Irvine boy killed crossing street
- Thread starter iacrenter
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I hope you are never in the situation where you need to make such a judgement call. If you are put into this situation, though with your child front of you... Your choice is very likely going to be different.
Even for something that may look minor, calling 911 is the right thing to do so that they can assess the situation. At some point I had called them after an accident at the park. Slip and fall with lots of blood but thankfully it was a minor injury only. An EMT patched it up with some gauze and tape and off we went to the hospital by ourselves. When I was thanking them I was a bit apologetic for calling them for what ended up something minor. They insisted that that was still the right move.
I'm not an expert, and I'm actually very curious about medi vac, but I'm sure saddleback hospital has a helicopter pad and a children's ICU. And I highly doubt the ability to pay is considered when the helicopter is called in, seeing as time is of the essence in this situation. Again, I'm no expert and don't know if this would have even applied to this situation.
I would imagine that is true everywhere. How cold blooded people are will determine who lives and gets treated in those situations.
Sunday at 5 PM probably not a lot of traffic. Probably would have went by ambulance to either Mission or Global (or maybe CHOC since that is where he eventually went).
"Always" is a bit absolute... If I was to give advice and not in the situation, it would certainly be to wait for the ambulance. It's much easier to say this if you've never been in such a situation. It's much easier to make this decision about a stranger.traceimage said:
I hope you are never in the situation where you need to make such a judgement call. If you are put into this situation, though with your child front of you... Your choice is very likely going to be different.
YellowFever
New member
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iacrenter
Well-known member
Hopefully no one on TI ends up in this same situation. But if there is any good out of this tragedy, people should understand the importance of calling 911 first. This will be the right decision a vast majority of time.
Although your gut instincts tell you to grab and go, this would be bad medical practice--whether it's your child or not.
This is a sad situation for everyone. I don't blame the parents for making a difficult decision. Even if they had called 911 there is no guarantee the child would have survived. My prayers and condolences go out to the family.
Although your gut instincts tell you to grab and go, this would be bad medical practice--whether it's your child or not.
This is a sad situation for everyone. I don't blame the parents for making a difficult decision. Even if they had called 911 there is no guarantee the child would have survived. My prayers and condolences go out to the family.
iacrenter said:
Even for something that may look minor, calling 911 is the right thing to do so that they can assess the situation. At some point I had called them after an accident at the park. Slip and fall with lots of blood but thankfully it was a minor injury only. An EMT patched it up with some gauze and tape and off we went to the hospital by ourselves. When I was thanking them I was a bit apologetic for calling them for what ended up something minor. They insisted that that was still the right move.
socal78
Well-known member
I recently became re-certified in CPR / First Aid / and AED for both children & adults. I was trained by a paramedic here in O.C.
Re: Retaliatory lawsuits: All 50 states have Good Samaritan laws here. No need to fear as any litigious retaliation will not hold up.
Re: Not touching someone else's child. When an adult is unconscious, you have what's called "Implied Consent". That means you can assume if the person was able to speak for themselves, they would want you to help save their life. If that person is a child, you need to seek permission from their parent IF they are there. You can say to the parent: "I know CPR / First Aid. Will you let me help your child?" Now, let's say, the parent is nowhere to be found. HELP THE CHILD. Do CPR. Perform First Aid. If the parent re-appears, you stop, and ask for permission to continue.
Re: Moving an injured person. The only time you should move an injured person is to move them out of immediate harm's way (ex: fire) but only after making sure it is safe for you to enter the premises first. Their spine must be kept in alignment. You could further injure or even kill an injured person by moving them in an inappropriate way. I'm not going to give specific instructions on how to do these maneuvers because anyone who wants to know should take a class from a professional. If the person is not in immediate harm's way (fire, etc.) pointing to someone & ordering them to call 911 or dialing 911 yourself is the only reasonable step to take. Never yell into a crowd: "Someone call 911!" What happens is everyone assumes someone else is doing it - then nobody does it. Point directly to a single individual & say: "YOU. Call 911." Or do it yourself before starting CPR.
Sadly, these parents may not have known how to handle an emergency in this country. Imo, one of the best things you can do is prepare yourself. I took classes when we decided to try to get pregnant so I could save my baby from choking / dying. The 1st 10 minutes are the most crucial when saving a life. 911 can often be on the scene in just a few minutes but in some cases, it may take more than 10 min. Being able to start CPR or First Aid yourself, at the scene, may make the difference between life or death.
Re: Retaliatory lawsuits: All 50 states have Good Samaritan laws here. No need to fear as any litigious retaliation will not hold up.
Re: Not touching someone else's child. When an adult is unconscious, you have what's called "Implied Consent". That means you can assume if the person was able to speak for themselves, they would want you to help save their life. If that person is a child, you need to seek permission from their parent IF they are there. You can say to the parent: "I know CPR / First Aid. Will you let me help your child?" Now, let's say, the parent is nowhere to be found. HELP THE CHILD. Do CPR. Perform First Aid. If the parent re-appears, you stop, and ask for permission to continue.
Re: Moving an injured person. The only time you should move an injured person is to move them out of immediate harm's way (ex: fire) but only after making sure it is safe for you to enter the premises first. Their spine must be kept in alignment. You could further injure or even kill an injured person by moving them in an inappropriate way. I'm not going to give specific instructions on how to do these maneuvers because anyone who wants to know should take a class from a professional. If the person is not in immediate harm's way (fire, etc.) pointing to someone & ordering them to call 911 or dialing 911 yourself is the only reasonable step to take. Never yell into a crowd: "Someone call 911!" What happens is everyone assumes someone else is doing it - then nobody does it. Point directly to a single individual & say: "YOU. Call 911." Or do it yourself before starting CPR.
Sadly, these parents may not have known how to handle an emergency in this country. Imo, one of the best things you can do is prepare yourself. I took classes when we decided to try to get pregnant so I could save my baby from choking / dying. The 1st 10 minutes are the most crucial when saving a life. 911 can often be on the scene in just a few minutes but in some cases, it may take more than 10 min. Being able to start CPR or First Aid yourself, at the scene, may make the difference between life or death.
YellowFever
New member
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This thread has been extremely helpful. I live in Woodbury and can see the idea of racing to the new Hoag emergency room at Sand Canyon as a valid option but this thread helped me realize that it is better to call 911.
I printed out the address and a small map for UCI, Global Chapman, and CHOC to keep in wallets and cars. To be more informed, is there a way to know which trauma center handles which type of emergency best? Who helps the EMT figure out where to take the patient? What guidelines do they have and can we have those guidelines as well?
I printed out the address and a small map for UCI, Global Chapman, and CHOC to keep in wallets and cars. To be more informed, is there a way to know which trauma center handles which type of emergency best? Who helps the EMT figure out where to take the patient? What guidelines do they have and can we have those guidelines as well?
YellowFever
New member
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Ready2Downsize
Well-known member
Depends on staffing, and what is going on in each hospital (bad nights can have multiple traumas) and distance. A bad accident can even have patients go to different hospitals. They have helipads and emergency staff that accompanies traumas to the hospital so traffic isn't a death sentence.
Sometimes they are down for traumas if they can't accept any.
Orange County Global (not Chapman Global) is a trauma center. Chapman is more of a community hospital.
UCI and Global get more knife and gun club members than Mission.
Sometimes they are down for traumas if they can't accept any.
Orange County Global (not Chapman Global) is a trauma center. Chapman is more of a community hospital.
UCI and Global get more knife and gun club members than Mission.
Ready2Downsize
Well-known member
In the U.S. claim payouts are lower for deaths than for someone who has lifetime medical needs.
irvineshadow
New member
YellowFever said:
I'm not an expert, and I'm actually very curious about medi vac, but I'm sure saddleback hospital has a helicopter pad and a children's ICU. And I highly doubt the ability to pay is considered when the helicopter is called in, seeing as time is of the essence in this situation. Again, I'm no expert and don't know if this would have even applied to this situation.
Ready2Downsize said:
I would imagine that is true everywhere. How cold blooded people are will determine who lives and gets treated in those situations.
iacrenter
Well-known member
Helicopters are not always the fastest way to transport a patient. You need to consider multiple factors: incident location, weather, traffic, availability of ground vs air transport, and severity of injury. Although the actual flight time might be shorter, you need to add time for dispatch, flight time to location, pickup time at landing zone, and then flight time to the hospital. In many cases, ground transport with lights and sirens makes more sense.
irvineshadow
New member
I might be thinking of mission hospital instead. Just goes to show how complicated this gets.
Ready2Downsize
Well-known member
iacrenter said:
Sunday at 5 PM probably not a lot of traffic. Probably would have went by ambulance to either Mission or Global (or maybe CHOC since that is where he eventually went).
Ready2Downsize
Well-known member
It's not just about having a helipad. You have to have the staff IN HOUSE and available to deal with a trauma. Many hospitals have staff like ultrasound techs only on call at night or weekends when they only need to do emergency scans and can't spare other staff like respiratory to respond to a trauma and be there for extended amounts of time. They have to have lots of blood on hand in the blood bank and staff to perform labwork in a major hurry, OR staff in house, not just on call. Hospitals run skeleton crews at nights and weekends and many can't spare their staff to handle traumas. Then you also need MDs who specialize in trauma care and RNs who are used to dealing with that high stress care day in and day out. You don't want to have staff that has to think thru steps to take. You want them to be able to perform their duties in a hurry, like it's second nature and who are used to working together, staff that can anticipate what the doc is going to call for and has it ready, not someone bumbling around trying to find this or that.
Very high stress dealing with traumas where time is of the essence.
Not all hospitals can handle it because they aren't staffed or trained for it.
It would be like putting together a bike for your kid. You know u can do it, you've done it before but you have to lay out all the pieces and look at the instructions to remind yourself the exact steps because it was a while ago since you put together another bike. You don't want that if someone's life depends on it.
And all traumas are not the same. There are accidents, shootings/knifings, electrocutions, accidental dismemberments, car accidents with pregnant ladies or kids involved, burns, etc.
Very high stress dealing with traumas where time is of the essence.
Not all hospitals can handle it because they aren't staffed or trained for it.
It would be like putting together a bike for your kid. You know u can do it, you've done it before but you have to lay out all the pieces and look at the instructions to remind yourself the exact steps because it was a while ago since you put together another bike. You don't want that if someone's life depends on it.
And all traumas are not the same. There are accidents, shootings/knifings, electrocutions, accidental dismemberments, car accidents with pregnant ladies or kids involved, burns, etc.
usctrojancpa
Well-known member
This thread has given me a whole new level of respect for trauma medical professionals.