Irvine vs Surrounding Cities?

[OCtoSV]

I took Saturday and summer classes at Caltech as a kid - it is a uniquely elevated institution. Totally agree with your assessment and top 3.

Really sad about the IUSD math curriculum. Growing up we had friends in Cerritos that lived in that neighborhood by the park where Whitney is, and their kid went to Whitney. But you didn't mention Cerritos is like Fremont in SV - 99.9% Indian. A sneaky nice area and alternative to Irvine.

 

[CogNeuroSci]

Yes, others and I have a leading hypothesis as to why IUSD wanted to dumb down its math and science. We have evidence from several angles.

Care to share your hypothesis with us?  Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

I don't want to state it explicitly, but I will say that if I stated it, all races involved would be angry!

 

[WTTCHMN]

The best schools we have close to Irvine are, in order of rank, Troy, Whitney, and Oxford Academy. All three schools are superior to University HS in Irvine, which is the flagship of the IUSD high schools (the rest, in order of rank, are Northwood, Woodbridge, Irvine (for the pot smokers), and Portola (so far a nesting spot for poor souls wandering in circles).

The best schools in southern California are in San Diego, which has incredible high schools that no one who's not actually there would ever believe could possibly be true, such as Del Norte, Westview, and Canyon Crest Academy. Did you know the top students at Canyon Crest will take over 20 AP classes? Did you know in 2013 (or 2014?), Caltech (the center of the universe) admitted 6 students from Canyon Crest but was suspicious and so sent a guy over to investigate? After his research, for which he concluded that everything was kosher, Caltech added 6 more acceptances (12 total for that year)!

Troy, Whitney, Oxford, & Canyon Crest are all magnet schools.  You can't really make a fair comparison to IUSD high schools which are non-magnet.

 

[CogNeuroSci]

Then let's just compare the present IUSD to the one 15-20 yrs ago. All the reputation IUSD has on rankings websites and Zillow and through the grapevine are outdated.

The top students at University HS also think their school sucks and credit their performances not to their teachers or school programs but to themselves.

 

[sleepy5136]

Come on guys. There are only so many ways to do math? how much of what school teaches you is applicable in your current job? Let?s be real.

 

[CogNeuroSci]

Come on guys. There are only so many ways to do math? how much of what school teaches you is applicable in your current job? Let?s be real.

A ton of stuff. Really.

 

[eyephone]

Then let's just compare the present IUSD to the one 15-20 yrs ago. All the reputation IUSD has on rankings websites and Zillow and through the grapevine are outdated.

The top students at University HS also think their school sucks and credit their performances not to their teachers or school programs but to themselves.

The ratings are based on test scores.

 

[CogNeuroSci]

Then let's just compare the present IUSD to the one 15-20 yrs ago. All the reputation IUSD has on rankings websites and Zillow and through the grapevine are outdated.

The top students at University HS also think their school sucks and credit their performances not to their teachers or school programs but to themselves.

The ratings are based on test scores.

Not just that. Different regions use different tests. Even within a state, a lot of things are looked at. Impossible task really to sort out thousands of high schools. So lots of shortcuts are made.

 

[bones]

Then let's just compare the present IUSD to the one 15-20 yrs ago. All the reputation IUSD has on rankings websites and Zillow and through the grapevine are outdated.

The top students at University HS also think their school sucks and credit their performances not to their teachers or school programs but to themselves.

The IUSD hype machine is real though. There?s people on this board with homes not yet built and kids not yet in school talk about how great IUSD is.

 

[AW]

Come on guys. There are only so many ways to do math? how much of what school teaches you is applicable in your current job? Let?s be real.

Not just math, I hope your doctor don?t have the same mindset, (hellloo, I?m doctor nick?)

 

[CogNeuroSci]

Then let's just compare the present IUSD to the one 15-20 yrs ago. All the reputation IUSD has on rankings websites and Zillow and through the grapevine are outdated.

The top students at University HS also think their school sucks and credit their performances not to their teachers or school programs but to themselves.

The IUSD hype machine is real though. There?s people on this board with homes not yet built and kids not yet in school talk about how great IUSD is.

Yes, I did notice that. That's why I finally decided to chime in. From around 2010 up to now, the IUSD high schools are shit, except for University HS, which is more like higher status feces, like Kopi Luwak coffee.

Note that I haven't made any references to elementary schools. I feel that as long as your young child doesn't go to a messed up elementary school in a ghetto, he or she will have every chance to make it into the highest academic tier in the next rung.

I'm worried about what the IUSD high schools are clearly trying to do: slow down students who want to try to be more advanced. The net result is a lot of straight-A students who are very run-of-the-mill and have no chance (but they and their poor parents don't know it yet) of getting into the best schools that they want. Imagine putting your child into a high school that you thought would position your child for the ultimate gains but actually was designed to impede separation at the top and as a direct result prevent any good chance of getting into the top schools.

 

[CogNeuroSci]

Please don't misunderstand me. Troy, Oxford, Del Norte, Sagehill, Sunny Hills, they all have a bunch of tracks/tiers. So there might not be too much harm in letting your high schooler chill in the lower tracks at some of the best high schools, where they can stay out of the rat race at the top.

The problem is when the student and parents want the best at the top track but that school's AP/IB track doesn't match the rep/commercial.

It's like that famous sales mantra: What you don't know can't hurt you. I would amend that for the present context in the following way: What you don't know can and probably will hurt you; you just don't know it yet.

 

[bones]

Please don't misunderstand me. Troy, Oxford, Del Norte, Sagehill, Sunny Hills, they all have a bunch of tracks/tiers. So there might not be too much harm in letting your high schooler chill in the lower tracks at some of the best high schools, where they can stay out of the rat race at the top.

The problem is when the student and parents want the best at the top track but that school's AP/IB track doesn't match the rep/commercial.

It's like that famous sales mantra: What you don't know can't hurt you. I would amend that for the present context in the following way: What you don't know can and probably will hurt you; you just don't know it yet.

Yup - pretty much that last line. I would agree with your assessment that elementary is FINE. I think some of IUSD's problems start there though and I've touched on them in other posts. They're starting with some of the most prepared/school ready kids in terms of literacy and number sense. Add in all that afterschooling, the schools should be better.

The convo around this always retreats into "I just want my kids to be happy" and "You don't need to go to a top school to be successful". All fine and true. And I guess that's the only response when you don't know what you don't know.

 

[eyephone]

Is this rant about the options after HS?

Please don't misunderstand me. Troy, Oxford, Del Norte, Sagehill, Sunny Hills, they all have a bunch of tracks/tiers. So there might not be too much harm in letting your high schooler chill in the lower tracks at some of the best high schools, where they can stay out of the rat race at the top.

The problem is when the student and parents want the best at the top track but that school's AP/IB track doesn't match the rep/commercial.

It's like that famous sales mantra: What you don't know can't hurt you. I would amend that for the present context in the following way: What you don't know can and probably will hurt you; you just don't know it yet.

 

[CogNeuroSci]

Is this rant about the options after HS?

Please don't misunderstand me. Troy, Oxford, Del Norte, Sagehill, Sunny Hills, they all have a bunch of tracks/tiers. So there might not be too much harm in letting your high schooler chill in the lower tracks at some of the best high schools, where they can stay out of the rat race at the top.

The problem is when the student and parents want the best at the top track but that school's AP/IB track doesn't match the rep/commercial.

It's like that famous sales mantra: What you don't know can't hurt you. I would amend that for the present context in the following way: What you don't know can and probably will hurt you; you just don't know it yet.

Yes, pretty much going to a high school that gives the student a REALLY good chance to get into the top colleges, and the IUSD high schools are no longer designed for that.

 

[eyephone]

Is this rant about the options after HS?

Please don't misunderstand me. Troy, Oxford, Del Norte, Sagehill, Sunny Hills, they all have a bunch of tracks/tiers. So there might not be too much harm in letting your high schooler chill in the lower tracks at some of the best high schools, where they can stay out of the rat race at the top.

The problem is when the student and parents want the best at the top track but that school's AP/IB track doesn't match the rep/commercial.

It's like that famous sales mantra: What you don't know can't hurt you. I would amend that for the present context in the following way: What you don't know can and probably will hurt you; you just don't know it yet.

Yes, pretty much going to a high school that gives the student a REALLY good chance to get into the top colleges, and the IUSD high schools are no longer designed for that.

With all due respect. I think there are other threads that specifically talk about this in detail. That you should take a look at it that might answer your question. That includes someone that interviews candidates from a top tier school. (The process that an alumni interview the candidates. Certain schools top tier schools do this.)  In addition, there are criteria that colleges have that not necessarily is the HS fault. Such as UC admission has a certain percentage of student per HS. The other threads talked about other extra curricular activities that colleges look at not just gpa. I think there are other things that I am missing.

There is only x amount of spots. You can not admit everybody. gg

 

[misme]

I'm worried about what the IUSD high schools are clearly trying to do: slow down students who want to try to be more advanced. The net result is a lot of straight-A students who are very run-of-the-mill and have no chance (but they and their poor parents don't know it yet) of getting into the best schools that they want. Imagine putting your child into a high school that you thought would position your child for the ultimate gains but actually was designed to impede separation at the top and as a direct result prevent any good chance of getting into the top schools.

this is an issue that is not unique to Irvine, but to
public education in California and the nation as a whole?case in point, the Ca proposed math curriculum to eliminate all math tracking until 11th grade, similar proposed changes to virginia math curriculum, proposals in Palo Alto to limit number of AP/honors courses kids can take. 

combined with the growing movement to eliminate standardized testing for college like ACT/SAT and widespread grade inflation on high school transcripts, college admissions is moving towards becoming a randomized lottery process once kids have demonstrated a certain  threshold of achievement.

 

[CogNeuroSci]

Is this rant about the options after HS?

Please don't misunderstand me. Troy, Oxford, Del Norte, Sagehill, Sunny Hills, they all have a bunch of tracks/tiers. So there might not be too much harm in letting your high schooler chill in the lower tracks at some of the best high schools, where they can stay out of the rat race at the top.

The problem is when the student and parents want the best at the top track but that school's AP/IB track doesn't match the rep/commercial.

It's like that famous sales mantra: What you don't know can't hurt you. I would amend that for the present context in the following way: What you don't know can and probably will hurt you; you just don't know it yet.

Yes, pretty much going to a high school that gives the student a REALLY good chance to get into the top colleges, and the IUSD high schools are no longer designed for that.

With all due respect. I think there are other threads that specifically talk about this in detail. That you should take a look at it that might answer your question. That includes someone that interviews candidates from a top tier school. (The process that an alumni interview the candidates. Certain schools top tier schools do this.)  In addition, there are criteria that colleges have that not necessarily is the HS fault. Such as UC admission has a certain percentage of student per HS. The other threads talked about other extra curricular activities that colleges look at not just gpa. I think there are other things that I am missing.

There is only x amount of spots. You can not admit everybody. gg

So in that 2015 thread with WillJoy and Bones and you, there was some misunderstanding with what Bones meant when he said he sees a "humanitarian" trip to a third-world country as inauthentic. Bones simply meant it needs to be a real, extended effort over a number of years that shows real initiative and that the effort is a part of the student's life, not just signing up for a convenient vacation with, say, IvyMax's trips to Nepal or Ningsha, the latter of which is promoted as involving helping the local farmers with construction and modern farming technology but in fact involves students doing nothing but hanging out, digging holes in the ground for toilets that never arrive, and some students going into town to get alcohol or even dates/escorts.

Another similar activity is rocket club or robotics club. Lots of dead weight on those teams, people doing nothing but spectating and socializing/hanging out. Also, those rockets are same ol' same ol' baby stuff year after year after year, nothing close to a real rocket. Same with FBLA, one of the biggest fake academic extracurricular activities. Colleges and Bones can see right through these resume padders as lacking any real substance.

Now there will be applicants with similar activities that ARE deep, "uniquely" unique, and authentic, and people like Bones can easily tell when they see/hear it.

 

[irvine buyer]

The thinking used to be (still is?) that you would have your child/children attend IUSD schools, which would set them up for being accepted to UCLA or Berkeley.  In addition, the parents made their children do the "check the box" activities such as volunteer, music, sports, etc. so their child would stand out.  Thing is, even with all this, the reality is that your child is one of tens of thousands of children nationwide who possess the same qualifications.... all applying for the same few spots at top tier universities nationwide.  If you're trying to get your child into UCLA or Berkeley, I think it's currently easier if you are underprivileged growing up in a poor neighborhood in a non-nuclear family.  Additional spots have been opened up to these applicants and also to people who pay out of state tuition.  If you budget allows, choose the latter route and send your child to a top out of state school.  Your child will still need good grades and a well-rounded application, but you expand your chances of your child getting into a good university. 

Many out of state universities offer grants and scholarships for high achieving students.  For example, my son was offered $11k/year scholarship at Indiana University on top of an admit to their business school (which is highly regarded).  That would have brought his net out of state tuition down to $22k/year.  That's only about $8k more than say UCI or UCSD.  Factor in much lower housing costs in Indiana and the differential is more like $3-4k a year.

The best thing I ever did for my son's college applications is hire a good consultant.  So much of what I knew was inaccurate and I credit her knowledge and guidance to my son being admitted to the Ross business school at University of Michigan.  Ross is on the same level as Haas over at Berkeley.

I've shared our experience with friends that were preparing their children for college.  What surprised me was the level of fixation on attending UCLA or Berkeley.  Credit personal bias but each friend thought their child was extra special and would get accepted into the UC of their choice.  Sadly each was disappointed when their child ended up going to say a UCI or UCSD.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

As bones said, the IUSD hype machine is a significant factor.

Even if the quality is not actually higher than other districts, the parents that have invested into Irvine's overpriced homes have that perception and thus "care" more about their children's education than others. There are programs like IPSF that other districts don't have that make up for shortfalls in budget/extracurricular. There are many tutoring centers in and around Irvine that are populated by the kids of helicopter parents. Sports programs in Irvine have loyal, involved and well-funded boosters.

All of that leads to the "myth" but also gives advantages that aren't necessarily seen in other schools.

Just for sports, I'll give an example... outside of schools sports, there is club. Different club orgs have players from certain schools... more often than not, I'll see the parents of players from Irvine schools at every tournament (and from other schools like Mater Dei or Beckman), but that's not the case for all OC schools.

That parental involvement is a factor that Irvine has an edge in (just like those parents of kids for charter schools). These parents are the same parents who will actually fly their kids to different colleges to tour them (although we won't do that ). They are invested in their kids' success so that drives them to either get into the colleges they want to or even start their own businesses if that's the option.