buyers give credence to the sales person's opinion on price?</blockquote>
I'm not surprised because most people aren't as real estate savy as you or I or some of the other folks on the forum. The problem and the unfortunate part is that most people are trusting and there are enough crooks (whether it be used car salesmen, attorneys, or realtors) that take advantage of that trust. It all comes down to the ethics of the individual that is assisting that trusting person whether they take advantage of them or not. I just know that KARMA can be a bizatch so I deal with people accordingly plus I was taught in grad school that you should always try to conclude your business deals so that they result in a win-win situation for everyone involved.
Mcdonna1980_IHB
New member
Thank you everyone for this great informative discussion. I love this blog! But, I'm going to check out now as I'm getting the evil eye from my family for missing game night. I'll keep you posted on what happens with the house.